Fox attacks girl in her bedroom

[Shitoryu Dude]

I picked up this story from a London paper. Only in the UK would this happen I guess - around here and where I grew up there would be a dead fox with a couple of large holes in it shortly afterwards, not a bunch of whining about how nobody will take care of the fox. Please, a leaflet? How about somebody shows up with a shotgun and some bait?

:beer:


Fox attacks girl in her bedroom
By Rob McNeil, Evening Standard
4 September 2003
A young girl was left in agony after being attacked by a fox while she slept.

The animal bit four-year-old Jessica Brown after creeping through an open door at her home in Tufnell Park.

Her parents Richard Brown, and his wife, Corinne Magnier, both 36, had been watching a video downstairs when they heard her screams.

Mr Brown, an English teacher, said: "It was about 9.30pm on Sunday. We'd left the back door open as we often do in the summer. We heard a loud cry from Jessica's room and my wife dashed up and screamed at me to come upstairs. She was shouting that there was a cat in the room and then she said, 'No, it's a fox'. I ran upstairs, saw the fox and managed to chase it out.

"I went back upstairs and saw Jessica's arm, which had big, U-shaped teeth marks on it, and there was blood.

"We got into the car and dashed to hospital. She was seen in about 15 minutes."

He continued: "Jessica has recovered well. She slept in our room that night but has been back in her own bed since."

He believed the smell of a roast chicken dinner the family had eaten earlier in the day lured the fox into the house.

But Mr Brown branded Islington council's response to the fox attack "appalling". He said the fox's lair was in the garden of a council-managed house next door, which had not been cleared for five years and resembled "a jungle".

He said: "We have a dangerous animal living next door. I phoned the pest control department and their response was to send me a leaflet."

Mr Brown said he was considering buying a chemical to spray in his garden to deter foxes.

But Islington council said it now planned to clear the garden and take advice on how to deal with urban foxes.

Councillor Jyoti Vaja said: "I was shocked to hear what had happened and wish the girl well."

[Ron Tisdale]

Here (in the NE US) foxes are very shy and solitary animals. I've never heard of one that was not rabid attacking a human. I wonder if the girl had to get rabies shots....

RT

[Shitoryu Dude]

That thought crossed my mind as well - it is not normal behavior for a wild animal to enter a house and attack a small child. Foxes normally hunt insects, rodents and other small animals - not something their own size or larger.

While they look cool, foxes are a rather vicious member of the dog family and I've never heard of anyone ever domesticating one, even slightly.

Personally, I think the effort in the UK to ban all fox hunting is misguided.

:beer:

[Bushi Jon]

I hate to say it. There has to be more to the story (like the people feeding it)I have been around animals along time and I have never seen a fox come with in 50 yards of a person unless they had been feeding it.

[Ron Tisdale]

I smell something fishy here...unless foxes in the UK are different from here...

RT

[BigJon]

How about somebody shows up with a shotgun and some bait? Well bait in London is easy...but guns are uh...well you know, illegal .

[Shitoryu Dude]

Yeah, and now the government and the populace at large is now defenseless against the maraudings of wild animals. C'mon - blow the damn critter away and turn it into a decoration.

I know that had that happened in the US the fox would now be dead and would be getting checked for rabies.

:beer:

[BigJon]

:) :beer: Kinda like this...?

[Shitoryu Dude]

Bubba there knows what he's doing.

Slightly off topic, but what sort of coloration do you see on foxes in the UK? Here in the US they range from the classic red with white or black tail and black noses and feet to the rather coyote-looking specimen in the picture. Arctic foxes change color throughout the year to match their environment of the season.

:beer:

[Soulend]

My, the foxes there must be very different. I have hunted fox and they are extremely wary, even over bait. The ones I have seen will not come anywhere near a human.

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by Shitoryu Dude
Personally, I think the effort in the UK to ban all fox hunting is misguided.
You misunderstand, Harvey. Hunting with hounds is done for the fun of it; it is a grossly inefficient way of culling the fox population. In fact, hunters have been known to breed foxes in captivity to ensure an adequate supply for the fox hunting season. Also, during the chase, hunters egregiously trample on other people's land, destroying gardens and farmers' crops. It has nothing to do with keeping the fox population under control (poison would be more efficient), and everything to do with the pageantry, which is a piss-poor reason to make the animal suffer. Better to be humane in the culling. As Oscar Wilde said, "Hunting is the unspeakable in pursuit of the inedible."

