View Full Version : World AIDS day
Indar
11-27-2006, 04:18 AM
December 1st is World Aids day.
What are we (BSKF/WSKO/Hombu) going to do support the fight against AIDS?
December 1st is World Aids day.
What are we (BSKF/WSKO/Hombu) going to do support the fight against AIDS?what do you think we should do? what are you doing?
Indar
11-27-2006, 06:24 AM
what do you think we should do? what are you doing?
The front line seems to be Africa.
What can we do:
personally; take responsibility, i.e. check your HIV status (if you could be at risk) to protect others.
globally: There is a marketing effort i.e. "RED" Amex card, mobile phone, etc. I'm not sure about this, but maybe it is worth supporting; anyone else have ideas on this?
Lobby your goverment for debt relief, try to ensure that the money saved goes to the right people for medical care, anti-retroviral drugs.
Knowing the depth of talent within ShorinjiKempo i'm sure that there are a wealth of ideas out there.
I for one don't think that SK groups should do anything to do with AIDS and HIV.
For a start after 20 years researchers who recieve billions of dollars in grants still fail to show how HIV is related to AIDS, how HIV causes AIDS, or that HIV is even dangerous. Recent research found that HIV did not cause enough damage to the immune system to lower CD4 T-cell counts (white blood cells), and damage to the production facilities of these cells (bone marrow) is what is required to destroy an immune system, which I will get to in a sec.
The biggest threat to Africa is malnuitrition and water purity - the effects of both are the same as AIDS - death - and the statistics fed to the masses do not show the difference in the cause of death. The pure "epidemic" that is AIDS is a statistical farcity created and perpetuated by the loose definition that AIDS has received in recent years (google the CDC definition of AIDS, and note that it has changed several times).
Its long been known that Vitamin C is wonderful, but ascorbic acid is not a patentable (profitable) thing, so you find that expensive, experimental, untested and dangerous drugs are used. Consider AZT, the first miracle AIDS drug that was brought to market. It was done so using a testing method that did not follow standard double-blind with placebo testing, and was not even completed by half of the participants. AZT was orginally made in 1964 as a cancer chemotherapy drug but found to be too lethal and was shelved until used from 1985 on HIV victims. With a 0% survival rate of HIV positive patients taking AZT it makes you wonder what really is happening. Chemotherapy drugs continue to be given to HIV positive people world-wide, and a known side-effect of protese-inhibitor chemotherapy drugs is bone marrow damage, which would only serve to produce AIDS like issues in a patient who might otherwise be healthy. Not to mention research showing that AIDS chemotherapy drugs cause irreversable liver damage.
Immunodeficiency is a serious problem, but we are throwing too much attention, time and money at the wrong problem.
"Virtually all chemotherapeutic regimens can cause depression of the immune system, often by paralysing the bone marrow and leading to a decrease of white blood cells, red blood cells and platelets. "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemotherapy#Immunosuppression_and_myelosuppression
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/press/2000/JANUARY/000104.HTM
Gassho!
Yep, from everything I've heard, seen, and read about HIV and AIDS, Vitamin C and sexual intercourse with virgins are the best antidotes to it. In fact all this is just a plot by the pharmaceutical industry, and we all know anyway that HIV was created by the CIA to wipe out the black and gay populations of the USofA.
Excuse my sarcasm but with over 90% infection rates in some population groups in South Africa and other African countries, babies being born HIV positive and a growing HIV epidemic in Eastern Europe, the perpetuating of this simply unbelievable conspiracy theories makes me physically sick.
AIDS is probably one of the three or four best researched diseases in the world. The fact that no 100% effective cure has been found yet, doesn't mean that the world isn't trying, or that it can be healed by Vitamins. Ask Yourself the simple question: Conspiracy theories aside, if this was so easy, why hasn't AIDS been defeated yet?
Note to all readers: Please excuse the sarcasm and harsh tone of this post. But on such a serious topic such ignorance is just too much to bear for me. I'm really sorry.
Kesshu,
______ Jan.
P. S.: Farcity is not a word. Could You please explain, what You meant by it? Thank You! JL
P. S.: Farcity is not a word. Could You please explain, what You meant by it? Thank You! JL
Sorry, my grasp on English has slipped a fair bit lately. Hows outrageous pack of lies, statsitcal manipulation? Conditions and diseases that have no relation to AIDS, that have been present and pandemic before AIDS, are statistically counted as AIDS by definition - a person who dies of malnutrition, TB, malaria, people who have diarrhea and suffer weight loss are all defined as having AIDS, even in the absence of testing. I like how you manage to produce a statistic without source, context or clear meaning.
