Okinawan Warrior Symbol

[Blackwood]

Wondering if anyone can provide a full detail of the symbol's meaning, origins and history. You can see it in the center of the cover of Mark Bishop's Book (http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0804832056/ref=sib_dp_pt/002-8662055-2976007#reader-link).

[Jussi Häkkinen]

One: http://www.okinawa.com/faq.html

Two: http://www.inch.com/~sritter/Tears.html


There are also several other stories regarding to that symbol.

[Raff]

As a practioner of Uechi-Ryu, I must say that this symbol is quite similar to the one I have on my left arm on my Gi.

All I know about this mon is that it's supposed to represent the dragon claw. There must be some links to China as well. I'll ask and come later with hopefully a more detailed explanation.

[Blackwood]

Wow! Thank you for the links.

I'm almost sorry I asked! Three out of four of the stories are pretty gruesome, but have the same basic background.

[Blackwood]

Found another interpretation!

Okinawan Symbol (http://pages.zdnet.com/oika/kobudo/id10.html)

[gmanry]

Just as an interesting side note. The Ryukyu symbol is almost identical to the symbol for the Kukishin Ryu of the Kuki family. Morihei Ueshiba studied Kukishin ryu and it more than likely influenced his jo work and some of his esoteric teachings, the hiza garuma in Judo comes from the Kukishin Ryu, and it is a part of the Bujinkan lineage as well.

Unfortunately I don't know the symbol's history or origin in the Kukishin ryu. I just thought it was an interesting note.

PS

Here is a link to the homepage of the mainline Kukishin Ryu

http://www.shinjin.co.jp/kuki/ (http://http://www.shinjin.co.jp/kuki/)

[Shikiyanaka]

The one link says
"symbol now called "Hidari Gomon/Hijai Gumun" ... "This symbol closely resembles the Japanese "mitsu domae""

mitsu domae is correctly spelled [Hidari] Mitsu Domoe. Translated into "three left-turning comma(designs)" it looks like the symbol of Hachiman, one Japanese god of war.

Although it was the symbol of the Shô family (the family of the Ryûkyû kings), the sign is also found as part of the Mon (coat-of-arms) of other Ryûkyû kingdom times families.

All I remember right now.

[Nyuck3X]

I have also heard (I can't remember exactly where from)
that it represents man, earth and the universe. Kinda
like the Okinawan version of the five rings.

Peace.

[Katsujinken]

The symbol with the three dragons holding the three pearls with the Sho family Mon in the middle is one that Bishop was using for years and it does as Andreas states relate to Hachiman, at least as far as i can ascertain from having had a close association with Bishop and one of his close senior students a few years back.

To be precise according to Bishop it relates to Sho Toku the son of King Sho Taikyu. Sho Toku raided the islands of Kikai and then built a Hachiman shrine in Asato, Naha and then adopted the symbol as Royal crest. Apparently it was also the symbol of sea pirates (According to Bishop anyway). However it is likely that Bishop has modified the original.

Bishop used the symbol for his own organisations the Sogo Bugei No Kai and what was the International Shiatsu Commission. It was on all his posters and paperwork a few years back.

Just curious why the curiosity?

Regards

Chris Norman

[chizikunbo]

My sensai told me that it was derived from the swirrling pattern that three okinawan diplomats to japan head's made when they were boiled alive by the emporer. So the ryukyu emporer made this symbol in rememberance of them.
Well That is what I was told anyway ;)

[Katsujinken]

'it was derived from the swirrling pattern that three okinawan diplomats to japan head's made when they were boiled alive by the emporer'. Interesting.

Be interesting to know two things:
1. Is that an interpretation of the Mon in the middle or does it include the dragons that are holding what looks like three pearls in their claws as well?

2. Which Emperors?

Best Regards

Chris Norman

[chizikunbo]

dont know the emporers names, I was told that the dragons represent power and good fortune but that sounds chinese, but I am not for sure, sorry:(

[Blackwood]

The kings are named in the first site referenced in the second post.

[Old Dragon]

My sensei who is married to an okinawan, and whom spent many years on Okinawa refers to the symbol as a tomoy, pronounced "Toe moy".

He has told me that the story refering to the kings or emporers is what it was originally about. At least the story I heard was close to these, It was a word of mouth story several years ago and I really dont remember details, just the "gist" of it.

I just thought it interesting that nobody that I noticed ever gave it that name in this dicussion. I know many okinawan's that refer to it as a Tomoy.


Mike O'Leary

[Steven Malanosk]

Tomoe as it is often called actually reffers to it's circular pattern, as in the circular stomach throw tomoe nage.

Hachiman, is a good refference, as one young King Sho fancied himself as a swashbuckler, hence the pirate symbol of the supposed god of war.

Okinawa actually uses the inyo Japanese version of yinyang as it's symbol.

But the propellar like circle is equated with Okinawa and it's traditions as a matter of common practice and or perception.