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by Soulend
My, the foxes there must be very different. I have hunted fox and they are extremely wary, even over bait. The ones I have seen will not come anywhere near a human.
Urban foxes are very different from rural ones, though, David. Urban foxes dare to venture into houses because they are hungry, and there aren't enough small rodents to hunt.

[budojill]

As an urbanite in the Boston area I have seen crows, pigeons, rats & mice, possum and racoons, all of which pick through garbage, and all of which I prefer dead to alive. Never a fox- I have seen foxes only in the New Hampshire woods and they are reddish and very shy of humans.

Question- are guns illegal altogether in London? I have heard policemen don't carry in England but that's hard to believe.

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by budojill
Question- are guns illegal altogether in London? I have heard policemen don't carry in England but that's hard to believe.
Why? Because it's beyond your range of experience? Very ferw police officers carry guns; it has never been deemed necessary. For a civilian, getting a gun licence is more difficult than winning the lottery. You need to be friends with the mayor or royalty to get a reference.

[Shitoryu Dude]

Oscar Wilde didn't know what the hell he was talking about.

Yeah, I already know quite abit about the famed tradition of fox hunting - I just think it is total urban pussification that is putting an end to it.

:beer:

[Kimpatsu]

Harvey, what is the purpose of fox hunting?

[StanLee]

I live quite close to the place stated in the news article. In fact just read about it this morning on the way to work.

I think I'll be sitting up at night with my shinken at the ready.

Roast fox anyone?

[larsen_huw]

Fox hunting in the UK is merely a way for rich countrified toffs to get their jollies off while chasing small mammals (bit like toffs mating rituals then! :D ).

A far better way to control foxes is a shotgun and a pissed off farmer. In urban areas, the local pest control guy usually has some good poison for foxes.

People who think that not banning fox hunting would of made 1 jot of differnce to this girl being attacked needs their head examined! The thought of a traditional fox hunt charging through the streets of London is ludicrous! :)

[Mike Williams]

Am I the only one here who thought this was going to be a Men's Room thread?

Cheers,

Mike

[Soulend]

Originally posted by Kimpatsu
Urban foxes are very different from rural ones, though, David. Urban foxes dare to venture into houses because they are hungry, and there aren't enough small rodents to hunt.

I figured as much. Animals which have been driven into urban and suburban environments, usually due to destruction of their habitat, tend to be quite a bit more agressive than their country-dwelling cousins.

I don't know anything about the situation in England, but oft times here the destruction of natural habitat coupled with poor game management practices leads to wild animals roaming around neighborhoods. Simply because there are too many critters for the measly amount of habitat we have left them, or hunting is prohibited in the area. The suburbanites don't want hunting in the outlying areas, then are angry because bears are in their garbage or wandering deer are becoming a road hazard.

[Evan London]

we live in a fairly well developed sububran area. We have a fox living across the street from us in the srtip of woods between the road and the river. I've see it frequently and it's been on our front step a few times sniffing around. It always scoots away when we come out or come anywhere near it. My daughter loves it and calls it "My fox". We don't fed it or anything, but we certainly appreciate it keeping the mole and rabbit poulation down and out of our flower beds.

Also, what idiot keeps his door open at night, in a urban area, without a screen door in place? Guess this family never head of kidnapings or robberies. Thy're just lucky it was a fox and not a burglar or other violent criminal.

Ev

[Shitoryu Dude]

The purpose of fox hunting? If you are doing it with a pack of hounds while on horseback the purpose is to have fun. Its too inefficient for anything else. Its a "sport" for those with money, time, and lots of beagles.

:beer:

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by Shitoryu Dude
The purpose of fox hunting? If you are doing it with a pack of hounds while on horseback the purpose is to have fun. Its too inefficient for anything else. Its a "sport" for those with money, time, and lots of beagles.
It's not a sport, Harvey; the fox is an unwilling participant. It's cruelty, pure and simple. Hunting should only be allowed where it has a practical value: food, or pest control. Hunting with hounds satisfies neither of these conditions, and causes much damage to the countryside.

[Mike Williams]

Re. fox hunting (on horseback, with hounds): Tony and Huw have hunted down and caught the correct.

I once met a farmer in Shropshire who had a field that was crossed by the local hunt. Increasingly irritated by not being able to use that field for anything sensible, on hunt days he would lie in wait... and shoot the fox.

