Obi

[Robert Miller]

Do obi knots vary by ryu-ha, or are they pretty standard? If the knots vary, what are some of these knots, and can you offer links on how to tie them? Further, in the ryu-ha you study, is the color choice decided by you, your instructor, school head, or the ryu-ha?

Thank you very much for your consideration and any replies.

[DCPan]

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15828&highlight=obi

[Brian Owens]

Originally posted by DCPan
http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15828&highlight=obi
That was a good post. Glad you remembered it. It saves a lot of time when you don't have to rehash previous material.

One thing though; on page two of the referenced thread, the link to the "standard" kaku obi knot calls it a kituke knot. I've always refered to that one as a kai no kuchi musubi, or in English as a "Shellfish" knot. Anyone know if I'm confusing names?

[Brian Owens]

Originally posted by Robert Miller
...Further, in the ryu-ha you study, is the color choice decided by you, your instructor, school head, or the ryu-ha?
In traditional Japanese sword arts, belt color does not indicate rank nor have any particular meaning. A color should be chosen that either contrasts with, or matches, the keikogi.

Some schools have a "standard uniform" -- frequently either all blue (common in ZNKR Iai and some koryu), all black or, less frequently, all white (Muso Shinden Ryu, for example), or white uwagi with black or blue hakama (Marobashi Kai and Seiki Kai, for example).

Other schools, especially some koryu, treat the practice outfit the way "modern" people treat a sweatsuit -- as a reflection of personal style, with no standardized uniform within the dojo (except possibly for formal demonstrations).

With a monotone uniform the obi color usually is the same as the rest of the outfit. With a two-toned uniform it could either match the kimono/uwagi, or compliment it. For instance I've seen a light blue kimono worn with a dark brown hakama and light brown obi, a dark blue (kendo style) uwagi worn with a dark green hakama and medium blue obi, etc.

The best bet is to ask your sensei if he or she has a preference.

HTH.

[Jeff Hamacher]

Originally posted by Yagyu Kenshi
... on page two of the referenced thread, the link to the "standard" kaku obi knot calls it a kituke knot. I've always referred to that one as a kai no kuchi musubi, or in English as a "Shellfish" knot. Anyone know if I'm confusing names?

i've found that names for certain knots vary, and in some cases, different ways to tie knots of the same name! the website you're talking about does not call it a kituke knot; that's how the weblink is labelled, and is in fact a poor romanization of the Japanese kitsuke ("kimono wearing method"). just as you say, that knot is labelled kai no kuchi on the webpage itself. i've also seen it called otoko-musubi.

one other comment i can make in addition to the referenced thread is that katabasami (sometimes called ronin-musubi) doesn't create a big enough "bustle", which is a desirable shape for formal hakama wearing. this is why one is supposed to use ichimonji with hakama. katabasami is just a lot more practical for martial arts training, and in fact i prefer it even for formal hakama (it's easier to adjust or tighten up without having to untie anything).

[Brian Owens]

Originally posted by Jeff Hamacher
...the website you're talking about does not call it a kituke knot; that's how the weblink is labelled...just as you say, that knot is labelled kai no kuchi on the webpage itself. i've also seen it called otoko-musubi.
Ah, thank you. Hopefully starting in the fall I'm going to start Japanese language classes, and maybe in a year or two I'll be able to read Japanese Web pages.
Originally posted by Jeff Hamacher
one other comment i can make in addition to the referenced thread is that katabasami (sometimes called ronin-musubi) doesn't create a big enough "bustle", which is a desirable shape for formal hakama wearing. this is why one is supposed to use ichimonji with hakama.
Yamanaka Norio, founder of the Sodo Kimono Academy and past Chairman of the All-Japan Kimono Consultans Association suggests the kai no kuchi musubi for wear under a hakama. I suppose it's much a matter of personal preference; and, of course, he's talking about formal wear, not martial arts practice.

I saw a "pre-tied" obi with a kai no kuchi knot, sort of the Japanese equivalent of a clip-on tie. It accompanied a hakama with pre-tied himo with Velcro fasteners. I found it oddly amusing.

I want to get a book or something with all different kinds of Japanese knots. I've seen beautiful knots for tying gift packages, different knots for mens' and womens' kimono, even foods with knots of green onion or other plant matter. It's a whole art-form.

[A. Bakken]

Originally posted by Yagyu Kenshi
I want to get a book or something with all different kinds of Japanese knots. I've seen beautiful knots for tying gift packages, different knots for mens' and womens' kimono, even foods with knots of green onion or other plant matter. It's a whole art-form.

I agree, and I would like to get such a book myself. Does it exist?

[SLeclair]

Huge thanks to DCPan for the link to the old obi thread, and everyone who provided information in there (especially Renfield Kuroda, great links :)). I'll now be trying katabasami no musubi for Iai class. Feels much better and flatter than what I was previously using (which wasn't any of the methods mentionned I think).

Is it just me or does katabasami wrap the obi twice around the waist? I'm used to doing three times around. Just wondering :).

---
Sebastien L.

[Brian Owens]

Originally posted by SLeclair
Is it just me or does katabasami wrap the obi twice around the waist? I'm used to doing three times around. Just wondering :).
It depends on your waist size and the length of the obi. Three wraps would be good, but if you're built like me your lucky to get two wraps.

I really must go on a diet. ;)

[SLeclair]

Originally posted by Yagyu Kenshi
It depends on your waist size and the length of the obi. Three wraps would be good, but if you're built like me your lucky to get two wraps.

I really must go on a diet. ;)

Well, 10 to your 20 that I'm built bigger (maybe not vertically) than you :). It's just that I got a long obi to go with it..

And ditto on the diet thing... heheh.

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Sebastien L.