JSA in SD?

[wikang]

I have a feeling this has been discussed already, so I'm very sorry. But I was wondering whether there are any traditional iai-jutsu or kenjutusu dojos in San Diego, California or any kind of koryu in general. I am very interested in learning, and would like to watch a class in JSA or koryu in general. I'm curious though, to learn iaijutsu or kenjustu, should we already have a sword ready? If so should it be a live blade or can it be a dull iaido sword? I'm asking because the one website I found said you had to have a traditional live blade. Also, does anyone know whether the koryu dojos have special requirements, I know it sounds dumb, but for some reason I feel as though they wouldn?ft like me, because I'm pretty young, 19 years old, and they may think I lack commitment. Unfortunately I'm not even sure whether or not I will lack commitment, but I would like to observe class. Thanks in advance. Sorry, one more question, how much should I expect to be paying for koryu arts? I always have some dreaded feeling that it will be very high, and I shouldn't bother trying to learn until I grow older, and much more financially secure...
Also, I made a lot of assumptions about koryu in general in the above paragraph, so if people can correct me, I would appreciate it. thank you

William Kang

[Ralutin]

Hi William,

Here are a few websites you can check out:

Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu iaijutsu: http://www.jikishin-kai.com

Nami Ryu Aiki Heiho: http://www.dojoofthefourwinds.com/index.html

Suio Ryu: http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24689&highlight=Suio+Ryu (Note: the Suio Ryu Study Groups website is currently down)

Southern California Kendo Federation:: http://www.eanet.com/sckf (one dojo in National City)


I would contact each of these dojo to confirm pricing, schedules and to arrange for a visit. Like most good martial arts dojo, they will welcome visitors and observers, especially if they make prior arrangements.

Most Japanese sword schools will require that you purchase a sword (wooden, replica or live) for practice. Consult with the sensei of whatever school you're interested in to see what is required.

As far as pricing goes, I know that kendo is one of the more economical martial arts at $20-25 per month plus $65 in yearly dues. Equipment, of course, is a different story. Again, consult with the dojo to determine their fee schedule as different organizations will have varying prices.

Choosing a school/sensei that you are comfortable with will help give you the committment that you need. If you like what you are doing, most likely you'll want to keep coming back and training, right? Observe as many classes as you can, ask many questions and decide whether your training will fit within your current lifestyle and schedule.

I hope this helps.

[wikang]

Thank you Ralutin for your help, take care.
William Kang

[Kaoru]

Hi!

There is also Toyama Ryu Batto-do in San Diego taught by Peer Halperin-sensei. Here is the website:

Nakamura ha Toyama Ryu batto-do

http://www.tmac-sd.com/sword.htm

Click on "contents" to get to page with contact information.

And, I did a search here, and found a post saying there is Muso Shinedn Ryu in San Diego, but found nothing beyond that, even when I did a search on the web itself, so if anyone knows anything else, please say.

Yes, the Suio Ryu page is down still, as far as I know. I jus tried it, and can't get to it. But, still keep trying, so you can learn more about it. Anyway, you can contact Brian Stokes regarding Suio Ryu, as he runs the study group in San Diego. He is on this board.

And, Ralutin-san's MJER site he gave you of a dojo in SD, you should look into, too. I had that one to give you too, but he beat me to it! :D

Well, I hope this helps!

[Kusarigama]

Originally posted by Kaoru
Hi!


Yes, the Suio Ryu page is down still, as far as I know. I jus tried it, and can't get to it.

Our Website is down for extensive reconstruction. We will let everyone know when it is back on line.

[Brian Stokes]

William,

Call me. 858-847.0954 during the day or 858-755-6447 (keikoba).

Brian Stokes
Suio Ryu Iai Kenpo
San Deigo (Carmel Valley Area)

[Michael Tussa]

It looks like the suio ryu web page is still down. The old one looked nice. I can hardly wait to see the new one. Where about in Anaheim are you located?

[Kusarigama]

Originally posted by Michael Tussa
It looks like the suio ryu web page is still down. The old one looked nice. I can hardly wait to see the new one. Where about in Anaheim are you located?

The new website is just about finished. It should be up very soon.

