msr-mjer distribution in usa

[ulvulv]

As a european iaidoka, I am quite ignorant about how things are in the american sword-community, and have no other knowledge of things "over there" than I get from internet and written sources, and I have seen some american iaidokas on japanese and international seminars.
I am wondering about the distrubution of msr and mjer-practise. Is there little or no msr practise in the states? It seem like it is always mjer that is mentioned in different forums, and I have noticed more mjer-people "forumiting" than msr-people. Is that an indication of less dojo-activity?(it should be an indication of more activity, right?):)

Is msr only practised as a secundary bonus for persistent znkr-iaidokas who have chewed on seiteiai for a decade or two, or does the ryu have a primary life of its own?

[Charles Mahan]

Well. I can speak to the MJER side I suppose, or at least for the ZNIR/Seitokai side of the equation. In the states, there are essentially 5 primary groups.

The Dojo(Yamashita Dojo)
Denton, Texas/Chiba, Japan
http://www.dentondojo.com
John Ray

Eishin-kai Dojo
Woodbridge, Virginia
http://www.eishinkai.homestead.com/
Greg Huff

HokuSei Dojo
Seattle, Washington
Scott Irey

New England Iaido Kyokai
Boston, Massachusettes
Warren Stanley

Nishi Kaigan Dojo
Berkeley, California
http://www.iaido.org
Andrej Diamendstein

All of these instructors are between godan and nanadan kyoshi. Some of them need to get to Japan and test already. Hint hint. You know who you are ;)

In addition to these major schools there are several other sattelite schools and study groups springing up around the country. I only know of the one's associated with Ray-sensei. These include the Clear Lake Iaido south of Houston, and led by Emily Egan(http://www.clear-lake-iaido.org).

There are quite a few students between these various dojo and so ZNIR/Seitokai MJER is gaining a voice online.

There is quite a ZNIR MJER presence in Canada as well. Checkout the Canadian Iaido Association web page at http://www.iaido.ca

In addition to the ZNIR MJER presence in the US And Canada, there is representation from at least two other branches of MJER. The branch led by Sekiguchi-sensei has a dojo in Miami www.miami-komei-jyuku.org. Perhaps the largest group in terms of enrollment in this country is the Shimabukuro group, which I'm afraid I don't have a link for.

I have heard of a few ZNKR affiliated dojos teaching MJER, but know nothing about them, and I have heard of some ZNKR affiliated MSR dojos as well, but again I know nothing about them. I'm sure someone else will chime in.

[Charles Mahan]

I just realized I had information on which instructors the instructors trained under.

Huff-sensei - Maruyama-sensei of Saga, Kyushu, Japan
Irey-sensei - Adachi-sensei and Esaka-sensei
Ray-sensei - Yamashita Noboru-sensei and Tanida Hiroshi-sensei
Stanley-sensei - Honami Koji-sensei
Diamendstein-sensei - Sabatier-sensei and Esaka-sensei

I gotta start paying more attention to detail :D I wrote about Emily's school but forgot to mention that there is another sattelite school in Baton Rouge and one in Chicago.

[Ric Flinn]

Hi Roar,

Being an MSR practitioner in the states, I can agree with you that we're in the minority, but there's plenty of MSR clubs around, many of which are "standalone" clubs, not associated with kendo clubs. One of the problems is that MJER seems to have a lot of different organizations focused on promoting iai, while MSR has very few. The ZNIR, for example, doesn't really exclude MSR but its membership seems predominantly MJER. If they belong to any organization at all, MSR clubs usually end up tied to the ZNKR/AUSKF, kendo organizations which provide (IMHO) poor support for iai. There's also the SanShinKai MSR federation on the East Coast, but I know little about this group. Several MSR groups I know about don't place a great emphasis on seitei (if any seitei at all), but I also think there are groups that do mainly seitei with little bits of MSR thrown in.

