bad kendoka !?

[Samurai Fe-taru]

Hello everyone,
I like to keep to myself most of the time and just read the posts and learn but I feel the need to share something with all of you and maybe get some feed back. I have been in kendo for over a year now and I really try to do the best I can as far as form and proper waza while in keiko (sorry for the spelling) but there are two kendoka in my dojo that I refuse to go against. I'm not afraid of them or anything like that but they seam to have no concept of proper cuts they just slam like new-b's. It is completely useless to try and go against them. I will try to explane in the fewest words possible how they "attack", you know when you have a small dog and it thinks it can bit the heels off of everything it comes up against ? Well, one of the guys is just like this, he just keeps bending into the attacks no good form too much power and nothing that resembles respectful attitude for other students, it's like going against a baseball player. The worst part is that we had a get together with the sempai, at his house and I found out that they were trying to make me look like some kind of drug addict, I guess they feel threatened or something because I won't practice with them. I can practice with someone who slams people and obviously doesn't make ippon on anything, it's pathetic. They never come to practice and when they do no one likes it, and no one wants to go against them due to their sloppy and unreasonable approach to the art but when we have no other bogu in our line and only new-b's we have to subject our self to this abuse, not only being slammed but having our waza stripped from us due to there un-kendo like actions. You could easly say that they are swinging baseball bats at people. The reason why I'm comeing out and putting this before all of you is because they are pissing people off that watch what they do and pretty soon, from what I hear, one of the students, not in bogu plans on hurting the main character pretty bad so he can no longer do kendo. I mean even my wife would like to mace them after practice is over, it's like they think they have something to prove like "eh I'm a big strong man watch me hit you hard and look like a UFC battle. I used to practice and be friends with these guys but not any longer, mainly because of there constant disrespect for sempai suggestions and the fact that they don't listen to reason of tradition. They think they can do anything they want and get away with it, and they do. I just don't want to see this other persons plans go through to spill guts in the dojo parking lot I don't wish this on anyone I know, but maybe it should happen. Have any of you had this kind of problem and if so how was it delt with ?
Thank you all,
Jason

[Charles Mahan]

This is a situation you should really be discussing with your sensei rather than on an open forum.

[Samurai Fe-taru]

This is a situation you should really be discussing with your sensei rather than on an open forum.


I really don't know how to. It's not that easy to talk to him.

[hyaku]

What can I say? It happens even here in Japan. I used to have a guy who hit the floor when he missed my kote. Made a hell of a mess of my elbow.

I didn't get much satisfaction out of Sensei either. He did laugh and say my chudan was too weak. Sure enough I wedged in at he could get near me apart from trying to go round. A shinai in the throat or off to the side discourages the best of them.

Another person in the dojo who is into stand on the spot pile driving had a lot stop coming. I have a rather strong tsuki or men tai-atari that can launch the best of them like a space shuttle. He left the dojo through the door (still closed). Makes you feel bad afterwards but sometimes you just have to resoert to other means.

It really is up to your teacher to show sort these idiots out. Either that or bit of dirty tactics yourself.

Best of luck!

[Samurai Fe-taru]

What can I say? It happens even here in Japan. I used to have a guy who hit the floor when he missed my kote. Made a hell of a mess of my elbow.

I didn't get much satisfaction out of Sensei either. He did laugh and say my chudan was too weak. Sure enough I wedged in at he could get near me apart from trying to go round. A shinai in the throat or off to the side discourages the best of them.

Another person in the dojo who is into stand on the spot pile driving had a lot stop coming. I have a rather strong tsuki or men tai-atari that can launch the best of them like a space shuttle. He left the dojo through the door (still closed). Makes you feel bad afterwards but sometimes you just have to resoert to other means.

It really is up to your teacher to show sort these idiots out. Either that or bit of dirty tactics yourself.

Best of luck!

yeah that make sense, I just don't want this to ruin my kendo. I love this art with all of my energy and my wife is very supportive as well, it gets to be as she puts it "pathetic, and they look like over grows girls on PMS"...lol, I love how she puts it. Thank you for not judging me and giving me wonderful info to help in this situation.