Proper randomised, double blind, placebo-controlled studies have not been made with the current AIDS drugs, which have a 100% failure-rate (with all patients dying), while patients who refuse treatment and live are considered to be "miracle" cases.
I'm not laying down any conspiracy theories, nothing I am saying is unusal or untrue. If HIV caused AIDS there would be clear scientific papers that singually or collectivly show this, but this doesn't exist, and most people ignore that the HIV-AIDS link is still in the realm of theory.
Ofcourse I'm just a language-impared Kenshi, but I'm sure people such as Dr. Kary Mullis (1993 Nobel Prize for Chemistry for inventing the polymerase chain reaction, the basis for the HIV viral load tests), Dr. David Rasnick (PhD, Biochemist, Protease Inhibitor Developer, University of California), Dr. Charles Thomas (PhD, former Professor of Biochemistry, Harvard and Johns Hopkins Universities), Dr. Beverly E. Griffin (PhD, Director, Department of Virology, Royal Postgraduate Medical School, London), Dr. Roberto Giraldo (MD, specialist in internal medicine, infectious and tropical diseases, New York. Former Chairman of the Department of Microbiology and Parasitology, University of Antioquia, Medellin, Colombia. Author, Aids and Stressors), Dr. Walter Gilbert (PhD, Professor of Molecular Biology, Harvard University. Winner, 1980 Nobel Prize for chemistry), and many, many more virology, biochemistry, biology, and medical experts all question HIV.
By far the most interesting is the views and research of Dr. Peter Duesberg, PhD, Professor of Molecular Biology University of California, who has opposed the HIV causes AIDS theory since the 1980's. Being one of the first people to map the genetic structure of retroviruses (what HIV is beleived to be) what he says should pull allot of weight, but is drowned out. Why?
How is any of this a "conspiracy" or "ignorance". Its been 22 years, almost as long as I have been alive, since AIDS came into the spotlight, and its estimated over US$120Billion dollars has been spent on research. It is still not known:
)What causes AIDS
)How whatever causes AIDS weakens the immune system
Its not easy, and considering that Vitamins have been shown to support a weakened immune system more than lethal anti-HIV drugs do that its a far better choice. Finding a cure for anything is never easy, but its not going to be possible while we are looking in the wrong places.
David Dunn
11-29-2006, 01:24 AM
Leon's right that there is not a scientific consensus on these things. Peter Duesberg has long argued that HIV doesn't cause AIDS, but that AIDS is the name given to a group of syndromes associated with recreational drug use, mainly poppers, and indeed that the anti-AIDS drug AZT is what kills patients. This has some support among scientists, but the vast majority think that he's wrong. Here's a link that discusses it http://avert.org.uk/evidence.htm along with lots of other stuff.
Indar
11-29-2006, 02:16 AM
If you are interested in this subject and live in the UK I suggest that you buy a copy of todays Guardian newspaper.
We are sometimes told to "read between the lines"; before you do this it's probably a good idea to be able to read what is in front of you.
There is some discussion as to whether there is a link between HIV and AIDS. I know volunteers in Nigeria who work with people suffering from AIDS, I don't think that there is any doubt that there is a real problem. I agree that there is a priority to ensure that everyone has access to clean water, enough food, and basic medical care.
Perhaps we could acknowledge World AIDS days by discussing this issue during the howa part of your lesson; ask your branch master.
Great page David, and I don't want to sound whingy, but the "evidence that HIV causes AIDS", specifically the section on Koch's Postulate, shows the glaring gap in the HIV-AIDS link. Specifically the first condition, in which the virus has to be found in every case of the disease, by pure definition if the virus does not exist the disease does not exist, and AIDS is not a disease but a label for more common diseases - pneumonia with HIV is AIDS, pneumonia without HIV is pneumonia.
Circular reasoning that artifically strengthens the argument, which the page does mention, but then ignores.
I also had a chuckle at calling the proportion of scientists who question the HIV-AIDS theory as being "tiny", especially when many of the people who have pioneered techniques and knowledge that is considered key in the field are among those speaking out, and putting their neck on the line by standing to lose all funding and/or jobs and thus losing their livelyhood.