I was under the impression that the ratio of MSR to MJER was a lot closer to 50/50 in Japan, so I'm not sure what the reason is for the big difference in the US. Canada seems to have the same bias in numbers towards MJER, even with better support for iai from the CKF. One advantage, though, is at the Spring iai seminar in Guelph, us MSR folk usually have a much greater student/sensei ratio. :)

[Diane Mirro]

Although I do not currently practice MSR, the following are just some of the friends and acquaintances of mine that teach/practice Muso Shinden Ryu regularly in the US, mostly through the All US Kendo Federation (by no means a complete list):

Washington State: Tatsuhiko Konno, Pat Murasako, Dick Anderson, Tom Bollinger

Oregon: Robert Stroud

Tennessee: John Aquadro, Rich Babins

Minnesota: Karl Peterson (through his sensei, whose name escapes me at the moment)

New York: Shozo Kato, John Prough

Maryland: Rick Polland-independent of the AUSKF

[DCPan]

Hi,

I don't know about the rest of the country, but just in the Pacfic Northwest, there at least 5 MSR groups associated with the PNKF (Musokai, Everett Kendo & Iaido Dojo, Tacoma Kendo & Iaido Dojo).

At the Seattle Kendo Dojo, Iai is practices for 30 min before practice. That makes 4 places.

Obukan in Oregon, that makes 5.

Above are all PNKF-affliated.

For non-PNKF, there's Aikido Kokikai Seattle.

There's 3 more by-invitational-only MSR private study groups.

These are just the ones I'm aware of.

I suspect perhaps the reason MSR isn't heard as much on the net is most of those people don't go through the online forums as much.

:D

[FastEd]

Originally posted by Charles Mahan

I have heard of a few ZNKR affiliated dojos teaching MJER, but know nothing about them, and I have heard of some ZNKR affiliated MSR dojos as well, but again I know nothing about them. I'm sure someone else will chime in.

US
From a quick, internet based overview i've have noted around 32 dojo's teaching Iai under the AUSKF. This is a rough number and not based on any first hand information, just an overview of the AUSKF dojo list. The Koryu practiced is not always listed, but MSR appears to be the main style practiced (Note: just from what I have heard). (Question) Is their an east/west divide in the AUSKF with respect to Koryu. With MJER mainly in the east and MSR in the west? What is the most widely practiced style by numbers?

Canada
In Canada, there are around 15 dojo's throughout the country, MSR is dominate in the East and is in Ontario and Alberta, but MJER appears to be the main style practiced (by numbers).

(***Note, this is just for Kendo Federation affiliated clubs, and does not represent the total number of poeple practicing Iai in other federations.)

[ulvulv]

Nice and lenghty answers so far

quote:
"There's also the SanShinKai MSR federation on the East Coast, but I know little about this group. Several MSR groups I know about don't place a great emphasis on seitei (if any seitei at all), but I also think there are groups that do mainly seitei with little bits of MSR thrown in."

A specification of my original question.
As I have understood there are plenty of mjer-clubs who has a good purely koryu-connection to japan, and dont do zenkenreniai.
It would be interesting to know for sure if there are pure msr-dojos that do msr as the primary activity, not as a spinoff from kendo or zenkenreniai. Second,it would be interesting to know which japanese teachers they are connected too.

[yohimbo]

more information about MJER:


SHI SEI KAI DOJO:
MIAMI KOMEI JYUKU.
Instructor: Yaiquimi A. Pla (Sekiguchi Seichin) - Sekiguchi Komei sensei
Muso jikiden Eishin Ryu Iaijutsu Komei Jyuku (academy of the master Komei)
Jikishin Kage Ryu Naginata-jutsu -Shimizu Nobuko sensei (17 head master Akiko Todani).
SEUSKF member.
9361 SW BIRD ROAD miami Fl 33173.