[MikeWilliams]

The reason why I'm comeing out and putting this before all of you is because they are pissing people off that watch what they do and pretty soon, from what I hear, one of the students, not in bogu plans on hurting the main character pretty bad so he can no longer do kendo.

I'm not a kendoka, but people like them exist in all MAs. I'm highlighting the above, because it sounds like you have a potentially very bad situation brewing in your dojo. This is the kind of petty vindictiveness that can destroy clubs. No-one will train where there is a bad atmosphere, or where people get hurt.

Your sensei needs to nip this in the bud very quickly. You need to talk to him.

On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with a bit of rough and tumble in sparring, provided both parties know the rules in advance. Or do as Hyaku suggested, and dirty up your kendo for certain occasions.

[Samurai Fe-taru]

I'm not a kendoka, but people like them exist in all MAs. I'm highlighting the above, because it sounds like you have a potentially very bad situation brewing in your dojo. This is the kind of petty vindictiveness that can destroy clubs. No-one will train where there is a bad atmosphere, or where people get hurt.

Your sensei needs to nip this in the bud very quickly. You need to talk to him.

On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with a bit of rough and tumble in sparring, provided both parties know the rules in advance. Or do as Hyaku suggested, and dirty up your kendo for certain occasions.


Yeah, I think I should call and talk to my sempai I don't want us to lose more students and I don't like seeing our students getting hurt. Thank you very much for your information and opinion I really respect your words and concern, I just don't want my sempai to think I'm being disrespectful.

[gendzwil]

Talk to your sensei. Meanwhile, buy some extra pads and put them on before you play those guys. No sense in getting hurt.

[Samurai Fe-taru]

Talk to your sensei. Meanwhile, buy some extra pads and put them on before you play those guys. No sense in getting hurt.



yeah like wrapping myself in pillows :p . thank you neil for your input I replyed in kendo-world also just wanted to thank you again. You guys are great !

[Lane Haygood]

If their technique is bad, I'd go with what Hyakutake-sensei said. Go for illegal targets, and use your superior knowledge of technique to overcome raw power. I know basically beans about kendo, but I can swing a shinai around. I have no illusions, however, that against a sufficiently trained person, it doesn't matter how hard I can swing or how good my taisabaki is... I'd get my !!! handed to me because technique can overcome power and strength. Put them in their place, and they'll either learn or injure themselves if they keep it up.

[hyaku]

I just re-read my post. OMG Does it throw in spelling errors when you post? I'm sure my English isn't that bad.

I have heard this problem described as the peacock syndrome. I should add by saying that my sensei was a student of Oasa Yuji (Judan). In his days Kendo was far more "old style". Perhaps this is why he lets so much go.

Keep your cool on this one and bide your time Fe taru. The bully types are quite predictable.

[Charlie Kondek]

A question:

Do they do this stuff because they are experienced, and prefer this kind of nasty, possibly shiai-style kendo? Or because they are inexperienced and just acting like macho buttholes?

If the former, fight them anyway so that you can learn how to fight them, because they are by no means rare. Learn to overcome them with good, clean kendo. Don't let the fact that they are doing sloppy kendo make you angry or lose your composure, learn to maintain concentration despite their way of fighting.

If the latter, same advice - consistently ippon them with good, clean kendo. Learn how to thwart their movements as a way of teaching them through consistently giving them ippon.

As for their odious personalities - maybe, in time, you will come to understand them and vice versa. Maybe not.

[Charlie Kondek]

BTW, I don't think there's any problem discussing this on a forum. If you can resolve it without bothering sensei, then great.

[Ronin055]

I agree with the above, you should learn to defeat these individuals. Your kendo should become superior as this is nothing more than a standard training barrier. Imagine in "the old days" if a samurai were to meet up with another who was brutal and uncivilized. Well Im sure you couldnt just walk away back then. So what then? How do you handle it? I think this is a colossal learing opportunity. You are uncomfortable and your opponnets are brutish. Fantastic, here are several things for you to learn from.

