is MP3 filesharing illeagal?

[william northcote]

Today I got from CNET a e mail with a link to a page on P2P filesharing. It seems that it is legal but only to a point. I will place what was wrote onto this thread so you can make up your own minds if it is legal or not.


Myth No. 1: The RIAA will sue you for downloading music.
As I mentioned in a previous column, the RIAA is currently suing only users who share more than 1,000 songs. This doesn't mean that it is legal to download copyrighted music without permission of the copyright owner. It's not (see below). At this time, however, it appears that the RIAA is not targeting people who download copyrighted music. They are going after uploaders, not downloaders, which means that as long as you aren't sharing a significant number of files, the ongoing purge will pass you by.

Myth No. 2: Downloading music from the Internet is illegal.
Although absolutely untrue, this is perhaps the saddest side effect of the RIAA crackdowns. There are plenty of legal places to get MP3s: Epitonic, iTunes Music Store, BuyMusic, Listen.com Rhapsody, and eMusic all offer free and/or legal downloads from every type of artist imaginable. Even the "illegal" networks have plenty of songs that are perfectly legal to download. Some of these have been designated by the copyright holder as such using the EFF's OAL (Open Audio License), or a Creative Commons license. An interesting side note: in this article from the Oregonian, the first person to be busted for online copyright infringement says that after his bust, "[computers] lost their charm for me...[downloading music] doesn't even occur to me now." He was only the first potential paying online music consumer the labels have alienated; recent media coverage of the current suits are sure to add significantly to that number.

Myth No. 3: Downloading copyrighted material without permission is legal.
In the interest of fairness, I must point out that downloading copyrighted material without permission is 100 percent illegal. When you download an MP3, you make a copy of that file from a remote location onto your hard drive. Copying the song is the exclusive right of the copyright holder, and doing so without permission is an act of copyright infringement.

Myth No. 4: Downloading a song illegally is just like stealing it from a store.
This old chestnut has been bandied about quite a bit in the past five years, but that doesn't make it true. CDs are physical things, and copyright is an abstract right. As Supreme Court Justice Harry Blackmun wrote (somewhat obliquely) in 1985, "[copyright infringement] does not easily equate with theft, conversion, or fraud...The infringer invades a statutorily defined province guaranteed to the copyright holder alone. But he does not assume physical control over copyright; nor does he wholly deprive its owner of its use." There you have it: Infringing on copyright is materially different from stealing physical CDs, according to the highest court in the land (the "thief" in question was acquitted of theft in the case in question, Dowling v. United States). While not definitive, Blackman's statement shows that there is substantial doubt as to whether copyright infringement should be equated with outright theft.




It also says about lost sales but if you d/l music then buy the CD does that mean you are breaking the law or abiding by it?

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

The way I understand it.

1.) You can make copies of YOUR CD's/Videos/DVD's for PERSONAL use ONLY, may it be onto tape, MP3 files or similar.
2.) Giving/Receiving those said copies to/from someone or sharing them via the Internet is considered ILLEGAL.

In the old days the Industry ignored personal swapping as it was too hard to trace from where a tape came from, etc.

With the Internet there is an electronic trail that links people.

There are plenty of sites where you can LEGALLY download songs for a modest fee $0.99 per song, whihc is nice if you only look for a song or two.
Be warned though that buying a CD containing lots of song you want might be cheaper to purchase than to download.

[kirigirisu]

Rubbish.

First off, to clear up the biggest piece of shyte which from all other pieces of shyte issueth forth from the cakeholes of the RIAAA:

mp3s are NOT so-called "CD-quality" recordings. To save on bandwidth and what not, many of the higher and lower frequency bands are unceremoniously cropped from the track in question, so you basically get something that's about the quality of radio airplay.

(Granted, most people don't have a five-figure set-up bought and paid for to truly appreciate the shortcomings of mp3s, but I can afford it (contrary to whatever some self-aggrandizing so-called elder might theorize) and enjoy the hell out of it before the hearing finally goes kaput.)

It's about the same as recording stuff off the radio. Plus you get all the wonderful stuff that isn't in wide release and probably never will be.

Utter crap from an industry that's been co-opted by bean-counters seeing their profit margins and holiday bonuses waver and peeing their bloomers like a little girl at a Justin Timberlake concert.

Plus, I see nothing wrong with downloading something then buying the album afterwards. MP3s sound just plain ugly out of a set of Egglestons.

[Mike Williams]

Originally posted by kirigirisu
It's about the same as recording stuff off the radio.

Which is also illegal.

I see nothing ethically wrong with downloading stuff on a 'try before you buy' basis, but technically speaking you are still violating copyright laws if you do so without permission/payment.

If the RIAA is focussing most of its efforts on prosecuting "uploaders", then that is entirely justified, IMO. Downloading stuff to see if you like it, and then deleting or buying it as appropriate is fair enough. Making your CD collection available to anyone who wants it is not.