We are located in Anaheim near the corner of Euclid and Cerritos Avenues, a few miles south of the 5 Freeway.

Please e-mail me at sunehishigi@aol.com if you would like additional information.

[Eric Spinelli]

While not associated with a particular koryu, their are also iaido classes at North County Aikikai (www.ncaikikai.com) in Solana Beach. These classes require a iaito, however, and are separate from the aikido (which does include aikiken and aikijo). I am only a beginning aikidoka in the dojo, but thought I would at least mention another opportunity for iaido in the SD area.

-Eric

[Michael Tussa]

Eric,

I believe the gentleman who started the thread was asking specifically for a koryu or at least iaijutsu and/or kenjutsu in San Diego. Iaido really is just the art of drawing the sword. A koryu is a battle system were you face and train with a real opponent.Kind of like sparring. I myself am in the process of finding a true koryu or iaijutsu/kenjutsu school here in Ft Lauderdale. While Iaido uses iaito you opponent is always imaginary. The person who asked the question is very fortunate living so close to a real koryu. check this out: http://www.koryubooks.com/guide/suio.html

If I had all those options here in Southern Fla I wouldn't waste my time, talent or money on iaido, but go with a koryu.

My 2cents

Michael

[Charles Mahan]

Wow! For someone who seems to have his facts mixed up, you are certainly stating things in a rather certain fashion.

Koryu means "old school/stream". Typically the definition applies to ryu who trace their lineage back before the Meiji Restoration. That's it. It does not equate with a Sogu Bujutsu(sp?), which is what you described.

You have some other strange ideas about what Iaido is and isn't. There are kumitachi(two man forms) in most koryu iai schools, and at some point in your training you are usually expected to transition to a shinken and away from an iaito. For the style I study, that point comes somewhere between 5 and 10 years or so. I'll wager the average Iaidoka spends more time over his training career swinging a live blade than the average sogo bujutsu guy, who must split his time between a wide range of disciplines. Not that that is bad mind, just trying to counter the idea that Iaido means Iaito. Not at all the case.

That said, my vote would be for Suio Ryu Iai Kenpo as well in the San Diego area, although I believe this is where the Bugei Trading Company guys are based. Wouldn't hurt to check them out as well.

[Michael Tussa]

Charles,

I never stated that iaido doesn't use shinken. I stated that iaido and iajutsu have an iaito in common, but this is were the commonality ends. Reading my response above again I can see that I worded my response poorly. I meant to say that both have the iaito in common unlike kendo for example.

You have a valid point that you average iaidoka spends more time "swinging" a live blade than a iaijutsu/kenjutsu practioner. After all you don't want to injure you partner in a live sparring situation with a shinken. I have a boxing and Wing Chun background and am in the process of transitioning into japanese sword arts. My analogy would be that iaido is to iaijutsu/kenjutsu what tai chi is to Kung Fu. It's a form. I never said that iaido is bad or wrong, but given the excellent choices that the original poster has I would pick the koryu hands down.

You said: "There are kumitachi(two man forms) in most koryu iai schools, and at some point in your training you are usually expected to transition to a shinken and away from an iaito." Does that mean that kumitachi is performed with shinken by experienced iaidoka? I'm a novice, but that sounds dangerous to me.

I have no koryu close by. I'm debating to start kendo and iaido at the same time to get iaito training and some fighting techniques. It just seems that back in the old days they trained everything together and not seperate.

As far as Bugei goes they are highly respected for their great swords, but don't they basically just practice cutting (tameshigiri)? I might be wrong and haven't really investigated what style they practice. Is it iaido nad tameshigiri combined? I have been told here on this board that they are legit.

[Brian Stokes]

Hi All,

I agree with Mr. Mahan regarding the iaito/iaido thing. "Iaido" is an odd term used by many, many Japanese sword schools for their sword art. I myself used a shinken for years.


However, Mr. Mahan stated:

"I'll wager the average Iaidoka spends more time over his training career swinging a live blade than the average sogo bujutsu guy, who must split his time between a wide range of disciplines."


Truth is I, and those who I know who practice an older bujutsu style, just spend MORE time at it. The two to four hour a week practice class/classes have long disappeared. The minimum in our school (at least in San Diego) is 8 hours a week. (Class ended at 11:30 last night.) And this is the average. People find that the time spent practicing simply expands to accomodate more weapons.