I agree that there is a priority to ensure that everyone has access to clean water, enough food, and basic medical care.
What is more important and should be the top priority? - that people have advanced medicines that do not cure, or that people have safe drinkable water and food?
Kari MakiKuutti
11-29-2006, 03:00 AM
Leon's right that there is not a scientific consensus on these things. Peter Duesberg has long argued that HIV doesn't cause AIDS, but that AIDS is the name given to a group of syndromes associated with recreational drug use, mainly poppers, and indeed that the anti-AIDS drug AZT is what kills patients. This has some support among scientists, but the vast majority think that he's wrong. Here's a link that discusses it http://avert.org.uk/evidence.htm along with lots of other stuff.
So in Africa a lot of people are using recreational drugs, mainly poppers? And then AZT causes their AIDS deaths?
because of my lack of information i can't say who's right and who isn't in my opinion, but my general problem with discussions regarding "conspiracy theories" or something similar is, that for me it's hard to imagine that there are so much ignorant or arrogant or "stupid" or "conspired" or whatever ... scientists.
David Dunn
11-29-2006, 03:50 AM
So in Africa a lot of people are using recreational drugs, mainly poppers? And then AZT causes their AIDS deaths?
Kari, note that I'm not endorsing the point of view, just mentioning that it is one that exists in the virology community. Duesberg argues that a lot of deaths in Africa that are attributed to AIDS, are in fact due to diseases of starvation and unsanitary living conditions. This is clearly true - it is impossible to check properly. One thing is clear - millions of Africans die every year for want of modern sanitary living conditions, food and hospitals.
Gassho!
Sorry, my grasp on English has slipped a fair bit lately. Hows outrageous pack of lies, statsitcal manipulation? Thanks, that's at least interpretable for someone without native English skills. I guess "statsitcal" is meant to be "statistical".
This isn't a problem I'm having just with You, Leon, but with most of the native English posters on here, the majority of all posters: You do not seem to understand or care, that it's twice as hard for non-native speakers to understand things written in English if they're written carelessly, with plenty misspelled words, slang or other stuff like that. How is someone from a non-English speaking country who didn't by coincidence have an opportunity to watch the Loony Toons in original know what "Bad Puddy-Tat" (or sth. like that) is supposed to mean? IMHO this desereves an extra thread, but please ask Yourself (all of You!) whether You want this to be an English or an international forum. Because that is a difference!
To finish this, I proof-read all my posts before posting out of courtesy to those I expect to read them and because a lot of rambling gets syphoned out that way. There're probably still loads of mistakes left, but I'm trying.
I like how you manage to produce a statistic without source, context or clear meaning.Please excuse me for not putting a source to where that (90% infection rates in some population groups in Africa...) came from. Unfortunately I read it in a German newspaper (www.zeit.de, if You read German just put "aids" in the search field and You'll get plenty of articles, all freely accessable).
http://www.zeit.de/2005/23/Aids: "The epidemic will beat us" gives numbers for Europe.
http://www.zeit.de/2005/49/Aids-Pandemie: "The sleepless night" is an article by Henning Mankell, I suppose it's available in English somewhere, since he's originally Swedish.
http://www.zeit.de/2003/49/aids_waisen_afrika: "Aids-orphans in Africa", the title says it all.
http://www.zeit.de/2004/49/aids-haupttext: "Virus without borders" is about the worldwide spread.
I didn't find the article I was referring to with the number I gave above, I'll keep looking later. If there's interest in having some of the texts translated, just ask me.
Kesshu,
______ Jan.
So in Africa a lot of people are using recreational drugs, mainly poppers? And then AZT causes their AIDS deaths?
All people in Africa were well nourished, had access to drinkable water and basic medical care before 1985?
Gassho!
Thanks, that's at least interpretable for someone without native English skills.
I have to admit your posts in English do end up far better than my own lately, but I will run my posts through a spell checker just in case there is something I've missed. I'll make the extra effort from now on :)
When I try and access those pages I get the error:
Die von Ihnen eingegebene Internetadresse verweist auf keinen Inhalt von ZEIT online.
