Mon placement on Monstuki?

[sunny]

Greetings All,
I have searched on the net but cannot find a diagram of the placement of the 5 mon on a monstuki. In particular I am wondering of the placement on the sleeves. Can anyone please point me in the right direction?
This is the type of frivolous question that I don't like to bother Sensei with.
Sorry to post such a boring question.
Best regards,

[fifthchamber]

Have a look at the pictures on www.koryu.com there may well be several examples there you can see there..Or try a search for Montsuki pictures on Google..I am sure that should do you okay..
Regards.

[fifthchamber]

Like this..
http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=Montsuki&hl=en

[hyaku]

Don't know if it would depend on the size of garment but heres mine.

Measured in cms to center of the crest......

Back center 10 cms down from collar. Sleeves. Center of sleeve length. Holding up sleeve by top crease they 10 cms down from the top on back side. Chest (front panels) again holding up by the top looking at the front they are central in each panel and 18 cms down from top.

Look at the pictures fifthchamber pointed you to and that should help.

http://courio-city.com/msgr-holic/ecommerce/catalog/images/montsuki.jpg

Bye the way as you can see its "Montsuki"

[sunny]

Thank you both very much for your replies.
Why do I always forget Google images search?
Those pictures and Colin's discription answer my question succinctly.
(I'm glad I didn't put the sleeve mons where I thought they went... :) )
Thank you again.
best regards,

[Brian Owens]

...(I'm glad I didn't put the sleeve mons where I thought they went... :) )...
On the upper arm, like an American police uniform?

Mid-sleeve, but centered on the crease?

Inquiring minds want to know. ;)

[pgsmith]

Hey Sunny,
Here are the exact measurements you are looking for, courtesy of Bob Elder's East Coast Martial Arts Supplies ...
http://www.ecmas.com/montsukiinfo.htm

Cheers,

[Brian Owens]

...Here are the exact measurements you are looking for...
The measurements are correct, but the illustrations aren't.

They show the chest mon being 18cm from top edge to shoulder crease (correct), and the sleeve mon being 8cm from top edge to sleeve crease (correct), but then draw those mon as being in line with each other (incorrect).

If the haori or kimono is hung on a rod or laid out flat, the chest mon will be lower (by 10cm, obviously) than the sleeve mon.

Also, the top illustration just says "Haori Jacket Mon Placement." I'd like to mention that the use of 5 mon on the haori is traditionally for "ceremonial" wear, whereas for "formal" wear a single mon on the back is proper. I realize that the page is devoted to the kuro montsuki, a ceremonial outfit, but wanted to mention this as an additional point for those interested in Japanese clothing.

[sunny]

Thank you all for the further replies.
At first I thought the sleeve mons went on the side over the top crease, just up from the cuff, but on further thought I realised that everytime you folded up your montsuki you would be folding the mon. I was sure the japanese would not have it like that. So I am glad I asked.
Thank you.
Best regards,
sunny.
(now I know where to put my hereldic coat of arms....JUST KIDDING... :p )

[Brian Owens]

...(now I know where to put my hereldic coat of arms...
Hey, great idea! I'll put the full achievement-of-arms centered on the back, and the smaller coats-of-arms on the chest panels and sleeves.

[Brian Owens]

And yes, I'm kidding too. ;)

[Chidokan]

I dont see why you couldn't use the small family badge as a mon if you have one, rather than the full coat of arms....

a quote from http://clanhamilton.acomhosting.com/symbols.htm you may find interesting...

Coat of Arms
A chiefs coat of arms fulfills within the clan or family the same purpose as the Royal Arms do in a Kingdom. There is no such thing as a family coat of arms which anyone can assume, or a whole family can use.The crest in our badge is a subsidiary part of the Duke of Hamilton's coat of arms. The Duke's coat of arms is heritage property owned by him through lineage from the original granter or confirmee and thus descending like a Peerage.

[Brian Owens]

I dont see why you couldn't use the small family badge as a mon if you have one, rather than the full coat of arms....
Funny you should mention that.

Look at the crest in my achievement of arms posted above. Note the badge held in the lion's paws, and compare it with the mon that I use as my avatar.

Of course your example is Scots heraldry, which is a whole other kettle of hagus than English/Welsh/German/Spanish/etc. heraldry, but the idea is sound.

[Leo Chang]

I mean no disrespect to anyone's family heraldry symbol... but I don't really know any delicate way to ask this....

Why is the lion on the smaller family badge sticking its tongue out? :p

Is there a certain symbolism associated with a lion's tongue? (I ask this in all seriousness)


Thanks,


- Leo.

[Brian Owens]

I mean no disrespect to anyone's family heraldry symbol... but I don't really know any delicate way to ask this....

Why is the lion on the smaller family badge sticking its tongue out? :p

Is there a certain symbolism associated with a lion's tongue? (I ask this in all seriousness)
I know of symbolism attached to the lion's posture; walking, leaping, sitting, etc. (passant, rampant, sejeant, etc.); and to the direction he's looking; facing the viewer, looking over his shoulder, etc. (guardant, regardant, etc.); but I'm not aware of any symbolism to the tongue. I don't think I've ever seen a lion that wasn't sticking it out (see the blue tongue on the red lion of my crest (the top charge of the big achievement of arms).

I suspect it just done to give another place for a distinguishing characteristic.

For example, the lion on my arms is "argent rampant guardant langued gules" -- a leaping silver lion with a red tongue. Someone else could have a lion argent rampant guardant langued azure (blue) or a lion argent rampant guardant langued vert (green), and even though the "main charge" is a leaping silver lion they would still have different arms than I.

I chose gules, argent, and azure (red, white/silver, and blue) for my arms to represent the colors of the American Flag, and futher used two shades of blue -- the standard azure (dark blue, AKA flag blue) and the rarely seen blue-celeste (sky blue) -- to further distinguish my arms (to avoid possible conflicts) and to allude to my service in the Air Force (also symbolized by the white stars with red centers, a reference to the old Army Air Corps Roundel).

It's mandatory to have unique arms, because -- contrary to common belief in countries that don't observe laws of arms -- there's no such thing as a "family crest," and coats of arms don't rightfully belong to everyone with the same surname, but only the person to whom granted and, sometimes, his or her direct -- usually male -- descendants (called the armigerous family).

But I'm really getting into major thread drift here. You can find more information on heraldic devices at the Web site of the International Associating of Amateur Heralds here:

IAAH (www.amateurheralds.org)

HTH.