Japanese hate foreign workers

[Exorcist_Fist]

Xenophobia soars as 30% hate idea of foreign workers in Japan


Nearly 30 percent of Japanese don't want foreign workers to come into the country to fill what is forecast to be a massive labor shortage in coming years, a Cabinet Office survey has showed.

Rising 6 points on the previous survey results from four years ago, 29.1 percent of the 2,075 Japanese canvassed said the idea of importing foreign labor to fill job spaces was "not good."

Anti-foreigner sentiment was also evident in respondents' answers to how they would deal with workers overstaying their visas, with 61.8 percent saying all those without valid permits "should be deported immediately."

Fourty-five percent of respondents said they would rather put women and the elderly to better use in the workforce than use foreigners, but added the would accept foreign workers in case of labor shortage. (Mainichi Shimbun, July 25, 2004)

[Mekugi]

Sieg heil!

Originally posted by Silent Dan

Xenophobia soars as 30% hate idea of foreign workers in Japan


Nearly 30 percent of Japanese don't want foreign workers to come into the country to fill what is forecast to be a massive labor shortage in coming years, a Cabinet Office survey has showed.

Rising 6 points on the previous survey results from four years ago, 29.1 percent of the 2,075 Japanese canvassed said the idea of importing foreign labor to fill job spaces was "not good."

Anti-foreigner sentiment was also evident in respondents' answers to how they would deal with workers overstaying their visas, with 61.8 percent saying all those without valid permits "should be deported immediately."

Fourty-five percent of respondents said they would rather put women and the elderly to better use in the workforce than use foreigners, but added the would accept foreign workers in case of labor shortage. (Mainichi Shimbun, July 25, 2004)

[Gene Williams]

That's great liberal editorializing...there is nothing in the article about "hating" foreign workers. They simply said it was a bad idea abnd that their own immigration laws should be enforced. It would not hurt us to increase our concerns in those areas...and a typical mindless liberal response in "sieg heil" from Mekugi. You guys just love to whine "ewwww!!! nazi" to anything that might restrict total license or anarchy.

[Steve Delaney]

Gene,

Do you know what it is like to live here?

Have you ever been refused entry to a premiere at a cinema because you're white, regardless of the fact that you bought a ticket in advance?

How about being talked about in the third person at the office, even though the people know you are there and fluent in the language?

How about this one that happened just last week, sitting in a crowded train and having everyone avoid sitting next to you because you're a different skin colour?

Can we say xenophobic?

[Gene Williams]

I've never lived there...was there in '72 for 8 weeks. I didn't experience any of the things you have mentioned, but I was a guest and did not speak the language.

[Jody Holeton]

72'?

This is 2004 man!

Money is tight and Tokyo is one of the most expensive places to live and the rest of the country isnt that far behind.

Foreigners are seen as entertainment, novelties and a means of making more money for Japan Inc.

I live in Korea now and they only thing really different is the cost of living and how much more money I save.

Gene, go to Tokyo for a year. See how it is then.

[Shimura]

I did live Japan, and basically my thoughts on the matter are this. There are some Japanese who are xenophobic and rascist, but the majority of the one's I knew were generally normal people. Then again that is probably why I associated with them, and not their narrow minded cousins. I even experienced a little xenophobia from a fellow kendoka at my old kendo dojo, who started on a tirade about gaijin this and gaijin that. But he was wrong, and sensei repirmanded him for his ignorance. But overall, I mean it wasn't any less racist then some places in the States. I live in the South now and there some ignorant people here who think anyone not white is no good.

[Soulend]

I've been on crowded trains in Japan and had no one sit near me. It was cool..I had room! Then I started to make funny noises and talk to my shopping bag just for good measure.

[hyaku]

I think perhaps the dojo is one of the only places I can expect normality. Its a good leveler as we all work hard together with the same aims. But that's as a regular not a visitor.

As for the rest? I rarely even venture out to new restarants. After being here so long the general apathy wears a bit thin.

When you can get on plane, fly a few hours away to another country and not even get stared at let alone talked about the mind boggles as to what's actually going through their brains.

I would have to say a guest is a guest. A totaly "On display" act for Japanese saying "Ai amu Intanshionaru". I have have Rotary Club function to go to tonight and will meet quite a few of those.

To change the thread a bit: I happened to turn on the TV last night to catch a Discovery Channel program on someone visiting Japan for Aikido. Yet another total bulls??t production of "Gaijin meets Japan"

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by Gene Williams
That's great liberal editorializing...there is nothing in the article about "hating" foreign workers. They simply said it was a bad idea abnd that their own immigration laws should be enforced. It would not hurt us to increase our concerns in those areas...and a typical mindless liberal response in "sieg heil" from Mekugi. You guys just love to whine "ewwww!!! nazi" to anything that might restrict total license or anarchy.
Gene, I think you mean "chaos". Anarchy is a political system that means "without leaders".
As to restricting our liberties, I'm sure you believe it's the right thing to do ("It would not hurt us to increase our concerns in those areas"), but for those of us who beleive in freedom of the individual, it's unacceptable. Our presence here enriches Japan by making the country more diverse and multicultural--never a bad thing. The US equivalent would be to deport all the black people, and I'm sure you're not arguing for that. (Are you?!) Xenophobia in Japan is a major problem. It is a synonym for racism, because the Japanese mistakenly believe themselves to be a homogenous people. Thus, any move to curb or restrict foreign ingress is a racist act.
Maybe if you came and lived here for a few years, you'd develop a better understanding.

