The other Funakoshis and Shotokan

[Andrew S]

I recently began to think about the Funakoshi family and wondered to what extent any of them, aside from Giko, were involved in karate.
I have read that Gichin's eldest son was quite an adept, but had an unfortunate gambling problem. He was also the rallying point for the Shotokai following Gichin's death. What ever became of him and his karate?
Also, did the elder Funakoshi teach his grandchildren?
I would appreciate any help answering these questions.

[Gusta in Japan]

Ken Funakoshi 9th Dan
http://www.shotokankarate.ca/Shihan%20Funakoshi.htm

[Andrew S]

He is a relative of Gichin, but never trained under him. In fact, Kenneth Funakoshi learned karate from Nakayama's students.
I was asking specifically about Gichin's direct decendents.

[Gusta in Japan]

He is a relative of Gichin, but never trained under him. In fact, Kenneth Funakoshi learned karate from Nakayama's students.
I was asking specifically about Gichin's direct decendents.
I would appreciate any help answering these questions.
Thank you for your very condescending reply. You asked about family members who practiced Karate and I was only trying to help. I have more information but I think I don't want to get insulted again.

[Prince Loeffler]

Mr. Novak, I searched for the original poster's post, He was nowhere near about being dis-respectful, insulting and condescending to you.

[George Kohler]

I agree with Prince.

His first question was "What ever became of him [Gichin's eldest son] and his karate?"

And

"Also, did the elder Funakoshi teach his grandchildren?"

[Andrew S]

Thank you for your very condescending reply. You asked about family members who practiced Karate and I was only trying to help. I have more information but I think I don't want to get insulted again.

Upon reflection, my reply was rather curt and could be taken as rude. I neither had nor have any intention to sound condescending, and am sorry that my post gave this impression.

[Simon Keegan]

Gigo or Yoshitaka was as influential in the development of Shotokan as anybody. He is credited with popularising the Mawashi Geri, Yoko Geri, Ushiro Mawashi Geri and Kokutsu Dachi.

Like Funakoshi Gichin's other senior students, Gigo trained with other masters and brought back what he had learned.

His deep stances and comparatively flashy kicks were new to Shotokan and perhaps reflects what he may have learned from Chinese or Korean styles.

Shotokan minus Gigo's influence would look like Wado Ryu. Old pictures of Shotokan kata practitioners prior to Gigo show Nekoashi Dachi in place of Kokutsu Dachi and Mae Geri in place of Yoko Geri. In traditional kata there are no Maswashi Geri or Ushiro Mawashi Geri (I know there is a technique in Unsu that resembles Mawashi Geri to a small degree).

In my opinion Gigo took a fairly "upright" boxing art and made it into a more physical demanding, more percussive art that makes greater use of kicks and personal fitness.

Were Gigo's influences a good or bad thing on Shotokan? I guess that depends on one's perspective, but they cannot be underestimated.

As an aside. Does anybody know how exactly Kenneth Funakoshi is related to Gichin? For example was Kenneth's grandmother the cousin of Gichin? He certainly resembles him.

[Andrew S]

Simon,
I believe that Kenneth is decended from one of Gichin's cousins.

Yoshitaka/Giko certainly heavily influenced stances and training methods, but some believe that the stances were already being changed by Shimoda, one of the most senior (if not the most senior) of the pre-war students (most likely to have succeeded Gichin if not for his death).

Without wishing to sound rude, I am more interested in Gichin's other sons (particularly the eldest) and grandchildren and to what extent they learned directly from the elder Funakoshi.

[Simon Keegan]

No problem, I don't think you are being rude at all.

I think Gigo was really the only one of Funakoshi's sons who showed any flair for Karate. But I seem to remember Funakoshi stating that his teachers Itosu and Azato both taught all of Funakoshi's sons and would spoil them with treats and sweets which he could not afford to give them himself because he was poor.

Giei Funakoshi (Gichin's eldest son) caused some problems between him and Hironori Otsuka.

It seems Otsuka was sensible with his money and saved a retirement fund for himself. When Giei amassed gambling debts he used his status as the eldest son of Otsuka's then-teacher to try to convince Otsuka to use his pension to pay off Giei's debts. Because of a sense of Giri, Otsuka did this and never got the money back and then Giei accused Otsuka of fiddling the club books himself.

[Andrew S]

No problem, I don't think you are being rude at all.

I think Gigo was really the only one of Funakoshi's sons who showed any flair for Karate. But I seem to remember Funakoshi stating that his teachers Itosu and Azato both taught all of Funakoshi's sons and would spoil them with treats and sweets which he could not afford to give them himself because he was poor.

Giei Funakoshi (Gichin's eldest son) caused some problems between him and Hironori Otsuka.

It seems Otsuka was sensible with his money and saved a retirement fund for himself. When Giei amassed gambling debts he used his status as the eldest son of Otsuka's then-teacher to try to convince Otsuka to use his pension to pay off Giei's debts. Because of a sense of Giri, Otsuka did this and never got the money back and then Giei accused Otsuka of fiddling the club books himself.

Thanks for this. I never knew that Otsuka was one of the injured parties of Giei's gambling. I wonder if this was one of the factors that caused the break between (Gichin) Funakoshi and Otsuka.
I read that Giei did have a certain flair for karate, but not to the same level as Giko.

Interestingly, the Shotokai gave Giei the position of president following Gichin's death. It seems they wanted to at least keep the Funakoshi's involved.

I actually saw a book by the Shotokai on Yoshitaka/Giko in a normal bookshop over here a couple of years ago, and an kind of kicking myself for not getting it.