Re Tenshinsho-Den Katori Shinto Ryu

[lowblow]

Hello,
Do any of you have a contact for any teacher of this ryu in the UK, I have emailed the American contact a couple of times but not heard anything back, (but then emails dont always arive) if anyone can help I would be most greatfull,

Kind Regards James

[Andy Watson]

James

The official teacher in this country is Michael Jay who operates in the West London area.

I would advise caution to you here though. People dibble and dabble in TSKSR because they are attracted by it's clear tradition and continuity of teaching along with its diversity of technique. The effect of this is that the world is populated who consider themselves exponents of the art having done a few seminars and watched videos.

The true lineage of the style is passed down through Otake Risuke sensei and requires his permission to be included in the tradition. If you don't have that then you are not learning from a licenced teacher of the style and you are just dabbling - end of story. I know that comment will upset Sugino sensei's lineage of students but that true soke-deshi lineage is what defines the style.

Proper TSKSR practise requires dedicated practise and a most serious approach (you do have to perform keppan to be accepted and in Japan to boot).

I realise that I could be describing lots of styles with what I have said above but I don't think any style has attracted the number of dabblers as TSKSR has.

If you are only asking about this style out of interest and a wish to learn a bit about it then fair enough.

If you are looking to train in it though the question I would advise you ask yourself is this - are you going to break away from your current teacher to dedicate yourself to this style or are you going to be a dabbler and never properly understand the inner meaning of the art?

[jfkcotter]

Hello,
Do any of you have a contact for any teacher of this ryu in the UK, I have emailed the American contact a couple of times but not heard anything back, (but then emails dont always arive) if anyone can help I would be most greatfull,

Kind Regards James
Speaking of Koryu schools like KSR and being legitimate how's that little 'art project' involving makimono of yours coming along <wink wink>

[ScottUK]

James,

To continue Andy's comment, but a little harsher - what's going on? You are happy practicing Toyama Ryu with John Evans (and in your words have no intention of leaving) amongst other arts yet you are chasing whatever other schools you can find.

What is it you are looking for? I could direct you to half a dozen koryu schools within travelling distance, but this chasing of ryuha is a little disconcerting.

[Alex Dale]

Great post, Andy. Hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned. Very well said.


Regards,

[Steve Delaney]

This is the second post you have started about finding koryu kenjutsu and related sword schools. sword schools in London (http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35340)

First, you were after Hyoho Niten Ichi-ryu and now you are after Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto-ryu. Looks very much like you want to do koryu for the sake of doing koryu, which at the start is OK, but being this fickle (yes, I said fickle!) on an open forum, where a lot of koryu practicioners train is rather unwise.

If you really wanted to do HNIR, it's a train ride away. I have to do it in Japan all the time for the koryu I train in. I'm in Saitama at the moment and have to do a 2 hour train ride to the dojo I'm a member of and then another 2 hours back. If you really wanted to do it, you would have.

In your previous thread, quite a few people watched and said nothing. It wasn't because they didn't know, they wanted to know the lay of the land. (i.e. your intentions)

[lowblow]

Speaking of Koryu schools like KSR and being legitimate how's that little 'art project' involving makimono of yours coming along <wink wink>
RE Scroll/art project, this stems from some painting I have been doing (well attempting to do), basicly I bought I book with an interesting ilustration of a Samaurai on its cover and for the last year or so have been trying to do some of my own and thought it might be nice to paint one on to a scroll. I have also been doing ilustrations to acompany the notes that I take in my class's and was thinking that when my ilustrations get a bit better that I might copy them into a scroll, I was not aware of how much these scrolls cost, I hope this answers your question.

Regards James

[lowblow]

Thanks for all your posts in this thread, I do welcome your thoughts and comments, I will address the questions you have raised here either this evening or tomorow, as I'm not online long today,

Kind Regards James

[lowblow]

The motivation behind my question here, stems from my feeling that I should be attending more of the Jujutsu/ninpo class's than I am at the moment (as I attend two of these, which are not too far from me) unfortunatly the rest of the jujutsu/ninpo class's are out in Essex, a little too far for me to travel to on a regular basis. Because of this I began looking at other schools and ryu. This in turn got me thinking about attending class's in a ryu that has both sword and unarmed techniques in its sylybus hence my request for a contact in TSKR. I am genuinly sorry if my posts have given rise to suspision, and would like to assure you all that I was only nervous about posting this from the begining as I did not want to cause any offence to anyone. The motivation behind my original post about other sword schools and niten, came from things I have read, and from one of my teacher mentioning things about niten, and his repeated recomendation that should I get the chance it would be very benificial to see some practioners of it in action. As well as a genuine desire to meet other people who practice these arts.
Kind Regards James McDine

[johan smits]

Koryu people are a distrustful lot.

Must be the influence of 'ye olde fighting arts' which gets to them.

:p
best regards,

Johan Smits

[Fred27]

Koryu people are a distrustful lot.

Must be the influence of 'ye olde fighting arts' which gets to them.

:p
best regards,

Johan Smits

Most likely they are cautious of the corrupting influences which is a very real factor in this day and age. Hell, even during the Edo-period they were weary of it of it in TSKR. Thats why its one of the most, if not THE most, best-preserved Koryu in Japan.