[renfield_kuroda]

I would argue that the average Japanese person is no more or less racist than the typical American citizen.
The bigger issue w/Japan is that the xenophobic/racist policies are legitimized and legalized by politics, bureaucracy, and education.

For example:
* You can be born and raised in Japan, living in no other country your entire life, and still not be qualified to get Japanese citizenship. The best you'll get is 'permanent resident'. You'll have to take a Japanese language test to prove you're able to attend university, and you won't be qualified to fill any but the lowest-level government bureaucratic jobs...yet you pay taxes, insurance, pension, etc. like all other citizens (though you do not have the right to vote since you are not a citizen.)

* It is perfectly legal to discriminate based on race. While the letter of Japanese law is in sync w/international universal rights law, several cases that have gone through the courts have supported bars/restaurants/bath houses/hotels' "right to refuse service."

* As a foreigner in Japan, you can be stopped and questioned by a law enforcement officer or government official at any time, for any reason (or no reason.) Failure to show proper ID (your gaijin registration card, which you are required by law to carry with you 24/7) or to be non-compliant can lead to your arrest and deporture.

* You can be denied bank accounts, credit cards, rental housing, loans, etc. based simply on the fact that you are not Japanese. This is perfectly legal and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

Regards,

r e n

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by renfield_kuroda
I would argue that the average Japanese person is no more or less racist than the typical American citizen.
The bigger issue w/Japan is that the xenophobic/racist policies are legitimized and legalized by politics, bureaucracy, and education.
For example:
* You can be born and raised in Japan, living in no other country your entire life, and still not be qualified to get Japanese citizenship. The best you'll get is 'permanent resident'. You'll have to take a Japanese language test to prove you're able to attend university, and you won't be qualified to fill any but the lowest-level government bureaucratic jobs...yet you pay taxes, insurance, pension, etc. like all other citizens (though you do not have the right to vote since you are not a citizen.)
* It is perfectly legal to discriminate based on race. While the letter of Japanese law is in sync w/international universal rights law, several cases that have gone through the courts have supported bars/restaurants/bath houses/hotels' "right to refuse service."
* As a foreigner in Japan, you can be stopped and questioned by a law enforcement officer or government official at any time, for any reason (or no reason.) Failure to show proper ID (your gaijin registration card, which you are required by law to carry with you 24/7) or to be non-compliant can lead to your arrest and deporture.
* You can be denied bank accounts, credit cards, rental housing, loans, etc. based simply on the fact that you are not Japanese. This is perfectly legal and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.
Regards,
r e n
Ren, unless you are a member of the KKK, Americans at least tend to see people of other races as equally American, which is not the case in Japan; ethnicity maketh the Japanese. The other, legal examples that you cite just go to prove my point: you would never get away with such blatant racism in 21st century America. This is going to be a long fight for all of us.
(BTW, the noun is "deportation", not "deporture". ;) )
Best,

[Gene Williams]

Originally posted by Kimpatsu
Gene, I think you mean "chaos". Anarchy is a political system that means "without leaders".
As to restricting our liberties, I'm sure you believe it's the right thing to do ("It would not hurt us to increase our concerns in those areas"), but for those of us who beleive in freedom of the individual, it's unacceptable. Our presence here enriches Japan by making the country more diverse and multicultural--never a bad thing. The US equivalent would be to deport all the black people, and I'm sure you're not arguing for that. (Are you?!) Xenophobia in Japan is a major problem. It is a synonym for racism, because the Japanese mistakenly believe themselves to be a homogenous people. Thus, any move to curb or restrict foreign ingress is a racist act.
Maybe if you came and lived here for a few years, you'd develop a better understanding.

You misspelled "believe." The assumption that multi-culturalism and diversity are "good" for a society is current fadistic thinking. To a degree it may be true, but forcing it as a political agenda is destructive of the culture. The primary business of government should not be protecting and promoting minorities and insuring quotas of immigrants, legal or not. However, American liberals and meddlesome Brits and Europeans want to insure that the dismantling of American culture continues apace. I personally think that we need about ten years under someone like Francisco Franco, but my wife says I should not say that in public. :D :p

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by Gene Williams
You misspelled "believe."
No, I mistyped it. (New PC; still not used to the keyboard. I keep hitting what I think is the "Delete" key, but on this keyboard, the DEL key is in a different place, and I'm pressing the "Pause/Break" key. Aaaggghhh....! ;)
Originally posted by Gene Williams
The assumption that multi-culturalism and diversity are "good" for a society is current fadistic thinking. To a degree it may be true, but forcing it as a political agenda is destructive of the culture. The primary business of government should not be protecting and promoting minorities and insuring quotas of immigrants, legal or not. However, American liberals and meddlesome Brits and Europeans want to insure that the dismantling of American culture continues apace. I personally think that we need about ten years under someone like Francisco Franco, but my wife says I should not say that in public. :D :p
Does America have a culture? (Hollywood and MacDonalds do not a culture make.)
Is Japanese culture so fragile that it will break up and disappear when faced with people of different skin colours? I think not. Multiculturalism and ethnic diversity, however, are always good for society, for they broaden one's perspective and introduce one to new paradigms and modes of thought. Oh, and the role of government is to maximise everyone's freedoms. People should be allowed to live wherever they like. The only reason millions of Mexicans want to cross the Rio Grande is because the US has bullied their economy into the ground, so they have to go where the pickings are richer (even though as wetbacks they're on the lowest rung of the US social ladder).
Anyway, I still think you're a wimp. Franco? Surely a red-blooded fascist like you would prefer Mussolini or--dare I say it--Hitler?
Best,