Another gripe I have, and I repeat this is MY opinion only and does not reflect that of any other person that I know of, and slightly off topic, is the way that the "koryu" word that gets thrown around. Most people equate "koryu" with "real." A line drawn on the calander in the late 1800's is no way to judge the quality of a system. Consider, if a school had been established 6 months before the restoration it would be considered koryu. I wish people would use that word far less frequently and certainly not use it to imply that a system of swordsmanship is of obvious better quality simply because of the date it was established.

That being said, for ME there is nothing like a sogu bujutsu.

My two yen,

Brian Stokes

[Charles Mahan]

Granted Brian. I was referring to average times, not all cases, and over a lifetime of practice as opposed to the typical weak. Still it was a very rough estimate at best meant to do no more than emphasize the assertion that iaito are a beginners weapon for most.

I tend to agree with you on the overuse of koryu. In this case Mr. Tussa needs to do some more homework. He originally seemed to have confused the term koryu with sogo bujutsu, and while sogo bujutsu is a great thing, that does not imply that iai is bad, which was Mr. Tussa's assertion.

Mr. Tussa, I suggest you search the forum archives for iaido and iajutsu in the same search or perhaps just jutsu and do. The difference, or lack there of, between the two terms has been discussed ad naseum, and I doubt anyone is really in any hurry to dig it back up.

Long story short(relatively), iaido is not to iaijutsu what kendo is to kenjutsu. And Iaido is not to iaijutsu what tai chi is to kenjutsu. Iaido is nothing more and nothing less than a form of kenjutsu which specializes in cutting from the draw in addition to continued combat once the sword is drawn. Yes, there is a great deal of emphasis on solo waza, because iai requires a lot of emphasis on the draw, which means you have to have something to draw and something to draw from. Since there is nothing safer than an iaito which even comes close to approximating this process, most of this training is in fact done solo under the eyes of an experienced instructor. Two man waza are introduced into the study after the kihon have been reasonably well ingrained. Almost exclusively with bokuto, although I have seen video of high ranking folks doing kumitachi with what appeared to be shinken, although on video shinken and iaito are impossible to distinguish. The training curriculum is a bit different than some other koryu. Much like others. That doesn't necessarily make it bad.

Please don't anyone blow this up. What I wrote above is not especially controversial. It's all stuff that was reasonably hammered out in previous threads.

[nicojo]

Gee, call me a rural boy, but I thought SD meant South Dakota. But I:m from Wyoming anyway.

Too bad, I was interested to know.

As far as kumitachi used with shinken, bokken or iaito...see you in ten!

Tameshigiri and use of shinken varies from ryu to ryu. Don:t make a value judgement if you go to a practice and see no one using shinken, maybe you will be expected to wait a while, gambatte kudasai. But in Shinkendo you use a shinken fairly quickly AFAIK (Mr. Scott, please clarify if I am wrong thank you. ) We practice both at times, but of course skill level and cost are a factor, it:s economics, not philosophy or whatever. I certainly can:t afford a shinken right now, but am grateful when Sensei lets me use his for kata. And Tameshigiri is great if you can afford the real mats, but as a dojo exercise...well everyone should chip in. Again, economics.

By the way our ryu is iaido, iaijutsu being, as Mr. Mahan said, less of a distinction compared to kendo/kenjutsu. As far as sogo-bujutsu goes, well, I am jealous, but learning the sword and practicing neija keeps me busy enough for now. Again, see you in ten.

[nicojo]

Eh, locked out of edit window. I didn:t mean we practice Shinkendo, but both tameshigiri and with shinken. I am almost positive Shinkendo is in San Diego too, you may want to check out their website. But of course Suio-ryu is the ryu of Ogami Itto, so there you go (do you guys ever get tired of that, or does it ever come up besides on e-budo? Cheers).

`Iaido is just the art of drawing the sword` LOL!!!! Whatever. Stick around for a while past the first nukitsuke, my friend. And sometimes the tekki is more real than you think.

[Shihogiri]

But of course Suio-ryu is the ryu of Ogami Itto, so there you go (do you guys ever get tired of that, or does it ever come up besides on e-budo?

