Ranks within Koryu

[cxt]

Generic question.


Are there "ranks" within the standard koryu structure??

Reason I ask is that I seem to recall the use of a term that denoted a "expert" within the structure of a given ryu.

But NOT a "receiver of all techniques" aka Menkyo.

Again I may just be remembering it wrong, the reason that I remember it was that it "sounded" so odd.

Any ideas??

Chris Thomas

[Neil Yamamoto]

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=304983#post304983

Nathan Scott posted this in the AJJ forum, and I think this is what you are hunting for with the question.

[cxt]

Neil

Thanks for your help.

I missed that one.


Chris Thomas

[hyaku]

I just added a little to that other thread to make thinks clear from a point of view of the Ryu I belong to.

Others may differ but it has been my experience that Menkyo Kaiden like all other Shogo is special, but it is also awarded as an honorary title.

There really is little substitute for teaching everything to one person with the paperwork as an added bonus. And teachers are preferential in what they teach to who with that in mind. Its not the sessions in a daily dojo. Its the weekends in Soke's dojo and who gets invited that counts. I have seen Soke push his successor really hard and jokingly say, "You know why I am doing that".

As we all know Kobudo seems to have a history of not writing things down. If that's a secretive method or not I dont know but from where I stand I see little change.

Many people get all these awards. Some of them God forbid masturbate and stick them under their name. But it's the way they got them that counts. Watching all the practice and the demo's we "know" who's the boss!

[MarkF]

Others may differ but it has been my experience that Menkyo Kaiden like all other Shogo is special, but it is also awarded as an honorary title.


Well, sure Colin, all grading is honorary, be it dan-I or menjo. It can be nothing more than a technicality. Most can see who has the kaiden.

Considering the time from whence the titles/grades come, perhaps the passing down of secrets really stems from a lack of ability to write. At least in some cases, that is probably true.


Mark

[hyaku]

Hello Mark. Very true. Then if we do have stuff handed down by someone that could actaully write, we have to get an expert to explain it to us in modern Japanese.

By the way thanks a lot for you help on that Judo matter. Seems to be all under control this end.

[MarkF]

By the way thanks a lot for you help on that Judo matter. Seems to be all under control this end.


Hey, Colin, it was nothing, really, but I am glad it worked out.

You are right about having to translate per period, something I hadn't thought. In English, the same would have to be done. They really didn't know how to spell four-hundred years ago.;)

I was thinking of those within tribes who were the keepers of the history, or secrets and passed it down by oral transmission to those who were chosen for that very job. Sometimes, I think those guys understood better than the books and other written material from the times. Most research and resulting history comes with a healthy dose of opinion so it depends on the opinion of the outcome of the research rather than the actual truth. History does become more interesting, however, and much more fun.

That is probably truer in the passing down of a certain style of budo or anything as personal as body movements, though the easier it is to understand the basics (Scottish back wrestling), the less it needs to be changed to accomodate. But as one can teach what one knows, he can't control what the next one interprets to be the tradition. Better to grasp the basics than the finer details in some cases, anyway.


Mark