[Gene Williams]

No...no Hitler or Mussolini. But Spain did pretty well under Franco and Americans used to go live there because there was little crime, peace and quiet, and our money was good there. I just believe that it is time for a more serious swing to the right...and, for that, Bush is a lightweight. Pat Buchanan might fit the bill:D

[Kimpatsu]

Pat Buchanan? The man who still believes in real witches, in this day and age? Yowser!

[Mekugi]

Originally posted by Gene Williams
That's great liberal editorializing...there is nothing in the article about "hating" foreign workers.

Gene,

Nearly 30 percent of Japanese don't want foreign workers to come into the country to fill what is forecast to be a massive labor shortage in coming years, a Cabinet Office survey has showed.

If that's not hate, I don't know what is.

Originally posted by Gene Williams
They simply said it was a bad idea abnd that their own immigration laws should be enforced.
See above quote.

Originally posted by Gene Williams
It would not hurt us to increase our concerns in those areas...and a typical mindless liberal response in "sieg heil" from Mekugi.

I am a republican Gene. I am pretty sure everyone here knows that I am conservative; barring you.

Originally posted by Gene Williams
You guys just love to whine "ewwww!!! nazi" to anything that might restrict total license or anarchy.

I call 'em as I see 'em.

[Kobe]

Originally posted by Gene Williams
No...no Hitler or Mussolini. But Spain did pretty well under Franco and Americans used to go live there because there was little crime, peace and quiet, and our money was good there. I just believe that it is time for a more serious swing to the right...and, for that, Bush is a lightweight. Pat Buchanan might fit the bill:D

As a half Spanish I found you comment very insulting and false.
First of all, why in the hell you thing that the History cares about what was good or bad in Spain for you Americans? What it matters for you about Franco is that for you Americans it was good place, quiet, you money safe and so on.......
Let me tell you that the world is bigger than USA, also that the Franco dictatorship it was one of the worst thing it happens to Spain, it cost the lives of thousands and thousands of people and return Spain to the caves, losing track of Europe for 40 years.
Refrain from make frivolous, false and ridiculous comments about a country you do not know anything at all.

[hyaku]

Well the future in Japan is far from a prediction. I get lots of facts at weekly meetings in the hope that some preparations can be made.

My recent local figures show a birthrate of 0.68 per family. Elementary school around the corner has only one class left before it closes down. That's all in a population of around 876,654. The education industry here will really get the chop in the future.

Also seventeen percent are already over sixty-five.

If they intend to sustain present levels I dont know where the labour will come from. Will simply winding things down give them the life they are used to without doing some kind of balancing act with foreign workers?

Recently the Japanese government is having meetings to arrange to bring over nursing staff from the Philippines. As 70% of the population there is under twenty I would hazard a guess and say you are going to see a lot more from there.

I spent a few years preparing papers for Chinese to come to Japan. That path is one big headache and far more complicated.

[Bill Gallant]

Question for everybody.
I've never been to Japan, (though I will do the tourist thing at sometime in my life), what has prompted outsiders to stay in a society that basically sees them as.... second class?
I know that most people in Japan don't care where you're from, but what about the laws and the degrading attitudes from other people who do care where you're from?
Is it worth practicing in Japan? There are some fantastic teachers in the west, so one does not have to live/train in Japan. While the dojo may be the great equalizer, that's only a small percentage of your time. Is it worth it?

[Kobe]

According to my experience, I found the best people in the dojos.

[Kopiller]

Like Kobe said i found the fascist coment of Gene Williams very insulting, Franco was like adlof Hitle or Benito Mussolini the only diference is that spain didnt fight on the WWII except for the "división azúl" Franco attempted to destroy the culture and languages of catalonia, galicia, and the basque country, send a lot of people to concentration camps that are like the nazi ones.

The only american culture is the culture of native americans, italians, english, africans..... the North American culture is a culture of diversity and multiculturality, like the spanish culture.

And the japanese culture its no diferent from another culture, coreans brought religion, chinese the caligraphy, the tempura is from spain and portugal, and they use a lot of words from other languages, only fear of the destruction of theyr cultres the ones that are not proud of their culture.

And please excuseme of destroying your language in this post :)

[Exorcist_Fist]

People who claim that a country could use a dictator are really saying "I hope someone comes along who hates the same people I hate, so I can !!!! them over". Generally these people have no idea what they themselves would suffer, because they are so busy imagining the vengeance they would wreak upon those with the audacity to hold a different view, or simply be different.

As for why I stay here, its simple economics. No job and no insurance in the US = move to Japan. Mobility = Employment.

And I am busy trying to get my Italian passport so I can work in the EU.

[hyaku]

Originally posted by Bill Gallant
Question for everybody.
I've never been to Japan, what has prompted outsiders to stay in a society that basically sees them as.... second class?......