Not really, I believe most budoka can discern the difference between anime and the real deal. :-)

- Ken Hester

[Brian Stokes]

Hi All,

I really don't think Mr. Tussa needs to do his homework. I think everyone else needs to do their homework. Very few even know, much less understand, the term "sogu bujutsu." If one "did their homework" and read through this website almost anyone would conclude that the term "koryu" denoted that a system was a sogu bujutsu and therefore a combat style. I personally have seen demonstrations of "koryu" that have nothing to do with combat. I have also witnessed (and heavily participate in) a sogu bujutsu which would be defined as a "combat koryu." "Iaido," IMHO has nothing to do with combat, per se, except to contain and control one's own ego.

By the way, the term "combat" gets thrown alot around here too. How do you define "combat?" Are you referring to a battelfield situation (aka the Marines, God bless them ALL) or are you referring to a dueling situation? Or do you believe that by swinging a blade around you are in a combat situation?

Please understand that I think that all sword styles are relevant and accomplish what goals THEY have. Some people prefer target shooting, some combat shooting, some collecting guns. The fact that the musketeers of France used a rapier (not really a battlefield weapon) made their swordsmanship no less efficient than that practiced at, say Crecy or Jerusalem. Time periods dictated sword use.

(There is a GREAT book out there by the way, BY THE SWORD. I will post the author's name soon. It is a good read and covers the use of the sword all over the world from the first sword to today.)

As to the Okami Itto thing ... doesn't bother me at all. Funny how some obscure writer could bring the Suio Ryu to the forefront. I personally gave up and have a license plate frame that reads, "Okami Itto in Training." :D

Hope everyone is having a great week!

Class starts at 7:00pm. The doors are open.

Brian Stokes

[Brian Stokes]

For those interested there is a great article on the Suio Ryu to be found in Kendo World, Volume 2, No. 2. (I think that is right.) Anyone interested in seeing a copy in .pdf of the article can contact me at webmaster@sandiegokoryu.com or you can send me a PM.

Later,

Brian Stokes

[Brian Stokes]

Charles -- sent you a PM

Brian

[Charles Mahan]

Originally posted by Brian Stokes
Hi All,

I really don't think Mr. Tussa needs to do his homework. I think everyone else needs to do their homework. Very few even know, much less understand, the term "sogu bujutsu." If one "did their homework" and read through this website almost anyone would conclude that the term "koryu" denoted that a system was a sogu bujutsu and therefore a combat style. I personally have seen demonstrations of "koryu" that have nothing to do with combat. I have also witnessed (and heavily participate in) a sogu bujutsu which would be defined as a "combat koryu." "Iaido," IMHO has nothing to do with combat, per se, except to contain and control one's own ego.
Brian Stokes

You have your experiences and opinions. I have mine, and they are apparently in conflict. Let it drop. I think I understand where you're coming from, I just disagree on your conclusion that "Iaido" has nothing to do with combat.

[renfield_kuroda]

Originally posted by Brian Stokes
If one "did their homework" and read through this website almost anyone would conclude that the term "koryu" denoted that a system was a sogu bujutsu and therefore a combat style.

I always wonder: is this definition of the word 'koryu' intentional or accidental?
As a Japanese speaker, permanent resident, and martial artist practicing styles well over 300 years old, I take koryu to mean what it means in Japanese: "classical" or "traditional", as in founded at least before Meiji, and taught in the same way it has always been taught -- from teacher to student, with intent.
At least in the Japanese language, there is no 'sogo-bujutsu' implied; here in Japan that distinction is quite clear. But whenever I have discussions outside of Japan (specifically in the USA) all of a sudden koryu = "really old combat-oriented sogo-bujutsu."

Just always thought it interesting.

Regards,

r e n

[hyaku]

Originally posted by Michael Tussa
Eric, If I had all those options here in Southern Fla I wouldn't waste my time, talent or money on iaido, but go with a koryu.

My 2centsMichael

Sorry Mr Tussa, but it all sounds a bit snobby to me. I am sure that the heads of Suio Ryu and MJER have a healthy respect for each other.

Having reached a reasonable level in Genbudo and Kobudo I would have to go with Renfield and say that some stuff is rather classical other newer. Its all with "intent".