But however you dress it up, file sharing/swapping without the permission of the copyright holder is always illegal.

Cheers,

Mike

[kirigirisu]

Originally posted by Mike Williams
Which is also illegal.


Not exactly. In the States you can record a broadcast for "private use" as long as you don't re-broadcast or re-sell said broadcast for profit without express written permission from the people in question.

I'm guessing your stance may be because you're a Briton and have to pay a nominal fee to enjoy the use of your airwaves, but it's a different set of rules Stateside.

[Mike Williams]

Originally posted by kirigirisu
In the States you can record a broadcast for "private use" as long as you don't re-broadcast or re-sell said broadcast for profit without express written permission from the people in question.

Interesting - I didn't know that.

Cheers,

Mike

[Rennis]

Originally posted by kirigirisu

mp3s are NOT so-called "CD-quality" recordings. To save on bandwidth and what not, many of the higher and lower frequency bands are unceremoniously cropped from the track in question, so you basically get something that's about the quality of radio airplay.

(Granted, most people don't have a five-figure set-up bought and paid for to truly appreciate the shortcomings of mp3s, but I can afford it (contrary to whatever some self-aggrandizing so-called elder might theorize) and enjoy the hell out of it before the hearing finally goes kaput.)

This is partly incorrect. I can hear the difference between and mp3 and a proper cd even on my cheap car stereo. Granted I spend large portions of my day making and recording music too so my hearing might be a bit more acute than the average listener. For those interested as to the hows and whys, the simple fact is that an mp3 is missing about 80% of the audio data that a standard cd audio track has. While the majority of that data is technically outside the range of human hear, those freq.s do interact with the audio we can hear and thus effect how we hear the music. That is why most mp3's sound flat and muddy compared to CD or higher quality audio which sound deeper and brighter. For home listening it might not be a huge deal to most people, but, for example, there are djs who are starting to do their sets off of mp3 and the difference is drastic on a huge (or even not so huge) pumping club system. Also mp3 encoding works on a sort of "average" guess on how most people hear music, which helps them decide what to loose and what to keep in the audio data. The problem is its and "average" and not everyone hears the same, hence why some people never hear the difference, and other people think that even cd audio sounds flat compared to other formats.

As for is downloading mp3s legal issue? The answer is both yes and no and which it is depends on the copyright issues. For the majority of users, their mp3 downloading is illegal due to the "no-permission" issues, as mentioned above, from both the copyright holders of the music and of the recording of that music (two different things often held by two different people). That said there are plenty of cases where it is perfectly legal. For example all the music on mp3.com, where the artists have specifically uploaded their music for free public download. Some artists have no issues with free trading of their music, other works are created specifically for public domain use. Unfortunately 99.9% of the music you will find at your local recordshop would be illegal to download.

[kirigirisu]

Originally posted by Rennis
This is partly incorrect. I can hear the difference between and mp3 and a proper cd even on my cheap car stereo. Granted I spend large portions of my day making and recording music too so my hearing might be a bit more acute than the average listener. For those interested as to the hows and whys, the simple fact is that an mp3 is missing about 80% of the audio data that a standard cd audio track has. While the majority of that data is technically outside the range of human hear, those freq.s do interact with the audio we can hear and thus effect how we hear the music. That is why most mp3's sound flat and muddy compared to CD or higher quality audio which sound deeper and brighter. For home listening it might not be a huge deal to most people, but, for example, there are djs who are starting to do their sets off of mp3 and the difference is drastic on a huge (or even not so huge) pumping club system. Also mp3 encoding works on a sort of "average" guess on how most people hear music, which helps them decide what to loose and what to keep in the audio data. The problem is its and "average" and not everyone hears the same, hence why some people never hear the difference, and other people think that even cd audio sounds flat compared to other formats.


I know man. Just decided to go for the lay-person explanation, as I don't think I could have made the tech-talk anything as succinct as what you've posted.

Aren't you glad I decided to forsake the (planned) career as a technical writer and take the audition bimbos for B-movies gig fresh out of college?

[william northcote]

okay, would it be right if you managed to download some obscure band that no one has heard of?

I have been trying for nearly a year and the closest I got was on WinMX and only then I have 4 track from a 12 track album. Even the old e-donkey network came second close. Kazaa, the most widely used P2P next up to Morpheus, has no music from this band I want.

So is getting a few MP3's for to listen to better than trying to go through CD shops and having a 18 year old say "Hold on Grandfather, I'll look for you".

Even though I have bought the tape years ago, it has worn out through use. So doing a search and download is better to keep your music collection up to date.

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

I think it all depends on the copyright issue.
Even obscure unknown bands can copyright their songs and many do.

As was mentioned many bands and labels got music that is unprotected and thus free for downloading anything else is not.

Granted I also did downloads of a few songs I couldn't lay my grubby paws on any longer, OTOH, I have found a few shops that will re-produce discs and singles on request.
Might take a few months for them to get the required volume of orders though.