MAUI KOMEI JYUKU
Master Robert Montgomery (Sekiguchi Kenshin) -Sekiguchi Komei sensei


Texas> James Gilliland sensei- master Sekiguchi Komei -sensei (master Walt Bushey's uchideshi. check www. katsujin. org)

[Scott Irey]

There are far more MSR practitioners in the US than MJER practitioners. MJER people jsut seem to be more active on the internet in the US so we give the impression of being a much larger group than we really are. See David Pans post....I for instance am outnumbered 5 to 1 here in the Seattle area :)

Regards,

[Charles Mahan]

I need to post a couple of addendums to my previoius posts. Not all of the instructors above are necessarily members of the Seitokai organization currently, which is a distinct organization from the ZNIR. The organizational ties can be very confusing.

The other correction is to point out that Scott is not a regular student of Esaka-sensei. My misunderstanding on that one. I got the instructor info from a handout from the Second Annual Texas Iaido Embukai. Turns out I misunderstood that bit. Not entirely impossible that I've goofed some other details too.

[Diane Mirro]

Now there's a match-up I'd LOVE to see--should we start an Internet rumor: "Irey challenges all comers--claims he can win with both hands tied behind his back and blindfolded..."

Sorry--I couldn't resist. I have a feeling I'm going to pay for this...but it will have been worth it...

[Scott Irey]

Hmmmm....maybe I need to reinstate those hazing rituals.....

[Diane Mirro]

Why sea salt, you ask? It's healthier...

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. Any idea of the numbers of practitioners of the two arts in the US--I've been told ~400-500 members of the AUSKF practice Iai, mostly MSR and some MJER...

What about the independent schools?

[Charles Mahan]

Between the Denton dojo and the 3 sattelite schools we have around 40 to 45 I think, perhaps a few more. I believe Diamendstein sensei has quite a few more than we do. I'm not even gonna hazard a guess as to the other instructors, but I'd say the total associated with the 5 instructors listed in my post above would be around 150 to 200 or so.

[hyaku]

Huff - Maruyama Sensei. Who is Maruyama Sensei?

I can put a face to almost every name who does or did Iaido in Saga but not this one. Could be the old gentleman I sometimes use to give lift to for ZNIR events and gradings.

Rest assured if I knew there was such a gentleman in my area I would have made every effort to trian with him.


Association wise we only have ZNKR here. As a ZNIR senior in another ryu I travel to Fukuoka for demos and the grading panel.

Hyakutake Colin

[Charles Mahan]

From http://www.eishinkai.homestead.com/Huffhistory.html


After several years, Mr. Huff realized that he would have to go to Japan in order to make further progress in Iaido so in July of 1987 he reenlisted in the Navy and arranged for an assignment in Japan. He stayed in Japan for 12 years studying the Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu style of Iaido, first under Hon'ami Sensei (Hanshi, Hachidan) of Kamakura and for the last several years under Maruyama Sensei (Hanshi, Judan) of Saga City.

[ulvulv]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by hyaku
[B]Huff - Maruyama Sensei. Who is Maruyama Sensei?

I can put a face to almost every name who does or did Iaido in Saga but not this one. Could be the old gentleman I sometimes use to give lift to for ZNIR events and gradings.




http://www.eishinkai.homestead.com/files/Maruyama1.jpg

?

[Ralutin]

The Northern and Sourthern California Iaido Associations (NCIA and SCIA) here in California practice ZNKR seitei iai with Muso Shinden Ryu as our koryu. Our head sensei are Takeshi Yamaguchi sensei and Ichiro Murakami sensei. Both studied under Torao Mori sensei back in the 1960s and are iaido committee members of the AUSKF along with Konno sensei from PNKF and Kato sensei from New York. Between the NCIA and SCIA, there are approximately 20-25 dedicated iaidoka. I know one lady from the NCIA who practices Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu from when she lived back on the East Coast. Otherwise, the rest of us do Muso Shinden Ryu.

-Dennis Ralutin
Southern California Iaido Association