[Nathan Scott]

Hi guys,

We actually do not have anyone teaching Shinkendo in San Diego at this time. We used to have someone years ago, but they are no longer part of our group. I believe he teaches Nakamura-ryu now.

In Shinkendo, we do move on to live blades relatively quickly. Good times, but we are also of the opinion that it is not necessary to train with iaito and/or live blades for most of our training time, for practical reasons.

I think everyone else needs to do their homework. Very few even know, much less understand, the term "sogu bujutsu."

Brian, "sogu" refers to things like funeral articles, disputes, cutting diagonally, and mutilation. Is that what you were going for, or was it by chance "sogo" (comprehensive)?

:D

[Brian Stokes]

Nathan,

I typed "Sogo" the way I have heard it pronounced on many occasions. Sort of like "Soke" which I have now seen spelled "Souke." Nonetheless, thanks for the spelling correction.
I was not referring to cutting at a funeral in a diagonally and mutilating manner, or any recombination thereof. :D

Brian

[T. ALVAREZ]

If living in the San Diego area and looking for Koryu bujutsu. I would strongly suggest The Suio Ryu group under Brian Stokes.

Other than that:

Shimabukuro Sensei:MJER
Peer HAlprin Sensei: Nakamura Ryu Batto Do


That's it!

[Michael Tussa]

Hello Everyone,

What a great way to revive an old thread. Many different view points. Thanks for the great feedback. I meant in no way to come across as a snob, but rather help an individual (the person who started the thread) to make a decision on where to get his training. His question was:
But I was wondering whether there are any traditional iai-jutsu or kenjutusu dojos in San Diego, California or any kind of koryu in general. I am very interested in learning, and would like to watch a class in JSA or koryu in general.
Since he was specifically asking for iaijutsu/kenjutsu and/or koryu and he is very fortunate in that San Diego offers exactly that with the Suio ryu. Just read the posts that Brian Stokes and Britt Nichols have done in the past. These guys know what they are talking about.

I guess I was lacking the proper definitiion of koryu, but I stand by my view of iaido. A quick google search of iaido (MJER) brought me to http://www.iaido.org/iaido.htmliaido.org
It clearly states in the "what is iaido" section: The Iaidoka (a practitioner of iaido) wields a sword: not to control the opponent, but to control himself. Iaido is mostly performed soloas a series of Waza. The Iaidoka executes various techniques against single or multiple imaginary opponents.

The above definition hardly sounds like combat practice to me. Again since I have a boxing background I don't think that shadow boxing with an imaginary opponent would have adequately prepared to face a real opponent. That was my point. I never said iaido was bad, but given the superb choices go with the koryu.

Sorry Mr Tussa, but it all sounds a bit snobby to me. I am sure that the heads of Suio Ryu and MJER have a healthy respect for each other. I have a healthy respect for MJER. In fact I am planning on studying MJER and Kendo. Again the gentleman who started the thread was asking for iaijutsu/kenjutsu/koryu not iaido.


Michael
BTW you guys can call me Michael.

[Charles Mahan]

See what I mean Brian?

[Charles Mahan]

I'll take one more swing at this, but I'm probably gonna wish I hadn't.


Yes Iaido is practiced mostly solo. As is Iaijutsu BTW. Like I tried to state above there is no real difference between the terms. Boxing is very different and here's why.

The primary thing that sets Iai styles apart from other systems is the emphasis on cutting immediately as a part of the draw. It's not draw then cut, it's part of the draw. That sets up some fundamental challenges to designing a training curriculum.

1) If you want your students to focus on the draw, then they must spend a lot of time working on that aspect of the art. Certainly not to the exclusion of what happens after the draw but a large amount of time nonetheless.

2) To properly practice cutting from the draw, you must have a blade, and a live blade at that. You will never gain a high degree of mastery without training primarily with a live blade. Bokuto, even with modern plastic saya simply don't behave in the same fashion that the real thing does. Neither do unsharpened swords, be they steel or aluminum. A live blade will ensure that you correct your blade alignment and other aspects unique to cutting from the draw in ways that nothing else can replicate.

