Hokushinkai Aikibujutsu/ Aiki Sen'yokai/ Tanemura Katsumi/ Edward Smith (Burns)

[Nathan Scott]

This group has recently come to my attention. Some pretty lofty and interesting claims.

One funny thing, which is probably a coincidence, is that we have another thread in this forum about "Chokushin Aikijujutsu":

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9838

Chokushin Aikijujutsu founded by Tamura and Hokushin Aikibujutsu founded by Tanemura. Hmmm...

Anyway, here is a copy of the following link (in case it were to change for any reason):

http://tanemura.freeyellow.com

Tanemura, Katsumi: Soke of Hokushin Aiki-Bujutsu

Soke Tanemura began studying Bujutsu in 1928, in the Yoshin Ryu style of Jujutsu and Kodokan Judo. From 1939 to 1948, he was the senior student of Yoshida, Kotaro in the art of daito Ryu Aiki-Jujutsu. He worked with Yoshida Sensei in the publishing business and served as his uchi-desi for several years. He was introduced to Yoshida Sensei by Mr. Tanemura, Kenji. Tanemura Sensei also studied under Sagawa, Yukiyoshi in Tokyo, and Horikawa, Kodo (pre-kodokai). He left due to politics. From 1950 to 1955, Tanemura sensei studied or researched the tecjniques of Takenouchi Ryu Jujutsu as well as those of the Tenjin Shinyo Ryu and Shin no Shindo ryu. He developed Hokushin Aiki-Bujutsu as a system of Sogo-Bujutsu or integrated martial arts.

Hokushin Aiki-Bujutsu promotes the use of Fast, Fluid, and Practical Waza based onthe principles of Aiki In Yo Ho. It utilizes both Goho (hard method) and Juho (soft method) techniques. This Ryu specializes in the following: ATEMI WAZA- SPECIAL STRIKES/KICKS TO VITAL POINTS KATAME WAZA- JOINT LOCKING,PINNING, AND TWISTING NAGE WAZA- HUNDREDS OF BODY THROWS,JOINT LOCK THROWS, FLYING THROWS SHIME WAZA- SPECIAL CHOKES KOSSHI JUTSU- MUSCLE DESTRUCTION BUKI WAZA- WEAPONS (TANTO,YARI,KEN JUTSU,HANBO,JO,KUSARI FUNO,JUTTE, AND HOJO) This Ryu retains the following Daito Ryu material: Hiden Mokuroku, Aiki No Jutsu, Hiden Ogi, Goshin Yo No Te. Tanemura Sensei last visited Yoshida, Kotaro in 1953, and his total involvement in the Daito Ryu lasted 14 years of direct study. This combined with his varied experience in other Ryu of Jujutsu and Aiki-Jujutsu made for a solid technical base from which to draw upon. Hokushin Aiki-Bujutsu is Taught through the Aiki Sen'Yo Kai by the only person to receive the Kaidensho from Tanemura Sensei- Shihan Edward J. Smith. The Sen'Yo Kai is a division of the Kokusai Jujutsu Kai and is open to teachers and students of Jujutsu, Aiki-Jujutsu,Hapkido,Classical Judo, Aikido, and Kempo Jutsu. For details:

Kokusai Jujutsu Kai
1231 Airport Rd # 189
Allentown, Pa 18103-1311 kokusaijujutsu@hotmail.com http:www.wsites.com/bujutsu98/index.html [dead link]

Email: Kokusaijujutsu@hotmail.com

I'm familiar with the Kokusai Jujutsukai and Tanemura Katsumi. I believe there has been some discussion on this group elsewhere on e-budo, and I think I have some video somewhere of Tanemura doing Jujutsu (I'll check later).