A very wise man told me once, that your enemies are actually your best friends. After all, who pushes you to improve the most without compromise? There for who in reality makes you a better person?

If you decide to speak with your sensei about these things, I would advise you to approach it differently than you have here. I would suggest that you ask how to improve yourself from certain situations. IE if Im attacked in such and such a fashion, how should I proceed? IF my opponnent does XYZ out of norm, what should I do? etc I think you get the idea. Then you will look to be a person attempting to triumph and improve not complain.

Success, isnt that what being a swordsman is all about.

[Samurai Fe-taru]

A question:

Do they do this stuff because they are experienced, and prefer this kind of nasty, possibly shiai-style kendo? Or because they are inexperienced and just acting like macho buttholes?

If the former, fight them anyway so that you can learn how to fight them, because they are by no means rare. Learn to overcome them with good, clean kendo. Don't let the fact that they are doing sloppy kendo make you angry or lose your composure, learn to maintain concentration despite their way of fighting.

If the latter, same advice - consistently ippon them with good, clean kendo. Learn how to thwart their movements as a way of teaching them through consistently giving them ippon.

As for their odious personalities - maybe, in time, you will come to understand them and vice versa. Maybe not.



Macho Buttholes is correct their technique is awful. I do not claim to be any kind of expert but these guys look like they are doing unltimate fighting with shinai. I put this on www.kendo-world.com also with the same thread name one of my dojo mats also put in his two cents you should check it out and you will see the extent of the mentality of this main character. Read the post done by kendoistheword

[Samurai Fe-taru]

I agree with the above, you should learn to defeat these individuals. Your kendo should become superior as this is nothing more than a standard training barrier. Imagine in "the old days" if a samurai were to meet up with another who was brutal and uncivilized. Well Im sure you couldnt just walk away back then. So what then? How do you handle it? I think this is a colossal learing opportunity. You are uncomfortable and your opponnets are brutish. Fantastic, here are several things for you to learn from.

A very wise man told me once, that your enemies are actually your best friends. After all, who pushes you to improve the most without compromise? There for who in reality makes you a better person?

If you decide to speak with your sensei about these things, I would advise you to approach it differently than you have here. I would suggest that you ask how to improve yourself from certain situations. IE if Im attacked in such and such a fashion, how should I proceed? IF my opponnent does XYZ out of norm, what should I do? etc I think you get the idea. Then you will look to be a person attempting to triumph and improve not complain.

Success, isnt that what being a swordsman is all about.


oh believe me I have though about useing this in a constructive manor but they are dangerous alot of the main facts are stated at kendo-world.com I think you would be really interested in reading that thread.

[SeventhSentinel]

next time you face them use a bokken... simple..... effective...... priceless

[Charlie Kondek]

Well, if we're going to be that way about it. :D

1) Accept or block a men cut. Flow into taiatari and tsubazariai.

2) Remove left hand from shinai, grab opponent by the right elbow.

3) Lift forcefully.

4) You have a couple of options from here. Jam shinai up under the men, past the tsuki, for a nice hickey. Jam kensen into space below doh but above tare. Tip kensen UNDER tare, if you know what I mean.

Anybody else? Let's hear 'em. :smash:

[Mekugi]

Jason,

Use them for your training and become better. Some people won't follow the rules and play nice in life, so there is no reason to think that they will in games. It's a great opportuity to learn what to do in those situations. I would try to pair off with them as much as possible just to see their weaknesses and overcome them.

[Ronin055]

I looked over on Kendo World, and I couldnt find the thread you were talking about.

Ill look again later unless you have a link that you could share.

I hope its going better for you in any event.

[Hishaam Bendiar]

I looked over on Kendo World, and I couldnt find the thread you were talking about.

Ill look again later unless you have a link that you could share.

I hope its going better for you in any event.

Here is the link (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7495) to that thread.