Sword training in Aikido?

[George Ledyard]

My teacher, Saotome Sensei, has over the years done a wide variety of sword techniques. We always wondered where he had derived his techniques. I heard recently from a student of Imaizumi Sensei that he had been told that when O-Sensei was alive he had invited a teacher from the Yagyu style and one from Itto Ryu to teach private classes for the uchi deshi at Hombu dojo. It seems that the practice ceased under the leadership of his son.
Does anyone know who these teachers might have been and how long and how often they were conducted? I figured this would be the place to find out.

[R. Scherzinger]

George,
It would seem to me that you are senior enough to ask Saotome Sensei. If he is reluctant then the other uchi deshi should have that answer.

Point though, if we examine the sword work of all the deshi there are few stylistic similarities in their movement and subsequent application, other than aiki interpritation. If they had learned a traditional sword style for any extended period of time they would have certain stylistic signatures within them. Meaning if your students and mine went to a common grading people would be able to decern quite quickly who's student were who's. Not good or bad just flavor.

So not saying that it didn't happen, but my quess is that if it did it was seminar style and not for any long period.

Rem Scherzinger

[Dan Harden]

If Stanleys interviews with his earlier Deshi are accurate. It would seem the majority of the training with Useshiba sensei was taijutsu not weapons. Many of his students got their own sword from "other experiences" Chiba and Mochizuki being an example that comes to mind. I think its one of the reasons you would see vast differences. One is doing Iai the other TSKSR.
In our "minds" they both trained with the "legend" Ueshiba. So many of us impart all sorts of conotations to that "Name" that are not neccesarily valid. Again it may be the reason we see such vast differences. The majority of their sword forms had nothing to do with Ueshiba. Then you have sugawara who studied with Otake....
I beleive the list of men who have solid weapons technique learned "elsewhere" before or after their Aikido training would be very large. I am no fan of Aiki sword anyway, but there are some sensei with excellent weapons from their koryu training.
Saotome says in his latest book that he didnt train with weapons much with Ueshiba. And, that he made up all his sword forms in their entirety!!
It is in either the forward or prologue. That would account for his weapon work being completely different. Add to all of that, the personal influence of each sensei's "view" of proper "Aiki" sword on their own technique and you have a very diverse field to choose from.

I have the names of the Yagyu guys, as well as a Kashima shinto ryu guy around here somewhere.They were mentioned in some interview. I do not remember the validity of the claims though. I'll try to find them when I get back tuesday. But I suspect they will be provided by then.

Dan
"Who appreciated Saotome Sensei's honesty. Hopefully it will add to his own well desrved reputation, instead of borrowing from anothers"

[Edited by Dan Harden on 10-05-2000 at 07:03 AM]

[bob elder]

I suppose you know Hooker Sensei if you train under Saotome. Our Toyama RYu class shares space with his (powerful) Aikido class. Bob Elder

[George Ledyard]

Originally posted by bob elder
I suppose you know Hooker Sensei if you train under Saotome. Our Toyama RYu class shares space with his (powerful) Aikido class. Bob Elder
Dennis Sensei and I have been friends for a very long time. Don't get to see him much as it would be hard to get farther apart than we are in the states.

[George Ledyard]

My message got completed deleted when i tried to edit it. I'l try again some other time.

[Edited by George Ledyard on 10-06-2000 at 01:51 AM]