According to the following link, that came up in a search:

Hokushinkai forum: Members [Profile]

Nickname: Aiki
Name: Edward J. Smith
Location: Allentown , Pa

Interests: Bujutsu, Reading, Shodo, Movies, Hiking, Travel

E-mail: kokusaijujutsu@hotmail.com

Comments:

*Started Jujutsu in 1968 under Nakamura, Kenji

* Studied Aiki Bujutsu, Judo, and Jujutsu under Tanemura, Katsumi in Phila, Pa from 1971 - 1991.

* Jan 10, 1991 Received Menkyo Kaiden in Hokushin Aiki Bujutsu.

* Received Shichidan (7th Dan) in Judo from the United States Judo Association.

* Founded Aiki Bujutsu Hokushinkai based on the Aiki Bujutsu Senyo'kai of Tanemura Sensei.

Updated 9/7/2001

It says here that Smith founded the Hokushinkai, not Tanemura. So does that mean that he gave himself Menkyo Kaiden after quiting the Aikibujutsu Senyo'kai of Tanemura? Hard to guess from this.

Hokushinkai discussion forum can be found here:

http://groups.msn.com/hokushikai/

Anyone have any politely phrased comments to offer regarding this group and their claims to Daito ryu?

Regards,

[rickfine]

A picture is worth a thousand words, but the photos on their discussion forum left me speechless. I spotted no characteristic depictions from the hiden mokuroku, though they purport to follow it. And where did the jutte techniques come from? According to Kondo Sensei, Daito-ryu never incorporated the jutte since law enforcement officials comprised a wholly separate social class than that from which Daito-ryu evolved. Lastly, what about that black wardrobe from the second-hand ninja store? I'm not buying the connection, at least based on these representations.

[Sam17]

The pictures in their dojo scream ninja. I don’t know many koryu that use black dogi, maybe Sokaku was secretly a ninja, I don’t know. They also seem to have taken some pictures from “conversations with daito ryu masters” to put up on their page.
If anyone on this site is qualified to answer, what qualifications did the soke receive? and what other Aiki jujutsu systems did he study?. As I understand it there is only one jujutsu school that used the name aiki and that was daito ryu.
:nin:

Cheers

[Ron Tisdale]

I've heard of a guy in Phila. supposedly teaching Daito ryu...I believe an Eric Alianes (sp) who used to post occationally studied with one of his students. While I've never met any of these guys in person, from what I've seen of their posts I have my doubts...

Of course, seeing them in person might change the tale...I'll take a look at the web site.

Ron

[Ron Tisdale]

I think I'll reserve comment for a bit...

Nathan, I see the claims of linneage with some pretty impressive folk...is there any way to verify these claims? Don't other groups beside the mainline keep pretty accurate training records?

Ron Tisdale

[Sam17]

Ron,
I think most students of Sokaku who taught seriously kept good records of their students, defiantly Sagawa Sensei and I also believe Kodo Sensei. So if he did train under these two teachers it would be recorded, however, it would take the likes of Mr Pranin to be allowed to check these ledgers.

Cheers

[CEB]

The clothing is of no concern to me. Black is functional. Black is a more slimming colour. Everything goes with black.

Not seeing much of a resemblance to what I have seen of the hiden mokuroku of daito ryu is a little suprising. My question is what does the family name 'Burns' in parenthesis have to do with the thread?

[James Williams]

Nathan,

If I remember correctly this gentlemen called me quite some time ago saying that his art was related to Yanagi ryu and that his teacher had been trained by Yoshida Kotaro. I tried to follow up with him and the information, however inquiry brought no response. There were some other oddities however I can't remember them off of the top of my head.

James

[Nathan Scott]

Thanks for the contributions guys. I figured I'd see what we came up with independently before approaching the group.

There are apparently other threads about this subject here on e-budo. One of them is:

Question.
http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3269

In it, MC Busman stated:

"I did have contact with this man, who alternately called himself Dave Thomas, Edward Smith, Edward Burns, and so on. And I absolutely stand by what I wrote before in the Bad Budo forum. "

Interesting stuff in that thread in fact. I recognize Dave Thomas from the Wendy's hamburger commercials.

