Kenjutsu dumbo

[Islander]

Happy Easter Everyone,

Just a query out of interest really.

I've no plan to try it (not that there is anywhere locally to me).

Some people were talking about Kenjutsu the other day & I realised I was unable to enter the conversation because I know nothing about it.

I would like to ask anybody on this forum if they could give a broad outline. I'd be especially interested in what gear is used/worn and how it is practiced as well as a more abstract outline.


Thanks

P Island(er) (24 carot Kenjutsu Dumbo)

[chrismoses]

Kenjutsu is something of a catch all phrase for Japanese sword techniques. *Generally* it implies koryu (an older Japanses tradition) and *generally* it focuses on more direct ways to use a sword once already drawn. After that, similarities between schools are more the exception rather than the rule. If you're really interested, pick up the Koryu Books (http://www.koryu.com/) excellent offerings, or at least surf around on their site for a while.

Also, as per forum rules, please sign all posts with your real first and last name. Hope this helps.

[Brian Owens]

Originally posted by Islander
...I would like to ask anybody on this forum if they could give a broad outline. I'd be especially interested in what gear is used/worn and how it is practiced as well as a more abstract outline...
Some schools use primarily the bokken, also known as bokuto -- a wooden "sword." Others use a padded bamboo practice weapon called a fukuro shinai. Some wear padded gloves and/or other armor, some don't.

Most feature use of a live blade at the higher levels, while a few start with a live blade quite early.

For a good broad outline click on this link: Japanese Sword FAQs (http://www.kendo-sask.com/swordfaq.htm)

[Charles Mahan]

I know making generalizations about kenjutsu is akin to making generalizations about vehicles, but how common is the use of shinken for anything other than tameshigiri in the "average" kenjutsu curriculum? Just curious.

[Brian Owens]

I can't reply with any personal knowledge, but I have seen videos of Shinkage Ryu masters performing paired kata with live blades in demos.

They cut bamboo first to show that the blades are live, then assume position to begin the kata.

Also, in the iai portion of the curricula, many use shinken at higher levels AFAIK.

[Musashi do]

If you have anymore questions ill be happy to answer.

[chrismoses]

Mr. Musashi, as per forum rules, real first and last name.

[Musashi do]

give me a break......

[Brian Owens]

Originally posted by Musashi do
give me a break......
You get one break here. You've had yours.

The rules are clearly stated at the bottom of each page, and also when you first signed up.

"Forum Rules:
Please sign your posts with your full name.
Profanity will not be tolerated.
Blatant commercial advertising is not allowed.
Treat your fellow E-Budo members with respect."

If you are unable or unwilling to obey the rules, then please refrain from posting. Casual browsers are welcome here, but all who post comments are required to sign their names.

This can be a first initial and last name, or a full name; but "handles" or nicknames do not count.

You've been warned twice. Further violations may result in your posts being deleted and your user account being cancelled.

[Steve Williams]

Originally posted by Musashi do
give me a break......

OK, thats your break.

Any more unsigned posts (signed by your real name) and those posts will be deleted/edited.

Consider this your first and only warning to follow the rules.

Forum Rules:
Please sign your posts with your full name.
Profanity will not be tolerated.
Blatant commercial advertising is not allowed.
Treat your fellow E-Budo members with respect.

[Charles Mahan]

Signing your name on every post is not as much of a hassle as it might first seem to be. Click on the user cp button at the top of any page. Choose Edit Profile and in the Signature Text area place your real name. Submit the modifications and your name will appear in all your posts automagically. You don't have to do anything else.

As you've noticed, the rule is strictly enforced. Look around and see how many people don't sign their names. The rule is enforced here to keep the BS level down. Trolls are fewer and farther between here, because people know their reputation is on the line. Makes people behave a little better. If you have a problem revealing your identity, then I'd suggest Samurai Forum, http://www2.g-com.ne.jp/~japan/cgi-bin301/ikonboard.cgi

You will not find the breadth and depth of experienced martial artists posting at Samurai Forum, but that forum does not require you to sign your real name.

[pgsmith]

I know making generalizations about kenjutsu is akin to making generalizations about vehicles, but how common is the use of shinken for anything other than tameshigiri in the "average" kenjutsu curriculum? Just curious.
Hi Charles,
I'm not sure just what qualifies as average (other than my swordsmanship, which is unfortunately very average! :)), but in our school you are expected to begin using shinken for kata after about five years or so of practice. (around nidan level)

Cheers,

[Charles Mahan]

Are you referring to two man kata or solo kata?

[Musashi do]

Is this better......

[Steve Williams]

Originally posted by Musashi do
Is this better......

Assuming that is your real name then, yes.

And welcome to e-budo.

[pgsmith]

Are you referring to two man kata or solo kata?
Sorry, didn't think about the confusion factor! I meant solo kata only. Two person kata are performed with bokken. I have heard of at least one school that has been known to run two man kata with shinken, but I don't think I would want to take that kind of chance myself! :)
Bokken are more than dangerous enough for me thanks!

Cheers,

[Richard Elias]

In our school students beging using shinken for iai within the first month of training. Shinken are also used for the solo long kata that we have, but bokken are used too. Bokken are used for paired kata, but eventually they will do them with shinken on occasion also. The only reason shinken are not used more often for paired practices is because of the damage they inflict on the blades. Safety of course is also a concern, but students are not expected to go full speed right from the beginning, they work up slowly and carefully using kata they have already become adept at with bokken.

[Charles Mahan]

What kind of an edge do your shinken have? Do you start new students off with what one instructor I have trained with recently would call "stupid sharp"? Or are they a bit duller than razor sharp? Just curious.

[Richard Elias]

Actually they use whatever is available. If they have their own sword they use it, however sharp it is. If they are borrowing one of ours then it just depends one which one they end up using. In other words, how sharp it is not the concern, that they are training with a real sword is.

We don't protect our students from the danger of using a real sword, but train them to accept the responsibility of it and teach them respect for the weapon they are learning to use. We feel it is important that this is begun as early as possible. Overcoming the fear of working with a real blade can take time. They begin this with iai excersizes because in these they alone are in total control of the sword and are allowed to develope their confidence at their own pace. As their technical skill increases so does their confidence, and the fear becomes less and less. With each fear that is overcome another level is gradually introduced. Eventually knowledge and experience win out over fear of using a sharp sword, while still giving it the respect it is due for the damage it can inflict.

[Richard Elias]

Actually they use whatever is available. If they have their own sword they use it, however sharp it is. If they are borrowing one of ours then it just depends one which one they end up using. In other words, how sharp it is not the concern, that they are training with a real sword is.

We don't protect our students from the danger of using a real sword, but train them to accept the responsibility of it and teach them respect for the weapon they are learning to use. We feel it is important that this is begun as early as possible. Overcoming the fear of working with a real blade can take time. They begin this with iai excersizes because in these they alone are in total control of the sword and are allowed to develope their confidence at their own pace. As their technical skill increases so does their confidence, and the fear becomes less and less. With each fear that is overcome another level is gradually introduced. Eventually knowledge and experience win out over fear of using a sharp sword, while still giving it the respect it is due for the damage it can inflict.

[Richard Elias]

Sorry about the double post, I tried to delete it but it wouldn't let me.