I think I broke something... Does it say where they get their statistics from? Its important to have a source (more than likely the WHO) and the context when dealing with statistics. For example, if AIDS is causing such extreme damage, why have gross death rates not seen a massive increase? Statistically in the last 20 years AIDS related deaths have sky-rocketed (because before 1985 such deaths were related to the actual disease) but how much of this is actual AIDS, how much is "normal" infection, and how much is plain mis-labling?
http://www.unicef.org/mdg/childmortality.html
Unicef clearly states that "malnutrition and the lack of safe water and sanitation contribute to half of all" of children deaths in developing countries including African and South East Asian countries. More than 70 per cent of almost 11 million child deaths every year are attributable to six causes: diarrhoea, malaria, neonatal infection, pneumonia, preterm delivery, or lack of oxygen at birth.
Diarrhoea, malaria, pneumonia are 3 conditions that come under the WHO definition as possible indicators of AIDS, all of which have been around for as long as we can remember, and are caused by conditions unrelated to AIDS and HIV ("malnutrition and the lack of safe water and sanitation"). But you can bet that they are counted as "AIDS related deaths", and the epidemic continues.
Steve Malton
11-29-2006, 06:27 PM
When I try and access those pages I get the error:
Die von Ihnen eingegebene Internetadresse verweist auf keinen Inhalt von ZEIT online.
"The internet address you are trying to access is not available at ZEIT online." If Jan can see it and we can't, it's probably because the site is restricted to German IP addresses. (Tried to check this but my German logins have expired... but I recall the BBC doing this with some of their content.)
Gassho!
I have to admit your posts in English do end up far better than my own lately, but I will run my posts through a spell checker just in case there is something I've missed. I'll make the extra effort from now on :)Do ita shimashite(sp.?). I must admit that I'm more sensitised to spelling mistakes than others because part of my job is proof-reading (like right now :( ). It's actually hard for me sometimes to "just read" something, and I'm not very happy about it because I really enjoy reading.
When I try and access those pages I get the error:
Die von Ihnen eingegebene Internetadresse verweist auf keinen Inhalt von ZEIT online.
I think I broke something... That's my bad (or actually eBudo's ;) ). eBudo interpretes the colons as part of the URLs, delete them and You should be fine. Maybe one of the moderators could even go to the extra effort of putting this right? I'd be very grateful.
Does it say where they get their statistics from? Its important to have a source (more than likely the WHO) and the context when dealing with statistics. For example, if AIDS is causing such extreme damage, why have gross death rates not seen a massive increase? Statistically in the last 20 years AIDS related deaths have sky-rocketed (because before 1985 such deaths were related to the actual disease) but how much of this is actual AIDS, how much is "normal" infection, and how much is plain mis-labling?
Yep, IIRC the WHO was mentioned in at least one of the articles. Statistics are tricky, indeed. AFAIK the main problem with AIDS related deaths is that in fact no one dies of AIDS for the simple reason that what AIDS does is weakening the immune system to the point when a simple cold will kill the infected. That's probably why it's so hard to decide what to blame that death on.
For example if someone takes a shot of heroine or gets completely drunk and then gets into his car and kills himself (and others) in a car crash this goes down into the statistics, AFAIK, at least in Germany as a traffic related death.
Kesshu,
______ Jan.
Edit:
Re. Steve: Try the pages as mentioned above, I don't think they're restricted. We Germans are so infinitely more liberal than You! :D ;) JL
Gassho!
http://www.zeit.de/archiv/2001/21/200121_aids-epidemie.xml – "A unique chance": AIDS in Africa, medications still too expensive, Thabo Mbeki denying that HIV causes AIDS (Die ZEIT interpretation: denial of failures in fighting AIDS and deflection from the accusation of buying a private plane with anti-AIDS help money from Europe), badly done generica causing death (in Nigeria among other countries)
http://www.zeit.de/2006/24/M-Kurth-Interview_xml – "Conditions like in Africa": AIDS in Germany
http://www.zeit.de/2006/24/M-Aids_xml – "Just bury Your children right away": AIDS in Russia (NB: that's two articles in one issue)
http://www.zeit.de/2004/49/aids-china – "The foreign disease": AIDS in China
http://www.zeit.de/2003/45/Fotoausstellung – "The sick continent": AIDS in Africa; quote (2nd paragraph from top: "Especially South Africa is being ravaged by the epidemic. 5 Mio. people there live with the virus in their blood. […] In rural areas and poor quarters experts estimate 80-90% infected. [And next sentence NB:] Long since the epidemic has clouded the view on the tropic diseases, raging for centuries nearly unchanged, like malaria, yellow fever, or sleeping sickness. The debate over cheap therapeutic agents against HIV is distracting from the fact that many Africans are lacking the most simple, cent-cheap medications."