Is it worth practicing in Japan? There are some fantastic teachers in the west, so one does not have to live/train in Japan. While the dojo may be the great equalizer, that's only a small percentage of your time. Is it worth it?

Well there are two side to the coin. I sometimes put up with crap but there are certain things that offset it such as the wife, food drink, reasonable weather and long holidays. Also actually getting paid very well at times to be a professional gaijin etc.

I know some of us appear to complain a lot sometimes but actually this is one of the few places that we actually can and find a sympathising ear from others in a similar situation. Its that and also to be honest, you get such unbelievable stuff happen here it needs a reality check. Did they really say that, do that, write that to me etc. Then someone says yep me too buddy. Join the club.

As to the second question, No I cannot find fantastic teachers in the West. Yes I do need to live a train here. Regardless of the time spent which is quite a lot in my case, its worth its weight in gold.

When I reach 25 for good or bad I will move on.

[Mekugi]

Originally posted by hyaku
When I reach 25 for good or bad I will move on.

Do you have a retirement plan?

[hyaku]

Originally posted by Mekugi
Do you have a retirement plan?

Yes of course.

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by hyaku
Yes of course.
So what is it?

[Mekugi]

Originally posted by hyaku
Yes of course.

Yeah! Share the wealth! Is the Japanese school system going to give you retirement...IRAs? Pieces of eight buried on some small coral island off Kyushu?

Myself, I am looking into IRAs and some bonds.

Along with two college funds for my two kids....egads..

[Exorcist_Fist]

Invest in Real estate. IRAs suck these days, and bonds are barely better.

[Maro]

Originally posted by hyaku
Well there are two side to the coin. I sometimes put up with crap but there are certain things that offset it such as the wife, food drink, reasonable weather and long holidays. Also actually getting paid very well at times to be a professional gaijin etc.



You should try being a "Professional Pom" in Australia - it isn't much different - especially with the Cricket:D :D :D

[hyaku]

Originally posted by Kimpatsu
So what is it?

Like most people I pay my pension and I have some saved and invested.

Also as a resident I qualify for karakikan. Also qualify in my country of origin for a pension.

Should get a monthy payment from one or both that will help out and not bite into what I have saved.

And yes I am retiring to a coral island. Seems to be a lot cheaper living here.

[Joshua Smith]

Originally posted by Kimpatsu

Does America have a culture? (Hollywood and MacDonalds do not a culture make.)


Kimpatsu, that has to be one of the most insulting, downright ignorant comments I've seen on a public forum to this day. Many Americans have respect for the Japanese (including me) and you'd think that these "honorable" people would extend the same courtesy to their fellow man. The only word for how I feel, is disappointed.

You're living proof of what this thread is about: Racism, arogance, and ignorance are apparently running rampant in the Japan you guys are describing, and what's worse is that there seem to be laws that protect, condone, and even encourage this type of behavior.

What's next? Japan Making all foreigners where bands on their arms with their countries' or religions' symbol sewn on to them? What system does this reminesce to?..."Dare I say..Hitler's", Kimpatsu, and his early days of power?? From what you describe life to be for a foreigner in Japan, I would venture to say Hitler might have left a little *residue* on the country of Japan from their previous alliance, if the Japan you guys describe is indeed true.

Kimpatsu, assuming you are Japanese and were taught in Japan in your childhood, why do you know English? Is it perhaps English is a required knowledge to enter a University in Japan? Read this (http://www.atimes.com/japan-econ/DF27Dh01.html) from an Asian News Co. It explains it better than I can.

Look at the US. We tolerate, house and cater for ALL ethnicities and religions. Chinatowns, Little Tokyos, Irish, Russian, Mexican, French, buddhists, musilms, just to mention a few. Obviuosly, there is racism in the US (as in all countries), but it's localized and slowly diminishing and is now ILLEGAL.

Is this really true?? Has Japan indeed become this horrible place for a foreigner to even LIVE in Japan?? Has it become a place where you are denied the rights and freedoms, that even the lowest of people have, because of your skin color or ethnicity??!!! Sad...

Again, the only word I have for this, is disappointing. That a culture, that seems to be in the 22nd Century, has 19th century ideals of Goverment and politics.

So, yes, the US has a culture and a governament that goes by it. One that Japan and just about every country depends on for their economical and career prosperity and overall peace. So instead of insulting the US, I'd suggest saying "Thank you!" instead.

So once again. Is Japan as bad as it is said to be regarding the tolerance and humanity towards foreigners??

In my mind, compassion is an invaluable quality. I truly feel sorry for you.

I still love Japan and its culture despite these rude accusations. I stil practice Kendo, Iaido and Aikido. But again, any of my fellow students in the dojo here in the US would be greatly disappointed at this shocking behavior.

May God bless you all.

[Cantarone]

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: Ummm, how to say it...........Kimpatsu is English

[Jody Holeton]

NO!

Kimpatsu is kimpatsu.
He is his own man.

Dear Mr. Smith,


I am a qualified English teacher who left Japan for greener pastures.
These are sad times in Japan and in the global market place. The "Iron Law of Labor" is in effect and the English teaching community is focusing on Canadians, NZers, and whomever is the cheapest to rent for short periods of exploitation.

The other part of FORCED language and culture instruction is that Japan (and Korea) have a TON of class time! I believe students RESENT all these bad ENglishes classes and grow to resent the culture it represents.

Also, like Hitler found, it is so easy to hate the different isn't it?

[Kimpatsu]

For Joshua, who can't tell a joke when he sees one:
Having said that, America clearly doesn't have a culture.
A cultured person would be able to tell a joke when he saw one.
And besides, America (of which Joshua clearly isn't a part) has an amazing sense of humour.
What other coiuntry would take Dubya seriosuly? :D :rolleyes:

[Gene Williams]

You mis-typed (spelled) "seriously." Actually, most of substantive American culture IS British. I had a college philosophy professor who was British and an Oxford man. He always referred to America with phrases such as, "Now, here in the colonies...," or "...you young Colonial men and women...." Referring to phone cable under the sea, he once said, "The only significant cable under the sea is the umbilicus that connects you young whelps of King George to the motherland."

[Kimpatsu]

Yes, I keep referring to the US as "the Colonies". Most Americans appreciate the humour. Those who don't owe 200 years' back taxes to German George.
Joshua Smith, being a typical Xpian, has no sense of humour. I tell you what, Gene: you can keep him; just give us all the land back, instead. Fair, right?

[Joshua Smith]

Kimpatsu,

I hoped you wouldn't resort to name calling, but that says a lot about you doesn't it?? I don't dislike you Kimpatsu, but your ignorance toward the US and myself is laughable to say the least. English?? Oh God....I keep picturing you as Simon Graham from the Last Samurai :D.

Well, enough of that...change the subject back to the thread's subject, shall we?

So lets say I go to Tokyo for a week as a tourist. I'm of Hispanic roots (but live in the USA). My skin color however is not tan, but it is indeed white. Would you predict me facing any racism in the hotel I stay in, while I'm visiting the sites or going to a restaurant, etc.??

I'd love to go see Aoi Sword Shop and other Nihon-to museums and foundations.

Also, have any of you experienced racism or mistreatment while visiting/living in Japan as bad as you guys ay it is due to your ethnicity?? How about you Kimpatsu?

Thank you all.

Regards,
Joshua Smith

[Jody Holeton]

Dear Mr. Smith,


Go have fun!

I love Tokyo! Japan is what you make of it.

You hear ALOT of griping from those on the lower end of the economic chain.

I'm sure you will have the adventure of a lifetime!

Do go and see the sights!

I am a sword buff too and if you had the time I would recommend Seki (Spyderco and everything).

Take extra cash, Japanese is NOT needed and have a great time and write about it on e-budo.

Wishes he were in Tokyo--Jo

[Joshua Smith]

Originally posted by Jody Holeton
Dear Mr. Smith,


Go have fun!

I love Tokyo! Japan is what you make of it.

You hear ALOT of griping from those on the lower end of the economic chain.

I'm sure you will have the adventure of a lifetime!

Do go and see the sights!

I am a sword buff too and if you had the time I would recommend Seki (Spyderco and everything).

Take extra cash, Japanese is NOT needed and have a great time and write about it on e-budo.

Wishes he were in Tokyo--Jo

Well that's certainly re-assuring. I think you've secured the Airline Co. a sale!

I always knew Japan was a tad rude to foreigners, but what struck me the most was that there are laws that protect this racism crap!

The trip won't be until next Summer, but I'll be looking forward to it every second until then. You never got mistreated or neglected beacuse of you being a foreigner while in Japan, Jody?

Regards,
Joshua Smith

[Soulend]

Is it possible to buy a sense of humor in Japan as well, Jody? I didn't see any for sale on my most recent trip.

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by Soulend
Is it possible to buy a sense of humor in Japan as well, Jody? I didn't see any for sale on my most recent trip.
Sorry, they're a special commodity, and are not sold to unworthy American soldiers... :D

[Soulend]

Good thing I'm neither a soldier nor American. :p

[Jody Holeton]

Dear Soulend,
You can buy anything in Tokyo with enough $$$.
I can loan you my bad sense of humor from time to time BUT I have to have it back for my weekends. I'm being pimped and I need all the charm I can get.


Dear Kimpatsu,

Soulend is a Marine (I would NEVER call a Marine a soldier) and he already has a sense of humor. It's high and tight and in triplicate BUT it's a sense of humor.

Dear Mr. Smith,

I can tell you horror stories from BOTH Japan and Korea.
I hear Thailand is getting really bad too.
The Thais for Thais party wants all foreigners out.

Read "Dogs and Demons" for some good examples.

I say go and make YOUR Japan, just be forewarned.


Train hard--Jo

[Soulend]

It's high and tight and in triplicate BUT it's a sense of humor.

:laugh:

[Joshua Smith]

Thanks Jody. I'll try to expect both the best and worst of Japan when I go there. I'm still not to sure if I want to go. I don't want to spend $3000 on a trip, only to get rude treatment and get shown the door at the Holiday Inn Tokyo!!!

I'll keep doing research and make my decsiion.

Thanks again all of you.

Regards,
Joshua Smith

[Exorcist_Fist]

Ah, despite what the majority of us seem to say, it's not so bad here. As Hyaku mentioned, it just seems that at least once a week something unbelievable happens that only another person who has lived or worked here would understand.