*edit*

Corruption may sound dramatic, but considering the contents of the "Baffling" and "Bad" budo-section on this forum...I think it's a fitting description :)

[Steve Delaney]

Koryu people are a distrustful lot.

Must be the influence of 'ye olde fighting arts' which gets to them.

:p
best regards,

Johan Smits

What do you expect with so many kata thieves and people trying to make names for themselves, selling a hodge podge of karate, judo and aikido and passing it off as "koryu jujutsu"?

Frederik Hall hit the nail on the head.

[ScottUK]

People are very protective of what they love. It ain't elitism, just a fear of seeing some donkey doing TSKSR on YouTube and saying they are a master of it... could be a damaging situation to the teacher.

I'm not associating the above with Lowblow, just stating a possibility for the guarded way people treat their koryu.

Lowblow, there are people on here who may help you, as long as they feel your intentions are good. Maybe you could tell these people a little bit about yourself and your background?

[Steve Delaney]

Indeed. Good post.

[johan smits]

Aaaaahhhhh,

I feel a "sharing" moment developing overhere.

These really are the best moments at e-budo, that is apart from the jewels of posts packed with info (of which - by the way - we do not see a lot lately overhere) posted by people who really know.

But in the meantime we are making progress. Koryu is expanding.

For example I know about a non-commercial - dedicated teacher of jujutsu who is trying to make up his mind and decide with which koryu he would like to get in touch. He has got something like three different options all within Europe. Sounds cool to me.

Best regards,

Johan Smits

[lowblow]

A bit about me, I turned thirty this year, I've spent most of my working life working as a chef. I have been very fortunate in this profession in that I've worked under some of the best chefs in the world, I think a certain amount of this is down to having been at the right place at the right time, and part of it is having been hungry (maybe not the best choice of words in this context) enough to put the long hours in that are required in most of the better restaurants. For the first 7 or 8 years of my time as a chef, I pretty much dedicated all of my time to it, when not working I would be meeting other chefs, eating in other restaurants, and reading cookery books, in retrospect Im not so sure that this was healthy. About four years ago after a period of ill health I had a good look at my self and my life and decided to start looking at other interests, and possibly even other another career, to this end I got a job with less hours, and began a university degree part time. I initialy chose a law degree, but after 2 years came to the conclusion that I had chosen this for the wrong reasons ie I realised that I wasnt doing the degree in law because I wanted to, rather because of how I thought other people would percieve me, as someone who would be working in the legal profession. Any way if theres one thing I have learnd from being a chef it is that if you are going to do well in your job/career it had better be somthing that you are passionat about, and I am at the moment looking at other options in terms of finnishing my degree in another area. I began with the martial arts last year, after having wanted to do it for a very long time, but never having felt that I had the patiance or time to dedicate to it in any real way. I have to say that I cannot believe how its made me feel, I am much more happy and content in my self. People that I have worked with for a long time have noticed that I am much better at work, as I am alot more calm. And I am paying attenion to my health seriously for the first time in years. I realise I have probably rambled on here, writing about my self has never been a strong point of mine. If there is anything you wish to ask me about this please do not hesitate to do so.
Sincerely James

[Andy Watson]

Hi James

Thank you for a very open and honest self-appraisal. Few people have the guts to do that online.

I can see where you are coming from as I had the same experience when I first started martial arts.

Without sounding depracating to you, I was like a child in a sweet shop - so many choices of what to do and all of them so interesting and different. I think this is a good and healthy approach to starting martial arts and will help you to understand exactly what it is that you want to do. Not so different from your career search I expect.

I guess where the reluctant reactions that appear on this thread come from are that training in a variety of MA types is generally deemed to be a good and "harmless" thing. There is much more contention about people practising various styles within one art.

The rationale I believe for this is something like, training in various arts (within reason) adds more dimensions to the exponent HOWEVER each of those arts needs to be trained in properly and with sincerity. Therefore training in more than one style of one art is seen to be chasing two rabbits and catching neither - howabout five rabbits?

The question it raises is do you think that you are good enough in that particular style to go and dedicate what could be valuable practise time to another style.

Anyway I don't want to sound like I am personally attacking cross-training here. There is a good balance to be struck between available time, number of arts and maybe two styles of one art provided there is some cohesion between them. Spraying your time across a continent of arts will neither develop skill or earn you much respect from your peers who wonder why you only turn up once a week when they train three times.

Furthermore, observational learning about other styles can only be good. Once you step over the line however into participation and dedication leads to dabbling unless you give up something else instead. It should be noted that while we are not Japanese we are following a Japanese tradition and in Japan it is no small thing to change teachers and an incredible task to change styles - enemies can be made.

My personal advice is to go ahead and see other styles to satisfy your interest but don't do your own teacher disservice by taking the focus off your core art. Other styles look interesting at first glance but it's not until you dedicate years and years of practise suffering tendonitis, bad knees and the frequent smack on the head that you discover the REALLY interesting stuff - the stuff about you and what you are made of. This only comes out after many years of practise. All the surface interest in a style is superficial and soon dissappears after you realise that it's all down to long and hard practise.

[lowblow]

Hello Andy, thanks for taking the time to put your thoughts down in here, its very much apreciated,
Kind Regards James

[lowblow]

Just wanted to say that I have been given some amazing help through this thread, with people giving both genuine and usefull ideas, both on here and via PM. And I have lots of things to take away and think about.

Thank you
James