3) Two man practice with live blades is dangerous beyond reason. It's a great way to ruin students before they become proficient enough to pass on what they have learned to the next generation and is thus not a way to keep a ryu alive.

4) Two man practice with bokuto is better than nothing, but is not going to give the students the ability to properly practice nukitsuke(drawing cuts).

So given that these are the requirements for designing a curriculum to emphasize the drawing aspect of the art, what alternative do you really have to large amounts of solo waza under the eye of a well trained instructor suplemented with two man work with bokuto? Other schools do iai as well as spending large amounts of time doing two man work, but they are not iai schools. They are not as concerned with that first critical moment of a fight as we are. Since we intend to dominate those first critical moments, that's where we spend the bulk of our training time. Do we spend all our time working on the draw? Heavens no. There's a lot more training that takes place after that first cut. Most of our waza have between 1 and 4 additional cuts and tsukis that occur after the nukitsuke. Then there are the two man forms which are thrown in to make it easier to work on the aspects of combat that are difficult to work on solo. Aspects such as mai, timing, reading your opponent, etc.

It's not really a question of whether or not it is combat oriented. Only whether or not you like the way the curriculum is laid out. If you don't. More power to you. But don't think for a second that Iai is not combat oriented. Or if you think so. Be my guest, but don't be suprised if an iaidoka chooses to contradict you.

As for the quote, I'll just point out that there is a dualism inherent in modern weapon arts. They serve no practical purpose whatsoever. We all train as hard as we can to keep the arts as vibrant and true to their roots as possible(or at least we should), but we're all in it for something else. None of us expects to end up in combat one day, but we should all be training as if we might. Anything else is not Iaido instead of Iaijutsu, it's kenbu instead of Iaido and nothing more.

I've trained with Diamantstein-sensei, and believe me when I tell you that no matter what you see written on his website, his training is very much grounded in the reality of combat. Does that preclude what is written? No. Have I ever heard him or any other instructor say anything resembling that in class? No. It just doesn't work that way. It's almost like whatever character building aspects of the arts exist, it is expect of the student to pick it up via osmosis. It isn't taught.

[Michael Tussa]

2) To properly practice cutting from the draw, you must have a blade, and a live blade at that. You will never gain a high degree of mastery without training primarily with a live blade. Bokuto, even with modern plastic saya simply don't behave in the same fashion that the real thing does. Neither do unsharpened swords, be they steel or aluminum. A live blade will ensure that you correct your blade alignment and other aspects unique to cutting from the draw in ways that nothing else can replicate.

Live blade only?? Why can't I practice my cut with an iaito if it has the same weight/balance as my shinken? Why can't I replicate that with an iaito unless of course I want to cut a real target (like in tameshigiri). Kinda sounds like you need a cowboy hat in order to be a real Texan. ;)

You focus very much on the iai part and I full agree with you. One has to perfect the draw first. My emphasis is that a bujutsu system covers more than just the art of drawing the blade. Again, I have no problem with iaido.

[T. ALVAREZ]

You guys crack me up!

[Michael Tussa]

Isn't this what this board is all about? One can't take most of the statements, comments, or suggestions too seriously.

Thanks for the cheer.

[Scott Irey]

"WE" are not amused.....

[Charles Mahan]

There's a big difference between:
I have no problem with iaido.

and

If I had all those options here in Southern Fla I wouldn't waste my time, talent or money on iaido, but go with a koryu.

I'm glad we talked it through. The internet is not a good medium for conveying subtleties. If you don't say what you mean, some will not understand what you are really getting at.

It's not the cutting aspect itself that can't be worked on with an iaito, although as Nathan Scott is fond of pointing out, Iaito just don't cut the same as shinken usually. They're just a little... different. The real problem comes just at the last moments during nukitsuke when the kissaki(tip of the blade) is still inside the koiguchi(mouth of the saya). Although this is not true in all iai arts, in MJER, the cut starts while the kissaki is still INSIDE the koiguchi. If your alignment is a little off, or your timing is a little off, the kissaki of your shinken will shave up the inside of your saya. If it's a lot off you can crack the saya wide open and cut into the palm of your hand. There are similar problems during noto(putting the sword back). Without a shinken you just can't really work on these subtleties, because an iaito won't give you enough feedback. What I mean is that with a shinken, relatively light contact between the ha and the inside of the saya will be felt because the blade will dig in and cut a little. You know immediately if your angle isn't right, or your timing is a little off. That's not nearly as true with a dull iaito. You just don't get the right kind of feedback.