I checked the video tape I have, and it was in fact Tanemura Shoto of Genbukan fame. But I did notice that the organization that Tanemura was using for his jujutsu group is/was "Kokusai Jujutsu Renmei". Not that far from the "Kokusai Jujutsukai" of Tanemura Katsumi.

Just as random thoughts, it occurs to me that someone wishing to borrow/create names could do so pretty easily from various publications and arts. Tanemura is obvious. Katsumi happens to be the name of "Katsumi Toda", a pen name used by David Chambers to write a number of ninja books years ago, when books like that were popular. Kenji happens to be the first name of Yoshida Kenji, Yoshida Kotaro's son and teacher to Don Angier. Interesting.

We could try to contact the Kodokai & Sagawa dojo in Japan to confirm/deny their claims of "Tanemura Katsumi", but if I'm going to contact them, it won't be to ask about this guy. I think this can be fleshed out pretty safely short of this, personally.

The arts they list that Tanemura supposedly studied are real though, including Shin no Shindo ryu.

Regards,

[Nathan Scott]

Oops, looks like I'm a little late on the Wendy's reference (maybe I'll go get a frosty later in honor of this discussion).

Here is another interesting thread on this:

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2890

In it, Edward Smith (login name: what) offers a reply, the meat of which is:

3) Someone suggested that I was using a fake name for my Sensei derived from the name Hatsumi. An individual suggested this and everyone seemed to jump aboard. This is an outright lie! My teacher used several names including Okazaki Shuji, Tanemura Kazumi, and yes- Tanemura Katsumi. I recently took a trip with
students of mine (some who knew my teacher) to Phila Chinatown and met with individuals who knew my teacher on a personal basis. It was nice to hear them speak with my students about his character and uniqueness.

The idea of putting a k in front of Hatsumi in order to make up some new name is silly and would be funny, if not for the fact people actually took this serious.

4) The website that was up for the organization that I was going to develop is located at

http://welcome.to/kokusaijujutsu

[link fixed. Though the page title remains, the page was taken down. NS]

This site has not been used for sometime and when I find out the location of the former webmaster- it will be taken down. The web designer was named Karen and was recommended by my ex-wife Francine.

I would welcome the oppritunity to discuss this situation with individuals via private e-mail as I have much more to say. As I stated earlier, I was inattentive to several important areas but I never stole, defrauded, or tried to make up some false history for myself. Several of my students are advanced practitioners of other arts and involved in law enforcement - and they have remained faithful during some very trying times- and this was due to the solid curriculum offered.
I welcome anyone to attend one of our events for free and to feel first hand the fluidity, power, and comprehensiveness of what we teach. I do this in order to clear up many of the misconceptions surrounding these issues.

In the future I would like to build a website displaying our history, displaying various documents from my teacher, with photos,etc. I shall refrain from doing this until the welcome.to site is removed and much of this situation is resolved. I have nothing to hide and again I welcome the oppritunity to discuss this with those involved.

Thank you for both your valuable time and attention. To those who were adversely affected, I apologize and please feel free to contact me asap. I have been able to stabalize my families situation, my financial status, and I wish to rectify any harm done.

Anyone with anyother questions, please feel free to contact me with any questions. Thank you very much for your time and attention.
__________________
Edward J. Smith

The response to this was:

The one thing I do know from my own dealings with you and from your dealings with other martial artists known to me is that you are neither truthful or reliable. You promise one thing, and then do not follow through with it. You have created ridiculous tale after tale to try and excuse your past actions, created alias after alias to defend yourself. "Someone died...my dog ate it...my wife ate it...someone else died...I'm a victim...I'm innocent..." Excuse after excuse. No, I don't think anybody will buy your conning anymore, not here, at least.

Well, I for one would love to see this new site. The old "welcome.to" site is down.

Also, I tried calling Robert Caprari (State Trooper) just now, but the operator said that he was gone for the day (works 8am to 4pm).

Man, this subject is pretty thick with drama.