Hunting with hounds is all about upper-class pageantry, and is possibly the least efficient form of pest control imaginable. As a blood-sport it's really not that much different from dog fighting or badger baiting - both of which are outlawed (partly because, as working class pursuits, they were easier targets).

Re. urban foxes: they're not that big a deal. They are very abundant in London, and apart from ripping up rubbish bags and running in front of cars, don't cause much of a nuisance.

Cheers,

Mike

[Shitoryu Dude]

Yet again we touch upon one of the major differences between the US and the UK. Over here we have not been conditioned by the pansy-ass press to harbor prejudices against "blood sports" and recoil in horror that someone is out killing something. I've read enough of the UK papers to know that your press finds killing anything more intelligent than a carrot to be a crime.

No wildlife is ever a "willing participant" in being hunted, but that doesn't make it wrong. Personally, I think it would be a blast to go on a fox hunt. Except for the overall size of the event it seems quite similar to hunting other predators with hounds.

:beer:

[tb055]

Check out the link, the girl doesn't look like she was savaged at all, a couple of little holes and that's it. I think it's a fine example of over the top tabloid journalism.


http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2003410938,,00.html

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by Shitoryu Dude
No wildlife is ever a "willing participant" in being hunted, but that doesn't make it wrong. Personally, I think it would be a blast to go on a fox hunt. Except for the overall size of the event it seems quite similar to hunting other predators with hounds.
How about we hunt you with shotguns?
Cock fighting, badger baiting, and bear baiting are illegal in America, too.

[larsen_huw]

Harvey,

Lets assume fox hunting was still legal in this country, and lets assume the upper class would let someone as uncouth as an american to join their hunt (i'm assuming you can ride a horse ... otherwise there wouldn't be much point in wanting to go fox hunting).

Where would you do it? The UK isn't the largest place in the world, and there just isn't enough unowned land to go chasing a fox across the countryside on a horse. What would you do if the fox ran into a farmers field? If you'd follow it in, imagine how you'd feel if upwards of 30 horses and 60 dogs came crashing through your back yard and out the other side, without stopping to say sorry or pay for the damage ... 90 aminals famous for the amount they s**h, well at least your plants would grow back quickly! :D Still think following it in is the right thing to do?

As you might guess, i'm against this form of fox hunting, it's unsuitable. What's wrong with poison (possibly indescriminate) or a good old shotgun? Both of which are much more effective ways to curb the fox population without undue suffering to the fox, or undue damage to bystanders land.

[Mike Williams]

Originally posted by Shitoryu Dude
Over here we have not been conditioned by the pansy-ass press to harbor prejudices against "blood sports" and recoil in horror that someone is out killing something.

Nonsense. Dog- and cock-fighting are illegal, aren't they? In any event, there are plenty of Americans who aren't gun toting shootin' n' fishin' backwoodsmen, and plenty who would object to the killing of animals purely for recreation.

I have nothing against pest-control where it is needed, or the culling of surplus populations that threaten environmental balance.
I have nothing against hunting, provided you eat/use what you kill.

It's killing purely for recreation that I find repugnant, and the notion that certain types of bloodsport are more acceptable than others, purely because of the social strata that they operate in.

Cheers,

Mike

PS: Oh yeah - please explain to me why hunting for sport is perfectly legal in the USA, but most states won't sanction MMA competition: "It's barbaric! It's a bloodsport! Human cockfighting! Oh the horror" :p ;)

[monkeyboy_ssj]

Ban dynamite fishing, thats what i say...

[Mike Williams]

Originally posted by monkeyboy_ssj
Ban dynamite fishing, thats what i say...

Me too - although that does look like it might be fun...

Cheers,

Mike (hypocrite, moi?)

[Shitoryu Dude]

As I understand it - the fox hunters are required to pay for all damages (as a matter of fact I saw this on a PBS show not long back). While I think that limits on where they go are quite in order, the event itself is not immoral as the press likes to characterize it. Banning it outright is a mistake.

Hunting with hounds is still done in the US to a large extent if you just know the right people. Foxes, cougars, bears, raccoons - some people ride horses, some use motorcycles or ATVs, other just run.

Fishing with dynamite is really no different than nets, only louder.

Dogfights and cockfights are illegal for the most part. I can agree with the ban on dogfighting out of my own personal prejudice, but certainly cockfighting doesn't bother me.

:beer: