Shinai differences?!

[Gattsu]

I was wondering if there is any official division between the different types of shinai (and I'm not thinking about the difference in size :D ). I have noticed different names are given by different manaufactuers...
thanx

[gendzwil]

The two broad types are chokuto and dobari. Chokuto are of a more uniform thickness, with the weight distributed evenly along the length. They tend to be heavier overall. Dobari have a pronounced flare just in front of the handle, which moves the balance point back and makes them feel light in the tip compared to a chokuto. Competitive kendoka usually prefer the dobari style for it's quick tip action. For this reason they are usually quite light, barely making competition weight. Older sensei often like chokuto, as they handle closer to a real sword. Some people who have a conservative, step-in-and-hit-men type style like chokuto. If you like lots of suriagi-waza, harai-waza, debana-waza, then you probably prefer dobari.

Most beginner's shinai are in the middle between the two. A beginner wouldn't notice a lot of difference between his shinai and a good dobari one, but he may well feel that a true chokuto shinai is relatively tip-heavy.

[Andy Watson]

An interesting AND informative posting. How pleasant but how rare.:)

[Gattsu]

Thanx for the info...it clears the situation a little...so basically we have Chokuto and Dobari and that's it?! The rest is only details, right?
thanx again

[gendzwil]

Other details include bamboo types which I don't know a lot about - they often advertise "madake" which is a particularily good quality bamboo from a particular region of Japan. Then you will of course see the brand name, the model name, the maker's name in the case of hand-made shinai.

They vary a lot, even among shinai of the same make and model, because it's a natural material. Always kind of a crapshoot getting them by mail, if I lived in Japan I'd just go to my local shop and pick the ones I like out of the bin.

[KillerB]

On my recent vacation(lunar new year), I took my wife and baby sightseeing in Tokyo.

While my wife was off buying stuff for her hobby(traditional embroidery), I went to visit Mori Budo-gu near Nihonbashi.

I had a nice chat with the owner/manager, looked at some really gorgeous bogu pieces and bought a couple of some small items.

What I noticed, and thought was really nice, was the number of people, from adults in their 30's to white-haired seniors, who just dropped in to pick up kendo stuff on their way off from work. Kote they wanted repaired, men they had repaired, etc. Several of them stood around the shinai bin, trying the various shinais in their hands. All kinds of models, makers and bamboo types. When they had picked out the shinais they wanted, an employee would string them up with tsukagawa and stuff.

I got a really warm feeling that kendo was such a casually close part of the everyday life of so many people. Also that I could indeed do kendo for a long time, as long as I wanted, regardless of age.

Just what I saw and felt.



Kee-Sang Hong
aka Keith hong

[Brian Owens]

Originally posted by gendzwil
Other details include bamboo types...They vary a lot, even among shinai of the same make and model, because it's a natural material.
Hi Neil,

Have you had any experience with the carbon (or is it graphite?) shinai and, if so, what do you think of them?

[ulvulv]

Most people think the carbonshinai feels too "dead", heavy and clumsy. I have had one for eight years, and use it for practise now and then, but it cannot compete with the handling of even a mediocre bamboo shinai. In my opinion. Very few, if any, use the carbonshinai for shiai. If you are to lazy to take care of a bambooshinai, or dont care about winning or loosing a fight, then carbon is the right thing for you.
On a sidenote: many bicyclists critizise carbon-bicycleframes for just the same, the material feels dead and boring, and a more springy and "juicy" feeling is needed to get some life into your actions.

[gendzwil]

If you are a beginner, you might break a carbon shinai due to bad technique but after the first year you might consider getting one just due to the ease of maintenance. They can last a long time (I had one for 10 years before replacing a stave). But as Roar pointed out, most people don't really like them too much. Hasegawa has never quite gotten them to feel quite right - they always feel a little too spongy to me. Also they're completely uniform, so it's not like bamboo where you can pick one you like or sand one down to your preferences. They're OK for novices (2 dan and lower, say) but most intermediate and above players prefer bamboo. You'll often see people use carbon for basics or working with beginners, then switch to bamboo for jigeiko with more advanced people.

[DCPan]

Originally posted by gendzwil
Also they're completely uniform, so it's not like bamboo where you can pick one you like or sand one down to your preferences..

Hmm...maybe it's just our imagination, but the balance of the carbon shinai at our dojo varies, and some of them are the same model. Maybe quality control isn't where it needs to be. I have two DB-39M, and they feel different.

One of my dojomates actually returned from Japan one Christmas with a DB-39M that felt really balanced....He said he picked through a batch....Maybe other people's shinai are greener, but his DB-39M seemed better balanced than mine.

When you buy replacement staves, Hasegawa also asks for the part number...wondering if they are trying to match with staves from the same batch.

I did "hear" that someone from So. Cal. actually used a hot iron to mold his carbon...don't know how true that is though....

[spliffmaniac]

My teacher recently bought 3 'Bio Shinais' from Chiba bogu. These are bamboo shinai infused with a plastic resin to make them last longer.

I had a play around with one, and it felt extremely well balanced. My sensei has also said that they have lasted very well (he practices 5 times a week).

This might be worth checking out as they seem to offer the advantages of both bamboo and carbon.

[Gattsu]

Originally posted by KillerB
What I noticed, and thought was really nice, was the number of people, from adults in their 30's to white-haired seniors, who just dropped in to pick up kendo stuff on their way off from work. Kote they wanted repaired, men they had repaired, etc. Several of them stood around the shinai bin, trying the various shinais in their hands. All kinds of models, makers and bamboo types. When they had picked out the shinais they wanted, an employee would string them up with tsukagawa and stuff.

I got a really warm feeling that kendo was such a casually close part of the everyday life of so many people. Also that I could indeed do kendo for a long time, as long as I wanted, regardless of age.



...lucky guy! I can only wish to be able to enjoy kendo as an "everyday common activity"..especially the part about being able to go to my local budo store and "try" various shinai untill I find one that suits me...:(
btw did you by any chance see any non-japanese people doing the same?

[ulvulv]

Originally posted by spliffmaniac
My teacher recently bought 3 'Bio Shinais' from Chiba bogu. These are bamboo shinai infused with a plastic resin to make them last longer.

I had a play around with one, and it felt extremely well balanced. My sensei has also said that they have lasted very well (he practices 5 times a week).

This might be worth checking out as they seem to offer the advantages of both bamboo and carbon.

Thanks, you saved me from further detective work. I remember seeing those bio shinai, but I did not remember which store who sold them, and spent much time searching the net, in vain. There they are!:

http://www.chibabogu.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=154

[hyaku]

Originally posted by Gattsu
...lucky guy! I can only wish to be able to enjoy kendo as an "everyday common activity"..especially the part about being able to go to my local budo store and "try" various shinai untill I find one that suits me...:(
btw did you by any chance see any non-japanese people doing the same?

I am sure you would enjoy standing there everyday letting fifty fit teens smack you over the head. Forget weekends off, forget holidays don't expect to get home before ten in the evening, forget the home life. That is unless your boys come to your place for an education and also hit you over the head.

Expect to go to the doctor a lot with compacted vertibrea and other complaints. Expect to wear one if not two hearing aids as you get older.

Don't want to dampen anybodys dreams but there is another side to it.

My Bogu shop is on the corner of my road. They deliver a full rack of shinai to my office and I can spend all day choosing.

[Gattsu]

Originally posted by hyaku


Don't want to dampen anybodys dreams but there is another side to it.

My Bogu shop is on the corner of my road. They deliver a full rack of shinai to my office and I can spend all day choosing.

...oh don't get me wrong. I am aware of the "dark" side of the whole "living in Japan" thing (and perhaps the side-effects of fifty teens hitting you over the head :p ) but I was thinking more about the casual "everyday" approach to martial arts (or more precisely kendo)...something that is quite hard to achieve in Europe...

[Gattsu]

Originally posted by hyaku


My Bogu shop is on the corner of my road. They deliver a full rack of shinai to my office and I can spend all day choosing.


...and I'm not even going to comment this one...:( ...:D