Toyama-ryu Happon-me Bunkai

[A.J. Bryant]

Hi all,

Does anyone know the bunkai of Toyama-ryu's ( & Nakamura-ryu's) Happon-me? Is it similar to the MJER/MSR versions (Batto/Nukiuchi)? Seems too slow and measured for that. Thanks!

[Jock Armstrong]

Happonme/hachiponme is basically for test cutting wara, set horizontally. It has been suggested that it also approximates the execution of a kneeling victim but no-one in the dojo I was at ever referred to it as such. Since the wara or goza are unlikely to move, the swordsman can use a much bigger swing at the target [ hence the chamber behind the back rather than the usual above the head at 30 degrees]. The draw is done to the side so as not to disturb the target or hit the upright posts which hold the wara in place. It is the only kata in Nakamura-ha Toyama ryu which utilises the vertical downward cut [suichoku giri]. All other kata use a kesa giri as the "finisher".

I hope this helps.

[Tom Smyth]

OUr teacher uses the story of executing a person who has delivered a message as the root explanantionfor Happon-mei. This has become the primary technique used for Dotan tameshigiri, but ibelieve the kata and technique have beenaround a little longer than the times where tatami or rice straw became the target of choice.

Our branch of Toyama utilizes a straight down "finishing cut" on Rappon-Mei as well. THis very well could be a variation from other styles, but this past year at the orlando tai kai, Mitsuo Hataya Sensei demonstrated the " old" original versions of the TOyama ryu kata as he was originally taught. THese versions also included Gedan giri to finish #6 and #8 katas aswell.

Just a perspective from my side of the world.

Tom Smyth

[R A Sosnowski]

Hi all,

Does anyone know the bunkai of Toyama-ryu's ( & Nakamura-ryu's) Happon-me? Is it similar to the MJER/MSR versions (Batto/Nukiuchi)? Seems too slow and measured for that. Thanks!
I have heard the same reasons as Tom Smyth.

There is a subtle change in the execution. There is no seme in Toyama/Nakamura-ryu Happon-me because there is not need (no threat); this is analogous to Kaishaku/Junto in the Omori Ryu (MJER/MSR Shoden Waza).

There is, of course, that family of kata in MJER/MSR where there is a threat, hence seme is required: Nukiuchi/Batto in Omori Ryu, Makko/Nukiuchi in Eishin Ryu (Chuden Waza), and Itomagoi in Okuden.

[A.J. Bryant]

Guys,

That was perfect! I suspected it was more for dotan than anything else. Hakudo sensei did a lot of this type of tameshigiri. Thank you very much for all your insights!

Sincerely,

[Karasu Maru]

http://www.n-p-s.net/image/iaidou/kiso88.wmv

http://www.n-p-s.net/image/iaidou/kiso08.wmv

[R A Sosnowski]

http://www.n-p-s.net/image/iaidou/kiso88.wmv

http://www.n-p-s.net/image/iaidou/kiso08.wmv

What line of Toyama Ryu is this from?

It is not 8-honme (Itto Ryodan) in the Nakamura line nor the ZNBDR.

[Jock Armstrong]

Nice clips Mai but they aren't Toyama ryu happonme [at least as far as the IBF teaches it] or Nakamura ryu happonme, which is the same kata as Toyama ryu nanaponme. Who was in it and what system do they practice?

[Karasu Maru]

I do not have much knowledge about Toyama-Ryu.
The following site shows movies of eight katas of Toyama-Ryu.
http://www.n-p-s.net/toyamaryu-iai.htm

There is the following explanation in this site about Toyama-Ryu.
“Katas of Toyama-Ryu were established in Japan Army Toyama School in 1873.
A demonstration played here is a line of Morinaga Kiyoshi sensei, which taught Toyama-Ryu in the fencing department of Japan Army Toyama School. Demonstrator, Hasegawa Takashi is a pupil of Morinaga sensei.”

If this is wrong, sorry please disregard my post.

Regards,

[R A Sosnowski]

I do not have much knowledge about Toyama-Ryu.
The following site shows movies of eight katas of Toyama-Ryu.
http://www.n-p-s.net/toyamaryu-iai.htm

There is the following explanation in this site about Toyama-Ryu.
“Katas of Toyama-Ryu were established in Japan Army Toyama School in 1873.
A demonstration played here is a line of Morinaga Kiyoshi sensei, which taught Toyama-Ryu in the fencing department of Japan Army Toyama School. Demonstrator, Hasegawa Takashi is a pupil of Morinaga sensei.”

If this is wrong, sorry please disregard my post.

Ah, that explains it. I recall seeing in "TOYAMA RYU BATTO JUTSU" by Tasaburo Tokutomi sensei, who was taught by Morinaga Kiyoshi sensei, that hachihonme was a different kata than practiced by the IBF.

[Karasu Maru]

Sorry for my misunderstand.

By the way, he completely has nothing to do with Toyama-Ryu, but I introduce him, a crazy world record holder, and his movies.

http://www2.odn.ne.jp/ryuseiken/choice05/01/01.htm

http://www2.odn.ne.jp/ryuseiken/choice06/01.htm

Regards,

[Walker]

Yeeeee haaaaa! Dueling World Records. There can only be one! Let's put them face to face! That'll be one less!

http://www.ishiyamaryu.com/worldrecord.html

[Tom Smyth]

the recent links to Saruta and his "cutting" record is a place i dont think this thread wants to go to.

There is to much " stuff" and not much of it is good.

Records are for phonographs.

Tom Smyth
Socially unacceptable
Politically incorrect
Lovin every minute

[Chidokan]

I met him in Kyoto doing a demo, he came across as quite a nice guy. Short meeting though. Should be on a different thread...

[Karasu Maru]

I went off the subject.

There have some movies and photos of Toyama-Ryu 8 honme in the web.
Sorry, but I cannot tell which movie is happonme which you are looking for.
The following movie seems to be happonme, and it is different from Morinaga sensei style.

http://boat-board.oc.to/s-chanbara/movie/toyama-8.wmv

Regards,

[Jock Armstrong]

That is the one Mai- thank you!

[Karasu Maru]

This would be happonme.

http://www9.ocn.ne.jp/~kihunkan/tik8.htm

[R A Sosnowski]

I went off the subject.

There have some movies and photos of Toyama-Ryu 8 honme in the web.
Sorry, but I cannot tell which movie is happonme which you are looking for.
The following movie seems to be happonme, and it is different from Morinaga sensei style.

http://boat-board.oc.to/s-chanbara/movie/toyama-8.wmv

An unusual variation. Nuketsuke here is done as if it were a cut.

We typically do a slow draw through Uke-nagashi into Jodan before the final Kiri-otoshi. What's the hurry? There's no Teki (enemy) here.