[Eric Joyce]

E-Budo drama definitely. Seems a little testy.

[jstyle]

My name is Sergeant Craig E. Johnson and I've studied with Sensei Smith for several years. I also had the pleasure of being his live- in student for several months. The times I studied with Sensei Smith were indeed turbulent ones but I have always trusted him with every part of my being. I'm not visiting this sight to sling dirt or to point fingers I am merely stating facts. I started in traditional karate, then moved on to kickboxing and Hapkido under Master Kates. I dabbled in judo and other arts but wasn't greatly impressed. It wasn't until I started my studies under Sensei Smith that I truly found my martial calling. His grasp of theory and impeccable understanding of the arts in general first impressed me. His traditional approach to the art and his immense skills kept me in Aiki and I will never stray from this path. To see his named misused and marred has saddened me greatly but it's to be expected I guess. In this modern world of cyber-critics everyone gets alittle dogged out. I'm just here to show my support for Sensei Smith thank you for allowing this. If anyone would like to contact me my e-mail address is heavenearth33@hotmail.com. Everyone have a great day and enjoy the power, pleasure and glory that is Aiki.

SGT Craig E Johnson

[Nathan Scott]

Hello Mr. Johnson,

Thanks for your contribution. All points of view are welcome.

I would point out though that Mr. Smith's abilities are not in question, but primarily the unsubstantiated background claims, and apparently some aspects of conduct. Opinions about ability and knowledge are always going to be subjective, so it is impossible to really debate. Issues of lineage, background and ranking/licensing should be rather clear cut though.

Regards,

[don]

Originally posted by jstyle
SGT Craig E Johnson

Sergeant of what?

Thanks.

[jstyle]

Sorry about that I'm so used to being in the military I forgot to clarify what branch. I am a Sergeant in the United States Army and I'm currently stationed at Fort Knox.

[wagnerphysed]

So...any news on a new web-site or any other source of information regarding the individual in question? Maybe SGT Craig E Johnson could fill us in on his teacher's lineage/credentials/ranking/certifications as he knows it?

[evvad]

I attend a 'Chokushin Aiki Jujutsu' school at the University of Waterloo.

While I don't know any more about the lineage of the school than any of you, I have a website that may help. It atleast has contact information and lots of names that may lead to more information.

I believe that this is the, err.. 'home page' of the style.

http://www.aiki-ju-jutsu.com/index.htm


I'll be happy to answer any specific questions you guys may have.
(btw, I have only been studying this martial art for the past year)

[judasith]

And where did the jutte techniques come from? According to Kondo Sensei, Daito-ryu never incorporated the jutte since law enforcement officials comprised a wholly separate social class than that from which Daito-ryu evolved.

These guys are frauds, at least in the sense of teaching "aikijujutsu", of that I believe there is little doubt. Would you really wear a black pijama to train seriously???

But it is NOT true that Daito-ryu does not incorporate jutte techniques! I practice Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu mainline from Kato Shigemitsu Sensei (over 30 years uchideshi of Takeda Tokimune, and technical director [=head of teachers] of the Daitokan for the last 11) in fact there are some even in the hiden mokuroku (in Gokajo, called juttedori, which is initially AGAINST an attacker with a jutte, while you are barehanded, and then you keep it and use it, finishing the kata). I also saw in an internal enbu 5 kata of juttejutsu, in which uchidachi uses a odachi (katana) and shidachi uses a jutte.