You certainly can, and should train with an iaito until you reach a point that your sensei thinks you have a pretty good grasp of these issues, but without a shinken you'll never quite get there.

[hyaku]

Originally posted by Michael Tussa
Hello Everyone,

I guess I was lacking the proper definitiion of koryu, but I stand by my view of iaido. A quick google search of iaido (MJER) brought me to http://www.iaido.org/iaido.htmliaido.org It clearly states in the "what is iaido" section:prepared to face a real opponent. That was my point. I never said iaido was bad, but given the superb choices go with the koryu.

I have a healthy respect for MJER. In fact I am planning on studying MJER and Kendo. Again the gentleman who started the thread was asking for iaijutsu/kenjutsu/koryu not iaido.
Michael
BTW you guys can call me Michael.

I think most people would agree that the term jutsu usually applies to older Ryu and that nowadays people like to refer to things as Do. There are a lot of threads on that. In reality no one kills each other any more. So to me its just a name having done both and knowing what they have to offer. So suggesting Iai seemed to be Ok to me although I didnt suggest it anyway.

But your quick google search gave you a rather shallow view as to the principles of Iai either jutsu or Do.

Imaginary opponents sound a bit shallow to me. Creative visualization rings more true. The ability to train on ones own as well as in pairs is to me an essential study. With all the practice I do I cannot always have some of equal or higher level to train with. Singular practice can be essential in kenjutsu too if you understand it. Soke often meets me a few days after a practice together and says. Mmm you have improved. Its all down to practicing in between with that imaginary guy. So I would never knock it.

I didn't read all of the thread in detail but didnt anybody mention Tachi Uchi no Kurai. Last time I looked that's where the Iai combat training came in.

As an Iaidoka I don't knock Kenjutsu. As a kenjutsuka I dont knock Iai. The same goes for the rest. What the person who stated the thread needs to know is. To learn the sword, we try to learn the heart. If we cant do that then "Stay out of the dojo".

If you push your ryu with some kind of attitude like "Doesnt sound like real combat practice to me" I would not want to join your group whatever its called. I see little here in shouted out in block print they conveys the good spirit and philosophy of sword arts.

Mr Kang, you seem to be a nice polite guy. They are not all prima donnas in these groups and practices. Shop around and I am sure you will find something that suits you. For most of us its the companionship we show to each other and to other groups and faceted sword arts that makes Budo what it is. Please don't be put off by the thread.

[wikang]

Mr. Colin thanks for the advice. Please don't call me Mr. anything though, I'm a 19 year old college student, it kind of creeps me out. :D I found the recent posts kind of interesting, but I would like to take the time to point out that I wrote my original post 2 months ago... Then suddenly two months later the post became active again, kind of weird. FYI I did join Suio Ryu study group with Brian Stokes, mainly because of the companionship that you mentioned Mr. Colin. Thanks again to those in Budo world. Take care and train hard.
Oh and is it me, or does everything seem like a hundred times harder than it looks ;)

William Kang

[Charles Mahan]

Hyakutake-san,
Yes, I did point out Tachi Uchi no Kurai. And for the most part I'd have to say this has been the most polite thread on this subject that we have seen yet.

Kang-san,
Congradualations on signing up with Suio Ryu. You are really quite fortunate to have a koryu art of any variety nearby. The net is full of people looking in their area, who simply have no options whatsoever. And yes, it's all considerably harder than most people expect it to be. Of course if it was easy, everyone would do it and nobody would need instruction.

[waves4ryan]

Originally posted by wikang

Oh and is it me, or does everything seem like a hundred times harder than it looks ;)

William Kang

My thoughts exactly, William, as was all-to-apparent in my personal frustration last Thursday during tachi iai kata. Oh well, some days are diamonds, some days are rocks. We're glad to have you in the San Diego study group. Ryan and Christy

[Brian Stokes]

Hi All,

New website for San Diego Suio crew - www.sandiegoswordschool.com.

Thanks!

Brian Stokes