[Joshua Smith]

Originally posted by Silent Dan
Ah, despite what the majority of us seem to say, it's not so bad here. As Hyaku mentioned, it just seems that at least once a week something unbelievable happens that only another person who has lived or worked here would understand.


"Unbelievable" things???....Could you give me some examples??? Once a week? That kind of sounds like a lot.

Ok look. My mom and I were thinking on designing our homes in the Japanese theme. But after hearing this, she has lost a great repect for the Japanese and the country. Is there anything I can say that will convince here it's not as bad and give her back her love for the Japanese???

I'll never have an accurate look at what you mean if I don't acvtualy go to Japan, but indulge me a bit...please.

Reagards,
Joshua Smith

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by Soulend
Good thing I'm neither a soldier nor American. :p
Oops... are Marines not ocunted as soldiers? Pardon my ignorance. (So, "soldier" refers only to the army?)
Go back to Sout' Effrica! :D

[Exorcist_Fist]

Let's see.

Last week I was in the library working on a document for a client. I work at home, and needed to be away from my son to finish it. The "computer room" was full of people, many of whom were not using computers. I asked at the front desk if I could use a plug in another area, and got an affirmative reply.

Two hours later, some old guy walks past me and starts muttering about "stupid foreigners breaking the rules and stealing electricity..." Standard !!!! about the rules btw. In Japan there are thousands of behavioral rules that seem to only apply when someone is feeling pissy.

Long story short, the very guy who told me I could use the plug then kicked me out of the library for using it. All because some old bastard was feeling crotchety.

As for designing your house along a japanese theme, are you building the whole house japanese style, or are you just thinking to put up a print or two, maybe hang a sword or whatever?

[Jody Holeton]

My buddy Joe had part of his basement done in a typical Japanese style room.

$10,000 with REAL tatami and alcove.

I can get him to post pics, it is beautiful.

Dear Silent Dan,


Sorry man, we foreigners just stand out don't we? It is soooo easy to make "examples" of us.

Look at poor Bob Sapp.

[Joshua Smith]

I would love to see that room Jody! If you can get him to post pics, that would be great!

The house I'm trying to design is not Japanese on the outside. Inside, however, will be very Japanese. I love hard-wood floors and how the sun shines off of them. There will be various, Japanese artwork, choji screens, swords of course!, Japanese furniture and tatami here and there. So basically- Outside: America, Inside: Japan.

I have a question regarding those laws that seem to protect the racism. Were these laws SPECIFICALLY made FOR legalizing racism, or did some racist SOB find a loop-hole in the law and made it to where racism is protected under this law???

Thank you.

God bless,
Joshua Smith

[hyaku]

Originally posted by Joshua Smith I have a question regarding those laws that seem to protect the racism. Were these laws SPECIFICALLY made FOR legalizing racism, or did some racist SOB find a loop-hole in the law and made it to where racism is protected under this law???

Thank you.

God bless,
Joshua Smith [/B]


Mr Smith

But this is not good old God Bless America moving around putting the world to rights. It's Japan that "Country that might have, lost the war but bounced back place". That country that has quite a say in the world economy.

I don't see why you keep mentioning racism and the law. I could just see you over here saying things like that in fluent Japanese and watching the Japanese reaction. They would listen...... then go home scratching their heads saying, Why is this outsider telling us what to do?"

The simplest way to describe it is "This is Japan" They do it the way they want to do it and you to put it plain and simple are an "Outsider". The majority of people here just go with the flow like sheep. Nobody here hardy even protests.

I mentioned a situation some time ago in a thread that occured again today.

I have just come home from work. We dont "work" on Saturdays. Have not done for two years. The book I stamped to say I am at work says "Holiday". Why do we go? "This is Japan".

Would I protest? I could but the other staff wont join me. Immediatley I would stand out as, "That foreigner said something". Come to think of it do we ever see people protest here? A few quite orderly rows of grannys with placards is about all we see. They do actually talk about things. But thats all they do. Union meetings have about as much fight as a paper aeroplane.

Do you really think a few foriegners can make any difference to this country. They have not even acknowledged war crimes yet!

You live here you do your thing. get paid well. You sometimes get treated badly and so do the kids.

But to mention one more thing that I would like to take up with you. You said: Look at the US. We tolerate, house and cater for ALL ethnicities and religions. Chinatowns, Little Tokyos, Irish, Russian, Mexican, French, buddhists, musilms, just to mention a few. Obviuosly, there is racism in the US (as in all countries), but it's localized and slowly diminishing and is now ILLEGAL.

Recently a "very" well educated American doctor of philosophy who happens to be Moslem tells me he would be better treated if he was either Jewish or Gay. This rather goes against what you wrote.

[Joshua Smith]

Originally posted by hyaku
Mr Smith

But this is not good old God Bless America moving around putting the world to rights. It's Japan that "Country that might have, lost the war but bounced back place". That country that has quite a say in the world economy.

I don't see why you keep mentioning racism and the law. I could just see you over here saying things like that in fluent Japanese and watching the Japanese reaction. They would listen...... then go home scratching their heads saying, Why is this outsider telling us what to do?"

The simplest way to describe it is "This is Japan" They do it the way they want to do it and you to put it plain and simple are an "Outsider". The majority of people here just go with the flow like sheep. Nobody here hardy even protests.