The main problem is, many of the purely weapon techniques of Daito-ryu got lost after Takeda Sensei passed away, and the others were scattered amongst his students... In the Seishinkai/Daitokai remains the weapon program of gokajo (the fifth series in the hiden mokuroku, a series comprised of a few standing jujutsu techniques, and a number of techniques of jujutsu against an uke using various weapons), which comprises tantodori, tachidori, bodori, juttedori, kasadori (tori defends while holding a jap. umbrella!), then in the other catalogues there are a few techniques of tankenjutsu (tanto), 5 kata of juttejutsu, just a couple of kata of toraejutsu (tying enemy with rope), kodachijutsu (which is called actually kodachi-waza, and is comprised of like a ten kata of idori and tachiai techniques in which both uke and tori use a wakizashi), shurikenjutsu (with a long and heavy bo-shuriken, not at all like the "ninja" you see teaching in the west), tessenjutsu (using a SOLID, not folding, iron fan), and the only remaining kenjutsu katas of Daito-ryu, which is called "battojutsu" (again, 5 katas).

Then there are some weapon katas that were there but that no one practices anymore, like sojutsu (spear; remaining in my association are just a couple of waza), bojutsu (rokushaku bo, I've never seen anyone still practicing it), then another type of training using bokken to deviate arrows, but that has not been practiced in the last 10 years (mostly because no one has interest in it).

Regarding Kondo Sensei telling that jutte isn't in Daito-ryu, well he also doesn't practice Ono-ha Itto-ryu. Leaving aside succession issues (about my opinion everyone knows what that is), Kondo S. always said to have received menkyo in Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu and not in Daito-ryu Aikibudo, which was the art taught and practiced by Takeda Tokimune Sensei, who used -budo instead of
-jujutsu because he also taught the weapon curriculum of the art and the Ono-ha Itto-ryu along. Then, like he doesn't practice Ono-ha Itto-ryu, he may as well not practice the 5 kata of jutteJUTSU, while he certainly must practice jutteDORI, which is in the hiden mokuroku, gokajo.

I hope I've been clear about this, even though slightly off topic :)

[rickfine]

I practice Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu mainline from Kato Shigemitsu Sensei (over 30 years uchideshi of Takeda Tokimune, and technical director [=head of teachers] of the Daitokan for the last 11) in fact there are some even in the hiden mokuroku (in Gokajo, called juttedori, which is initially AGAINST an attacker with a jutte, while you are barehanded, and then you keep it and use it, finishing the kata). I also saw in an internal enbu 5 kata of juttejutsu, in which uchidachi uses a odachi (katana) and shidachi uses a jutte.

Welcome back, Judasith, and thank you for clarifying my remarks for me.

For your information, Kondo Sensei was giving me an enbu in his office during the course of this very conversation. I had purchased a jutte while shopping in Tokyo earlier in the day, which he used to demonstrate a range of techniques while describing the jutte's actual and symbolic role during the Edo period. His point (if I can do it justice in restating it on the internet) was that juttejutsu was not a root of Daito-ryu.

By the way, exactly two years ago to the day from your above post, you told readers of the Aikido Journal forum that your long-promised interview with Kato Sensei was ready, then rattled off a litany of excuses for your further delay in publication: you couldn't send it to him because the Abashiri dojo's fax was broken, the new secretary doesn't speak English, no one there has email, the only English-speaking student changed phone numbers, etc.: http://www.aikidojournal.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=55449&highlight=interview#55449. Surely you have at least mailed him a copy since then. Marco Polo himself could have hand-delivered it by now! As the saying goes, "Put up or shut up."

[judasith]

Well, it seemed strange to me that Kondo Sensei wouldn't practice jutte, since it is catalogued in hiden mokuroku's Gokajo! Now it is much more clear: he doesn't say juttedori isn't in Daito-ryu, he just personally thinks it was added at a later time? Did I take it right, this time? This said without any bad meaning, if I can express the idea correctly in English.

Regarding the interview with Kato Sensei, there was a change of plans; since the interview published on the net was considered too unofficial to be published correctly (I do not have any administrative roles in the Daitokai), we decided the following: now we're directly preparing a book about mainline Daito-ryu which will present precise background of all the teachers of the Seishinkai/Daitokai, and a lot of never before published material written directly by Takeda Tokimune Sensei himself, as well as photos of the Soke with Kato Sensei, the menkyo he awarded to him and to my Sensei, and a selection of techniques covering all the program of Daito-ryu Aikibudo (including weapons and Ono-ha Itto-ryu). It will NOT be an instructional book, but a book about Daito-ryu, its techniques and history, with new and very interesting material.
We're going back to Hokkaido probably next Easter for an handwritten preface of Kato Sensei, but we already begun translating the original material from Takeda Sensei and some parts of the book. Assuming we can easily find an English publisher, I hope the book will be ready by summer 2006.

