View Full Version : Niten Ryu vs Nito waza in Jodo
01-14-2004, 03:27 AM
I have only done one training session in Niten Ichi Ryu a few years ago and so can only remember a couple of things about it.
The reason why I am posting it here rather than the swords forum is that I want to know (in reference to Greg's posting) how effective people think jo vs nito is. Certainly in most of the jo part of the SMR jodo curriculum, the nitodachi seems slightly inane and hardly ever seems to use both swords effectively. In the Shinto Ryu Kenjutsu section they seem to be a bit more versatile but still seem to play the part of the "unskilled" opponent.
01-14-2004, 06:14 AM
In context of when the kata were created, each han would not know the heiho of the other.. so it stands to reason that if Gonosuke had his initial match with Musashi, experienced his juji dome but not much more I suspect.
It's easier for us now to see the Kata of different Ryuha, cause the Iemoto systems have been relaxed. So in the Niten (nito) Chudan Kamae example we in SMR use the juji dome style kamae ha down, versus the blades laid horizontal with tips on centerline in NIR. So in application, in Kengome for example (kenjutsu same) we're supposed to break the kamae in a powerful upward motion.
Do this against a NIR kamae, and there's nothing to break. You're in big trouble. Again the kamae we use in SMR with Nito are only basic, if you've ever seen the Waki Gamae Hidari kata done by Imai Soke in his Budokan video.. you'll see it's pretty pointless, eg kodachi otoshi.
The other thing I recall reading from a previous post of Colin Hyakute-Watkins, a senior NIR student of Imai Soke was that part of the NIR heiho is to get inside your ma-ai (very close.. can't recall the exact distance they work within) so your attack is rendered useless and you're cut-down or tsuki'd upon retreat. (maybe try a search on post)
In NIR they always seem cut from directly hasso no kamae single handed like we do in SMR with two-hands, in Jodo most uchidachi seem to cut from a jodan migi position ie. like kodachi, and raise up sword. Jodan being a modern kamae, seems to give the illusion of more time for shidachi and power for us who can't cut like NIR kenjutsuka with one hand properly. Of course, their grip makes more sense for single hand cutting and tenouchi.
Anyway.. my 2 cents worths, and just my personal opinions.
01-14-2004, 07:05 AM
sorry make that Colin Hyakutake-Watkin. my sincere apologies to Hyakutake-san
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