... and so on. "AIDS" alone will give You 456 hits.
Kesshu,
______ Jan.
Indar
11-30-2006, 02:02 AM
Leon's right that there is not a scientific consensus on these things.
probably a good thing when you read the nonsense that "scientists" (http://education.independent.co.uk/higher/article2024763.ece)
are capable of coming out with.
Steve Malton
11-30-2006, 05:19 AM
That's my bad (or actually eBudo's ;) ). eBudo interpretes the colons as part of the URLs, delete them and You should be fine. Maybe one of the moderators could even go to the extra effort of putting this right? I'd be very grateful.
Re. Steve: Try the pages as mentioned above, I don't think they're restricted. We Germans are so infinitely more liberal than You! :D ;) JL
Indeed. Sorry, it was far too late at night for me to notice something simple like that :p
Hey Guys,
This is a very good topic but besides all the medical studies and statistics, there also has to be discussion about preventive measures. This would include an examination about cultural attitudes, practices and rituals and is in itself not a very easy topic to talk about.
probably a good thing when you read the nonsense that "scientists" (http://education.independent.co.uk/higher/article2024763.ece)
are capable of coming out with.
Its a psychologist - did you expect any different? :p
Indar
12-01-2006, 12:37 AM
OK; a challenge/request/suggestion/idea
Since today is world AIDS day, at your next training session ask your branch master (or yourself if you are the branch master) whether ShorinjiKempo should be involved in the fight against AIDS, and if so, how?
Rob Gassin
12-01-2006, 04:06 AM
Its a psychologist - did you expect any different? :p
I think he is right - Scientist have found that female brains are the size of squirrel brains .......................................................................according to Borat :p :p :p
Indar
12-01-2006, 04:13 AM
I think he is right - Scientist have found that female brains are the size of squirrel brains .......................................................................according to Borat :p :p :p
Reminds me of something that Camille Paglia (http://www.randomhouse.com/pantheon/paglia/) is supposed to have said:
"If Women were running the world we'd still be living in caves"
She could well be right (although we'd be happy)
The counterpart to this is that if Men were running the world we'd all be dead.
Gassho!
Okaaay, so neither women nor men are running the world ... it actually is the cats then? I always knew it!
Kesshu,
______ Jan.
Indar
12-01-2006, 05:47 AM
UK Independent newspaper (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_technology/article2029298.ece)
Indar
12-01-2006, 01:39 PM
The last training at Brixton this year will be on Saturday 2nd December.
Since Mizuno Sensei is currently a WSKO director this could be an ideal opportunity to ask him about WSKOs' policy on AIDS relief.
dirk.bruere
12-02-2006, 09:59 AM
December 1st is World Aids day.
What are we (BSKF/WSKO/Hombu) going to do support the fight against AIDS?
Personally, I shall try to avoid being buggered by random strangers.
More to the point, what about malaria and diarhea (sp?) - between them they kill far more than AIDS and both are far more cureable. At least people have something of a choice when having sex (or not), although being bitten by a tetse fly or drinking bad water can be pretty much unavoidable for everyone.
Dirk
Steve Williams
12-03-2006, 08:18 AM
While this topic is close to the heart of ShorinjiKempo kenshi, it is not PURELY A ShorinjiKempo topic.
So I think it should be out in the general population, so its going to the lounge.
More to the point, what about malaria and diarhea (sp?) - between them they kill far more than AIDS and both are far more cureable.
You've hit on a major point I have - that malaria and diarrhoea are both listed by the WHO to be possible signs of AIDS in Africa where testing is not available (as well as weight loss), so these controllable problems are stacked into the AIDS pile and we go nuts about organizing ineffective and unrelated drugs to try and "cure" things.
Things are nowhere near as clearcut as the media makes it out to be, and hasn't from the beginning. If you have a chance read the paper that was credited with "discovering" HIV, and you'll find that less than half the patients showed any reaction to HIV antibody tests, and the conclusion was a "possible" connection between this new "possible" virus and AIDS.
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