A book is much more permanent and official than some posts by a student on some website, and should be quite interesting to anyone interested in Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu and Ono-ha Itto-ryu Kenjutsu, either for critics, scholars, or else.

Best regards and happy holydays,

Giacomo Merello

[rickfine]

Sorry, Judasith, but either you misunderstand me, or you prefer to jump to your own self-serving conclusions.

I would encourage you to pay more consideration to jutte history: Which class of public servants and officials actually used the jutte as a weapon, rather than a symbol of authority? Given the nature of their work and the risk involved, were they low-ranking or high-ranking? Did Daito-ryu come from the same class?

Maybe this explains why, by your own account, the jutte first appears in the Daito-ryu curriculum at gokajo, and then in only one technique. That's godan level, right? How long would a student train before learning juttedori? After all those years, he finally gets to brandish a jutte — as the attacker. That doesn't sound like much juttejutsu. On the contrary, it sounds like defense against juttejutsu.

Your allegations in general, including curriculum differences, have already been dealt with in this article by Ted Howell (http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?p=260906#post260906). If we can return to the original topic of this thread, perhaps we can find some room for agreement.

As I recall, this phony "Tanemura/Smith" group claimed that jutte was among their specializations. That claim was more of a red flag for me, than it was for you. Nonetheless, if someone were looking for a jutte school, would they turn to Daito-ryu? In your own group, for instance, how long must a student train before learning the 5 jutte vs. katana kata that you yourself have only seen performed in an internal enbu? The "Tanemura/Smith" group's claim strikes me as false advertising.

Likewise, their uniforms stuck out like a sore thumb. I don't find anything distasteful about black uniforms, per se, and certainly they are customary in other legitimate disciplines — but certainly not in Daito-ryu, which this group purported to teach.

May I ask one favor, Judasith? For reference, could you post the website urls for the "Tanemura/Smith" group, where you saw their uniforms? The original links at the beginning of this thread all seem to be broken. Thank you.

Happy holidays!

[judasith]

First, the website:
http://www.aiki-ju-jutsu.com/training.htm you can see especially in the first picture from the top it's not quite traditional...

Second, about Jutte and Gokajo in Daito-ryu:

-Just for being precise, the -dori techniques of Gokajo are not a SINGLE technique: for instance, under tachidori there are 5 techniques, under bodori there are 3, etc. etc.
So it is not only ONE technique, but many, all involving jutte. You can trust me on this or ask your Daito-ryu teacher; even if those techniques are listed as one name, there are at least 3 for every weapon.

-it is true that the techniques begin with uke attacking with the jutte, but almost all the techniques lead tori to steal it and use it against the attacker himself (sometimes in very nasty and painful ways), actually USING the jutte not just for delivering atemi.

-there is also a series of 5 katas of katana vs. jutte, which I can only describe as juttejutsu, and it is transmitted in Daito-ryu Aikibudo. When you study juttedori in Gokajo, they also teach you those, but I don't know if that is their exact position or if it is like shurikenjutsu taught as part of the whole system. In which exact period those techniques were added, I don't know.

-also, when these techniques were developed noone thought of "go-dan level" since dan ranking was added at a muuuch later time, anyway; it is to point out that while TODAY completing the study of the hiden mokuroku can be quite well considered an achievement, it is actually just the shoden level of the art as a system.

At last, I was only trying to help, not wanting at all to rise a flame about legitimacy which is not the point here; you don't have to defend something which was not attacked... surely saying "Kondo says there is no jutte in Daito-ryu" is SURELY wrong, then either he did not say that from the beginning or he was, like I understood it actually went, proposing his own historical view about how, when and to what extent jutte was included in the curriculum, but that it DID, that is for certain.