I mentioned a situation some time ago in a thread that occured again today.

I have just come home from work. We dont "work" on Saturdays. Have not done for two years. The book I stamped to say I am at work says "Holiday". Why do we go? "This is Japan".

Would I protest? I could but the other staff wont join me. Immediatley I would stand out as, "That foreigner said something". Come to think of it do we ever see people protest here? A few quite orderly rows of grannys with placards is about all we see. They do actually talk about things. But thats all they do. Union meetings have about as much fight as a paper aeroplane.

Do you really think a few foriegners can make any difference to this country. They have not even acknowledged war crimes yet!

You live here you do your thing. get paid well. You sometimes get treated badly and so do the kids.

But to mention one more thing that I would like to take up with you. You said: Look at the US. We tolerate, house and cater for ALL ethnicities and religions. Chinatowns, Little Tokyos, Irish, Russian, Mexican, French, buddhists, musilms, just to mention a few. Obviuosly, there is racism in the US (as in all countries), but it's localized and slowly diminishing and is now ILLEGAL.

Recently a "very" well educated American doctor of philosophy who happens to be Moslem tells me he would be better treated if he was either Jewish or Gay. This rather goes against what you wrote.

I don't know what your problem is with my posts.

I keep mentioning racism and the law because apparently, racism in Japan in protected by the law! Acording to Mr. Kuroda, the letter of Japanese law gives the right to refuse service based on race or ethnicity. This is something that is downright unjust and unethical. I'm not telling anyone how to run their lives. I'm telling you my reaction to a law that is archaic and unjust. There's no way you can disagree with me on the fact that these laws are unfair and racist.

Reagrding your quote of me: You apparently didn't read the whole thing. "There is racism in the US (as in ALL countries)....but it's ILLEGAL!!!!" We do not have laws or artciles that protect the racists or laws that condone racism.

Good luck to you and your family in Japan, Hyaku.

God bless,
Joshua Smith

[hyaku]

"This is Japan" the place you love to hate and hate to love. The point is no, we can't change it, only try to grab a sympathetic ear and rant about it on the forum.



Scroll up Scroll up!















Forgive my sarcasm but would you be related to the President?

P.S. I used no bold type or capitals and am not on medication to calm me down :D

[Joshua Smith]

Hyaku,

Woah! Are you sure you understand English pal? You seem to be qute challenged in reading posts. I love Japan! It's culture, its customs, weapons, MAs, etc. I don't know where the heck you got the idea that I hate Japan. Please don't attempt to write false accusations toward me. I assumed you were a better man than that.

I hate racism. Whether it be in Japan, US, Canada, Iraq, England, wherever! If there are indeed laws that condone and legalize racism in Japan, than I hate those laws, not Japan! :rolleyes: I would've thought this to be enormously obvious....

No, actually I'm not related to George Bush. I'm Hispanic, remember? :)

Also, I put capitols and bold on a sentence beacuse you obviously missed it (on accident or puposely?).

It's late...Better hit the sack...

God bless,
Joshua Smith

[Soulend]

For the most part, the Japanese were always very nice to me each time I have been there. About the only manifestation I saw were the restaurants and bars where gaijin were not allowed. And sometimes it seems to depend on the gaijin for whatever reason. For instance, I went into one place and noone said a word, but my buddy behind me got the old crossed forearms treatment. Got a little story from the latest trip though.

Tony (Kimpatsu) and I were eating in a little resturant in Hiroshima when an older Japanese man came in and muttered something to the effect that he 'didn't like lousy foreigners in there' to the waitress. Tony heard this and mentioned it to me. At first I was a bit angry, but after awhile I hit on an idea just to see how he would react, and to subtly let him know that we knew what he said. We called the waitress over and asked her to take a beer to him, and to put it on our bill.

She came back and told us that he said he doesn't drink alcohol - despite the fact that he plainly had a beer in front of him already which he had been drinking!

So, I let a bit of time elapse and bought a beer which I personally carried over to him, and delivered with a bow. He seemed very embarrassed (which I enjoyed immensely) and did not refuse it this time, and later brought some sake over to us and was very friendly.

Most of the time it seems like this. Little snotty remarks, which quickly vanish when you confront the person personally.

Japan is very different, as Hyaku says they are going to do things precisely as they wish. If you go to Japan as a tourist you will probably have a wonderful time and encounter very little of racism. They will be overwhelmingly polite and accomodating, realizing that you will be getting out of their country and going home soon. For an ex-pat who lives and works in Japan it is a different story.

[Soulend]

Originally posted by Joshua Smith
choji screens

You're going to have screens made of cloves? :D

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by Soulend
You're going to have screens made of cloves? :D
It's the only way he can spice up his life. :D

[hyaku]

Originally posted by Joshua Smith
Hyaku,

Woah! Are you sure you understand English pal?

Well lets hope so. Because your spelling is worst than a Japanese high school kid.... read it for yourself....

Also, I put capitols and bold on a sentence beacuse you obviously missed it (on accident or puposely?).
.......

I think you missed the point. My mention of a love, hate situation was directed at those that live here, not those who have never been.

[Joshua Smith]

Originally posted by Soulend
For the most part, the Japanese were always very nice to me each time I have been there. About the only manifestation I saw were the restaurants and bars where gaijin were not allowed. And sometimes it seems to depend on the gaijin for whatever reason. For instance, I went into one place and noone said a word, but my buddy behind me got the old crossed forearms treatment. Got a little story from the latest trip though.

