View Full Version : Working for pins in randori
I wanted to ask this here on the forum to get some different opinions. Any opinion is great.
During newaza randori do you feel it is best to work for submissions and such, or do you feel, since the rules of judo place a great deal of emphasis on pinning, that osaekomiwaza should be the most important goal in hardcore randori. I ask this because I personally am doing pretty well with osaekomi, and am finding success pinning people for much longer than the 20 sec mark. I am very content going for the pin, and was able to work kesa gatame, yokoshiho, and kamishiho into my BJJ days as well. I didn't get many submissions on the BJJ guys, but usually found myself on top in any of the three positions above. Is this a good goal in sparring? Or does anyone think focusing on joint locks and chokes is the better strategy?
Any opinions on this?
Thanks in advance.
02-01-2001, 12:57 AM
Hasn't the osaekomi time limit for ippon now twenty-five seconds, and waza-ari twenty, with yuko up to ninteen seconds?
Since you can pin for much longer than this, make thirty seconds the goal. Generally, an escape can take much longer anyway if you put yourself in position to be pinned well and trying to escape from that well-placed osaekomiwaza.
Time limit Ippon usually takes more time than securing an elbow lock, but I would go with your strengths. Not in the literal sense of strength but whichever is your "tokui waza."
I was speaking with Mr. Larry Kobayashi over the summer. He is a student of Mr. Kenneth Kuniyuki, and gave me some very wise advice while speaking about technique. Kobayashi sensei said "Use what works."
It doesn't get any more concise than that. In general, I fought guys who were much taller and heavier than myself, but when on top with the opponent drawn up like a turtle, some wrestling moves seemed to work well for me. Slipping a hand under the arm of uke, if possible, and then the hand as far across the back or neck of uke, and pushing the head down while lifing with the arm, works pretty well in turning uke, especially against those who stiffen up like plywood. After that, you have two options, the pin (yokoshiho gatame) or an arm lock (ude garame), or both (OK, three options, then).
You have good experience here. Use what works.
Other than that, to really get a feel for osaekomiwaza, play katami randori from uke's view point. If you can escape what you know how to apply, you probably would know just how well you really are doing. That's what I did, but then the ground was never much over five feet away from me.;)
02-01-2001, 04:12 AM
Well, it was long ago, but I aways went for the osaekomi and held it for thirty.
Used to like to get 'em in kesa gatame and stop their escapes, always felt that was really rbbing it in, but when you flip over the turtle, I used to hook in between the elbow and knees, go for yoko shiho.
If they started to get loose from kesa, almost always when this hapened it was before I could lock their right arm under the armpit, I'd fling their right over their neck and make it a kata gatame and bear down good. I was openweight, and never had much troble after that..
Usually never had to use arm pins , but ude garami sometimes just happened also.
I hear that jujigatame is quite popular nowadays. that is a fine hold down too.Pretty much they all are.But that one may be an easy hold.Get it right though, or they'll roll backwards right out of it.:-)
02-01-2001, 09:50 PM
My own two cents worth on this topic... I've always taught that matwork is a triangle. You have pins, armbars, and chokes... each sets up the others. An escape from a pin sets up the armbar, a defense to the choke sets up the pin, and so on. If you keep the "triangle" in mind, you can learn to run combinations on matwork the same way you turn a failed Taiotoshi into Ouchigari.
02-02-2001, 04:06 AM
We used to call it "transition." In fact, it still is called transition. It's like the old kid's rhyme about links to different body parts.
02-02-2001, 01:25 PM
Good one. Will keep that.:-)
02-10-2001, 03:55 PM
I always liked to try for harai goshi with my arm around the neck and follow the harai with my body so uke and I both cleared the mat by about three feet. That way, I already had kesa gatame when we hit the mat, and because I was inside the arc of uke's body as he was going over, I got a good otoshi (slam or "fall from a high place") to occupy his mind and body for a few of those precious seconds while I was "cinching up" my ne-waza. It always seemed easier (or more efficient) to get my kesa standing and hang on to it than throw and try for ne-waza later as a separate action.
02-11-2001, 12:34 AM
Good to hear from you, Ed. Your waza sounds just like mine. I did this even with a variation on tai otoshi, and if you get him over, you're there.
Seems as if we had the same type of training for randori/shiai. A little rough on the body when done TO me these days, but it is a good description. On another bulletin board, another judoka does his harai goshi the same way, and he is a big one, and admits to "I've always been on the big side." Definitely, you don't want to be uke when it is done by the bigguns. You know, about 5'9" legs about nine inches, and a center on the next floor down.:)
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