All this just so that there are correct information about Daito-ryu, and not for any subtle meaning an ill-disposed mind could suspect.

Regards,

Giacomo Merello

[rickfine]

First, the website:
http://www.aiki-ju-jutsu.com/training.htm you can see especially in the first picture from the top it's not quite traditional...

I think this is an unrelated group, with a similar name but unconnected to the fakes who are the subject of this thread. I saw no mention of "Tanemura Katsumi" (apparently a fictional character) or Edward Smith, and their uniforms are completely different.

[Nathan Scott]

I've got an OT question for Giacomo:

What is the story with DR shurikenjutsu? I've heard of this before, and read references to Sokaku performing some shurikenjutsu, but have not really run into anything else about it. Do you know who incorporated it, where the methods came from originally, etc.?

Regards,

[judasith]

There are many weapon jutsu transmitted in Daito-ryu Aikibudo; most of them came from Takeda Sokaku, I believe.

I've always had interested in shurikenjutsu, and my teacher always told me in Daito-ryu it was taught as well.
So when I went to Hokkaido for the first time I crossed my fingers hoping they would show and teach me... well it happened the very first day I arrived! I studied and practiced Daito-ryu shurikenjutsu everyday for at least 2 hours a day, and at the end of each session Kato Sensei would come, see, and correct maybe a certain or certain other small (or larger) error I made. Today I still practice it, when I can (in the countryside) and during demonstrations in the open.

What I can tell you about it, is that we only use a kind of bo-shuriken, like a hashi to eat (chopstick), but quite beefier, and very heavy, in full iron or steel, with a roughly sharpened point. You use two different techniques (with or without "kaiten") if you are within 4 meters (which is, I believe 12-14 feet) from the target or not. There are a few kata, one for throwing "formally" and another to excersise your precision, for instance. They are very effective in piercing, since they are heavier than most other shurikens I've ever seen, but I guess they are still almost useless over 7 meters (20-25 feet) of distance from the target, which of course is a softer part of the human's body, like throat, hands, or else.

From what I've seen of Negishi-ryu Shurikenjutsu, ours is very similar in technique, while different in the type of shuriken. We know for sure Takeda Sokaku Sensei was a master of shurikenjutsu, and also had steel chopstick (very similar to the shuriken we use!) to use for atemi or throwing even while eating, but I don't know if this jutsu was incorporated in the art even before him.

[judoka0770]

This was posted a long time ago, and it seems that no one has been able to clarify this style. Please let me explain.

As a black belt in this particular style, I have spent a lot of time studying it's aspects, and when asking about the history of Chokushin had been dismissed.
m
Having moved on to Hatashita Judo, and watching other black belts performing kata, it would seem that Chokushin is a blend of Judo, Aikido and Daito-Ryu Ju jistu. Although I cannot cofirm Daito-Ryu it is apparent that the style is not in any way affiliated with any Authentic Japanese Ju Jitsu system.

It was a fun and very technically taught style. But lacks a robust curriculum. With no interest in grappling, professing that Ju jistu is not a ground art I would have to disagree. Also, claiming that this is a style that comes from sword play (and even has a sword in their emblem) do not focus any work in kenjutsu. A bit odd from my point of view.

The practitioners of Chokushin however are good people, and my time with them is valued. As a martial art with japanese heritage though, I can say it is not. It is a system assembled (like all martial arts are at some point) to reflect their interests and intentions.

I hope this shed some light on to this mystery.

Thanks.

[Nathan Scott]

Mr. judoka0770,

Thanks for the post, but you need to sign all your posts with your full, real name, per forum policy you read and agreed to when creating an account here. This can be set up automatically in the "User CP" link (signature) at the top left of the screen. On the internet, posts without names attached are pretty much meaningless.

Regards,