Kongojo/Kongozue and assorted Jo questions

[paul browne]

Hello,
I was wondering whether anyone on the Jo forum, or the Koryu one for that matter could provide information on the Kongojo or Kongzue (the names seem interchangeable).
My interest is due to my study of Shorinji Kempo where it is identified as an alternative stick to the more common (barely) Shakujo. In our English liturature it is descibed as being 120cm long and of hexagonal cross section.
Googling it only provides further links to Shorinji websites or to Buddhist pilgrimage sites, which are interesting but don't further my knowledge of it's martial usage. Serge Mol's book 'Classical Weaponry of Japan' identifies it as a weapon used in an old Jujutsu school the Saihoin Buan Ryu which it describes as using a thick, round kongojo. It also states that it was a common pilgrims staff, usually thicker than a standard Jo.
My question is has anyone come across the Kongojo/Kongozue as a seperate discipline within Koryu, or as part of another art ?(as opposed to just Jodo/Jojutsu with an unusually thick stick). If so how did it differ from normal (?) Jodo? Did the sticks dimensions influence how it was used.
As an aside my only real points of reference for the Jo are observations of Aiki-jo and Shinto Muso Ryu, are the other traditions of using the shorter stick significantly different in appearance from these arts (which look different I admit.....try not to treat it as a stupid question:)) in the way for example the stick arts of India, Portugal and the Canaries look different from them?
Thank you for your time.
Paul

[Tom Karazozis]

Hello Mr. Browne,

Well, I can't really specify whether or not there was a ryuha that strictly concentrated on the study of fighting with a Kongo-zue, but all I can tell you is that sometimes it was used for defense against wild animals by Yamabushi. For Sendatsu the Kongo-zue is octagonal and the length is about 5 shaku(approx. 150cm) and for the very high level priests its cylindrical and about 180cm(approx. 180cm). As for the priests(sakki sendatsu) that would take care of slaying the "crazy beasts from hell", theirs(the kongozue) were equiped with a concealed spear head.

The Kongo-zue of the Yamabushi(and this is only from what I know based on the Yamabushi from Haguro-san in Yamagata) were usually made of cypress or oak. I have one right next to me made of Japanese Cypress(hinoki). It was given to me by my wife's grandpops. I would never train with it in a Jo type of context, as I would easily have it snap in two.

As for other Jo traditions differing in appearance from Shinto muso ryu and Aiki Jo, the answer is, yes, there are. I study Muhi Muteki Ryu Jojutsu which uses a longer type of Jo and I can say that it is very different, due to the fact that it is generally based on Sojutsu.

[Tom Karazozis]

180cm(approx. 180cm)

Sorry! That's about 6 shaku(approx. 180cm).

[paul browne]

Hello Mr. Karazosis,

Thank you for your very comprehensive reply. I would appreciate it if you could enlighten me a little further. What do the terms Sendatsu and sakki sendatsu mean, would it be like novice (in the religious sense) and priest? and is the Octagonal stick significantly thicker than a standard Jo?
Can I also ask you to tell me more about Muhi Muteki Ryu Jojutsu, is it a comprehensive Bujutsu with the jojutsu being a part of it? would I be right in assuming that Tsuki waza form the majority of techniques as it is based on Sojutsu or does it presume to use a broken spear and so bring the metal end piece (ishizuki?) into play?
Thank you for indulging my fascination for big sticks:). Whilst my chosen art (for the last twenty three years) is predominantly an unarmed one the practice of the staff has added a dimension to my training I really enjoy so I'd like to broaden my knowledge,at least on the history and variety of forms that exist.
Regards
Paul
(please feel free to call me Paul in future posts, i am aware of the Japanese formality but I am in a profession where being called Mr. Browne is usually a precurser to 'difficulties' coming my way:))

[Tom Karazozis]

Thank you for your very comprehensive reply. I would appreciate it if you could enlighten me a little further. What do the terms Sendatsu and sakki sendatsu mean, would it be like novice (in the religious sense) and priest?


Yes, I am sorry about that. I only realized the next day that I did not put in more detail about the meanings of 'Sendatsu' etc... Pretty rough week and there was alot of heavy 'Nomunication'(that's Japa-English for drinking alcohol)going on!

Anyways, 'Sendatsu' are (in general) high level Yamabushi. Neophytes are called 'Shinkyaku' and don't even use Kongozue for pilgrimages, only plain carved tree branches which are discarded after the pilgrimage. 'Sakki-Sendatsu' are usually the ones that really know the mountain paths and are usually in front of the line.




and is the Octagonal stick significantly thicker than a standard Jo?

Well, the one that was given to me is just a little thicker than the Jo I use.



Can I also ask you to tell me more about Muhi Muteki Ryu Jojutsu, is it a comprehensive Bujutsu with the jojutsu being a part of it?

It is a complete Jo style based more on Sojutsu. This style also has Yawara(Jujutsu) that was combined together with Muhi Muteki ryu back in the days. Nemoto Heizaburo's line teaches Iga ryuha katsushin ryu yawara, but I am learning the actual Iga Ryu Katchu Yawara (and no it's not associated with any 'ninjer' stuff, different kanji and it comes from Ibaraki) from my sensei that was founded by Ebata Masaemon Mitsusane and which later on inspired the creation of Iga ryuha Katsushin Ryu in the late 1800's.




would I be right in assuming that Tsuki waza form the majority of techniques as it is based on Sojutsu or does it presume to use a broken spear and so bring the metal end piece (ishizuki?) into play?


Yes, I can tell you it's a very aggressive style of Jo. Alot of thrusts, feints, strikes you name it, and yes there are follow through waza where you feint a tsuki and come up from under with a strike to the throat or chin as if you were striking with the Ishizuki(but no doubt it would still hurt with a Jo).




Thank you for indulging my fascination for big sticks:). Whilst my chosen art (for the last twenty three years) is predominantly an unarmed one the practice of the staff has added a dimension to my training I really enjoy so I'd like to broaden my knowledge,at least on the history and variety of forms that exist.


Anytime! You're more than welcome.



(please feel free to call me Paul in future posts, i am aware of the Japanese formality but I am in a profession where being called Mr. Browne is usually a precurser to 'difficulties' coming my way:))


LOL!, OK got ya Paul.