Shi Shi, Tomoe, InYo, and the Shri Castle and Gate are as Uchinan as whisper alley and the bannana show on BC street.

But I suppose you would have to have been there to understand.

[chizikunbo]

Originally posted by Steven Malanosk
Tomoe as it is often called actually reffers to it's circular pattern, as in the circular stomach throw tomoe nage.

Hachiman, is a good refference, as one young King Sho fancied himself as a swashbuckler, hence the pirate symbol of the supposed god of war.

Okinawa actually uses the inyo Japanese version of yinyang as it's symbol.

But the propellar like circle is equated with Okinawa and it's traditions as a matter of common practice and or perception.

Shi Shi, Tomoe, InYo, and the Shri Castle and Gate are as Uchinan as whisper alley and the bannana show on BC street.

But I suppose you would have to have been there to understand.
That is interesting:toast:

[Old Dragon]

Well since were not there how about enlightening us?

Mike O'leary

[Steven Malanosk]

I did not realize that Josh was so young before I replied "sorry Josh," and therefore will have to answer any queries on the extra subject matter that I added through private message Mr. Oleary.

No dis to Josh, but I was referring to wild Okinawa night life.

[Shikiyanaka]

The story with the three envoys brought before the Shôgun is not correct. This is clear because the story in the (first link) mentiones Zanna (Janna) Oyakata.

His name was Jana Oyakata Teidô, and Jana Teidô was his Chinese name. To be given Chinese names as some kind of reward for special persons was customary in Ryûkyû Kingdom times.

Jana Oyakata was one of the Sanshikan, the three ministers and consultants of the king. When Satsumas Shimazu clan conquered Ryûkyû in 1609, they took King Shô Nei (is it correct? I don't remember right now) and some of his higher officials were taken hostage to Satsuma. The Shimazu wanted them to sign a paper, which sounds like (only freely remebered):

"We, the Ryûkyû king and Sanshikan, admit, that the punishment of Ryûkyû through the Shimazu was a rightful act, because Ryûkyû did not pay allegiance to the Shôgun. Thus, we accept our punishment through the Shimazu as being rightful, and we swear that this and the following generations of Ryûkyû will never deceive the Shimazu...."

Ok , the text is far from being given literally, it is only about the content, that Ryûkyû had to swear that the invasion has been their own's fault...

Jana Oyakata Teidô refused to undersign any of the articles of that vow, but - other than in the boiling water story and according to George Kerr - he was simply taken to the side and decapitatet.

Also, this only happended in 1609 or 1610. Does anyone know when the Shô family crest first appeared???

Regards

[Mekugi]

That's called a Tomoe. It's the Kuki family crest, they have a huge gold and black tomoe on the Kumano Hongu shrine office.

BTW...http://www.familyemblem.com/


Originally posted by gmanry
Just as an interesting side note. The Ryukyu symbol is almost identical to the symbol for the Kukishin Ryu of the Kuki family. Morihei Ueshiba studied Kukishin ryu and it more than likely influenced his jo work and some of his esoteric teachings, the hiza garuma in Judo comes from the Kukishin Ryu, and it is a part of the Bujinkan lineage as well.

Unfortunately I don't know the symbol's history or origin in the Kukishin ryu. I just thought it was an interesting note.

PS

Here is a link to the homepage of the mainline Kukishin Ryu

http://www.shinjin.co.jp/kuki/ (http://http://www.shinjin.co.jp/kuki/)

[Shorinman]

I thought this link was interesting.

Click Here (http://216.239.37.104/search?q=cache:aO2_GtLYCgEJ:www.aisf.or.jp/~jaanus/deta/t/tomoemon.htm+mitsudomoe&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)

[Blackwood]

Nice on Shorinman! I like that explaination for its origins.

[Blackwood]

Went to the Woodward Dream Cruise on Saturday. Fabulous! The sun was in its glory, though, and I now have a bit of sunburn, right where my collar was open. And where my necklace with the Hachiman, Japanese god of war symbol was sitting. It is now burned into my neck!

[BudoGrrl]

One of the most famous women in Japan was Tomoe Gozen, a female warrior.

Tomoe was especially beautiful, with white skin, long hair, and charming features. She was also a remarkably strong archer, and as a swords-woman she was a warrior worth a thousand, ready to confront a demon or a god, mounted or on foot. She handled unbroken horses with superb skill; she rode unscathed down perilous descents. Whenever a battle was imminent, Yoshinaka sent her out as his first captain, equipped with strong armor, an oversized sword, and a mighty bow; and she performed more deeds of valor than any of his other warriors.
--Tale of the Heike1


http://www.koryubooks.com/Library/wwj1.html#History

Alex Schellinger

[chizikunbo]

Originally posted by Shorinman
I thought this link was interesting.

Click Here (http://216.239.37.104/search?q=cache:aO2_GtLYCgEJ:www.aisf.or.jp/~jaanus/deta/t/tomoemon.htm+mitsudomoe&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)
Thats was interesting, thanks ;)