Tony (Kimpatsu) and I were eating in a little resturant in Hiroshima when an older Japanese man came in and muttered something to the effect that he 'didn't like lousy foreigners in there' to the waitress. Tony heard this and mentioned it to me. At first I was a bit angry, but after awhile I hit on an idea just to see how he would react, and to subtly let him know that we knew what he said. We called the waitress over and asked her to take a beer to him, and to put it on our bill.

She came back and told us that he said he doesn't drink alcohol - despite the fact that he plainly had a beer in front of him already which he had been drinking!

So, I let a bit of time elapse and bought a beer which I personally carried over to him, and delivered with a bow. He seemed very embarrassed (which I enjoyed immensely) and did not refuse it this time, and later brought some sake over to us and was very friendly.

Most of the time it seems like this. Little snotty remarks, which quickly vanish when you confront the person personally.

Japan is very different, as Hyaku says they are going to do things precisely as they wish. If you go to Japan as a tourist you will probably have a wonderful time and encounter very little of racism. They will be overwhelmingly polite and accomodating, realizing that you will be getting out of their country and going home soon. For an ex-pat who lives and works in Japan it is a different story.

Thanks Soulend. That's all I wanted to hear.

Hyaku, be careful how you word things! If you address a message to someone saying "The Japan you love to hate and hate to love", what do you think they'll percieve, as I did? I understand your message now. Thank you for clearing that up.

Choji screens. Of course! With some uchiko covered walls, mekugi hammers for art deco., etc.! :D Yeah sorry I meant Shoji Screens!

God bless,
Joshua Smith

[ghp]

Joshua,


[back on tangent]
Your visit to Japan will be great and you will enjoy yourself. All this talk about racism and xenophobia is true -- but you probably won't see any of it (unless you go to some bars). Usually only the long-term "furriners" are the focus of racism/prejudice ... and they are aware since they have some facility with the language.

By the way, don't go in the summer. I just came back from Tokyo and the weather was a killer 100* F for three weeks -- topping out at 104*F. Well, it really was unusual weather, usually in the mid 80s as I recall. Oh, and carry an umbrella between July and August. Err, unless you go to Hokkaido where the weather is wonderfully cooler and dryer than the other islands. You will be treated kindly and will be amazed at how well you can get around as a tourist. Although many Japanese study English in school and go to cram school, they are often reluctant to speak English (ergo the need for the Pink Bunny). However, you'll find that many can understand written English much better. Remember to speak clearly (and write clearly). Things will be fine.

Regards,
Guy

[ghp]

Dear Moderator,

I do not *really* mind having my much longer post edited. HOWEVER!!! I would appreciate an editorial note inserted stating something to the effect [Edited by Moderator].

Regards,
Guy

[George Kohler]

Guy,

Sorry, I did edit the thread, but I copied all of the posts that were edited and moved them to the appropriate forum. We have a new forum for sex, politics, and religion. See this post http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=26653

[hyaku]

Great lets talk about Budo. Mr Smith I am sure everyone here would be interested to here your opinions on that.

[Joshua Smith]

Originally posted by hyaku
Great lets talk about Budo. Mr Smith I am sure everyone here would be interested to here your opinions on that.

We'll talk about Budo in the appropriate Forum/thread. You've all completely distorted poor Silent Dan's thread into talk on religion and who knows what else due to ignorance and paranoia.

Frankly Hyaku, cut the crap. I don't want to get into an online argument with an avatar. If you don't have anything to say regarding Dan's thread, don't post it. I don't know why you're on some *online vendetta* against me and my religion, but it's time to stop and get on with your life, pal. Take care.

God bless,
Joshua Smith

[Kimpatsu]

Given that this is e-budo, every forum is appropriate for the discussion of budo, wouldn't you think? Duh! :rolleyes:

[hyaku]

Originally posted by Joshua Smith
We'll talk about Budo in the appropriate Forum/thread. You've all completely distorted poor Silent Dan's thread into talk on religion and who knows what else due to ignorance and paranoia.

Frankly Hyaku, cut the crap. I don't want to get into an online argument with an avatar. If you don't have anything to say regarding Dan's thread, don't post it. I don't know why you're on some *online vendetta* against me and my religion, but it's time to stop and get on with your life, pal. Take care.

God bless,
Joshua Smith

Well I had lots to say until you stuck your uninformed nose in. Anyway thanks for the excellent online warning.

Nomaku sanmanda bobonan onma rishie sowaka.

[Joshua Smith]

Originally posted by Kimpatsu
Given that this is e-budo, every forum is appropriate for the discussion of budo, wouldn't you think? Duh! :rolleyes:

What's the title of the thread Kimpatsu? What does Budo have to do with this thread? Duh!!:rolleyes: It's like I'm talking to teenagers going through their *phase*...

Nomaku sanmanda bobonan onma rishie sowaka.

Don't have the guts or the class to tell me what you're thinking Hyaku? Hmmm...I guess I really I am talking to children.

God bless,
Joshua Smith

[Joseph Svinth]

I think it's time for this thread to be closed. Discussions of religion and politics have their own forum, and you're invited to resume the name-calling over there.