Or I visit on of the Music Shops that allows you to buy indiviudal songs/MP3's and burn them onto a CD.

Maybe if you visit sites like iTunes or similar you might find the material that you are looking for, granted they will charge you a small fee for downloading said song.

[Rennis]

Originally posted by T'ai Ji Monkey
I think it all depends on the copyright issue.
Even obscure unknown bands can copyright their songs and many do.

As was mentioned many bands and labels got music that is unprotected and thus free for downloading anything else is not.

Technically the second you create a piece of music (or written works, works of art, etc) you own the copyright to it. Registering your copyright is recommended, but all artists own the copyright to the work the minute it is created. Therefore technically downloading music of obscure bands is still illegal unless they have either given you permission to copy it or have ok'ed the work for public domain use (and pretty much NOONE does that). There is of course the other issue of whether or not the obscure band would really care if you ware downloading their music or not, but legally speaking it is still illegal.

In the simplest terms, mp3 sharing as done by 99% of the people out there is illegal. There are many legal twists and turns involved. To give one example, you can freely download any of my tracks on mp3.com that I have uploaded there. But despite the fact that they are free for downloading, I still own all the rights for the music and they are only there for the private use of the downloader. You technically cannot put said tracks in your share folder of whatever your p2p software of choice is and distribute them as I never gave permission for that. Of course I am realistic and know that anything I ever put up on mp3.com is getting traded all over and I don't really care too much, but legally speaking it is illegal. When all is said and done basically the only 100% legal means of attaining music is either buying it, or getting it from artist and or label approved sources (iTunes, MP3.com, etc). Everything else is pretty much, under the terms of the law, illegal.

As an interesting side note, all Club DJs are technically breaking the law as all music broadcast by any means publically needs to have royalities paid to the copyright holders. The industry however decided that the promotional value they get from having DJs play their music off sets the loss in royalities and they unofficially turn a blind eye to it. Then again with RIAA doing what they are doing these days I could even see this changing sometime.

Best,
Rennis Buchner

[william northcote]

Originally posted by Rennis
Therefore technically downloading music of obscure bands is still illegal unless they have either given you permission to copy it or have ok'ed the work for public domain use (and pretty much NOONE does that).

Only one band I know that has all their music for download is Deathboy in the UK. He has all his music, not only on MP3.com but also at an anti-goth website as well. Even his new album is up there. It is the other record companies that make a big bone over the downloads as they are the ones making the money for profit.

[Mike Williams]

If you are downloading obscure stuff, it's more important than ever to pay for the music you download.

While MP3s allow independent artists to reach a much wider audience, artists still depend on your purchases for their living.

You might feel that by file-sharing big-name-artists' work you are only stiffing Sony or whoever (or that the artist is rich enough for it not to make a difference) - but file-sharing MP3s by independents is directly depriving musicians of their living.

99.9% of professional musicians struggle to make a living wage. If you want to continue to listen to music, you need to support them.

Cheers,

Mike

[william northcote]

Well I tried ITunes, but it said the service was not available in my country :-o so it seems that P2P is the only way. Supporting minor bands is the best way, where as bands like Iron Maiden can pay off the company and make a pure profit when all the work for the production has been paid to the workers ETC.

[Rennis]

Originally posted by Mike Williams
If you are downloading obscure stuff, it's more important than ever to pay for the music you download.

While MP3s allow independent artists to reach a much wider audience, artists still depend on your purchases for their living.

You might feel that by file-sharing big-name-artists' work you are only stiffing Sony or whoever (or that the artist is rich enough for it not to make a difference) - but file-sharing MP3s by independents is directly depriving musicians of their living.

99.9% of professional musicians struggle to make a living wage. If you want to continue to listen to music, you need to support them.


Amen. Despite the pure drivel RIAA is claiming about mp3 hurting the Big Five's sales (which is almost all b.s. but that is a whole other thread in and of itself), p2p filesharing is in fact crippling some areas of the music industry. Namely the small independant labels. I'm active in a small sub-genre of the dance music scene and in the last two year I have watched a mess of fairly well established labels go out of business with a major reason in all cases being a sudden sudden huge drop sales due to mp3 trading. I personally have had to stop putting my music up for download because the labels will basically not touch a track that is available online in the trader circles.

Unlike major label artists, who pretty much never see any money off their cd sales and make all their money off of touring, artists on small independant labels actually can and do receive a somewhat realistic share of their record sales (provided their label owner is honest). Its pretty sad when I have read in interviews time and time again of major artists in their given genre state that they will most likely soon have to give up making the music that they love because they can no longer feed themselves due to the huge drop in sales the last two or three years. Ironically it sees to be shaping out that the indy labels that still focus on vinyl are the ones who seem to have been able to ride out the storm so far as they are the ones least affected by mp3 file trading.

P2p can seem like a great thing for those with little access to obscure music, but it is important that if you really like something, you take the time to track it down and buy it. Support the artists that are creating the music you love.

Rennis Buchner