Danzan Ryu Jujitsu - Shin Yo

Where is the mind to be focused while performing Shin Yo?

My elementary understanding is that the mind must be projecting outward and no place in particular.

You are to "see the four dots" or look upon the situation as if you are a third person viewing the event.

A prime example is Sennin Gake. In order to survive, an expansive spirit must be projected and you must see the opponents as if you were not involved in the event but as if you are a by standard. So that you can access and shift, strike and evade successfully. If you become too involved in the event then you will become enveloped by it.

Those who possess nothing possess everything because they are possessed by nothing.

All thoughts are welcome.

[Devon Smith]

Hello Legman, please include your name with your post per the guidelines.

Please also realize there are many folks reading here who are not familiar with Danzan-ryu, including myself. If you'd like general input from members other than those familiar with Danzan-ryu, please describe the techniques you've mentioned...we're interested!

Devon

[DZRMAN]

Legman,

Take the shin yo out of it....... How would you apply the four dot's to any of your techinques? Would it change anything at all?

[danzanryu]

interesting thoughts.

First off, it is a reasonable request to ask to include your names on this forum. If you do not wish to use your names, then continue to be a reader only.

As to Shinyo, first, a correction. Many of the lists which have been distributed over the years contain a misprint which continues to be propagated to this day in DZR schools. Shinyo technique #8 should actually be read, "Sennin Kage" and NOT "Sennin Gake". For a more complete listing of these names as well as the correct kanji, please see:

http://www.danzan.com/HTML/BOARDS/shinyo.html

Further to the original point of LEGMAN (name???), it is my researched opinion that much of this mysticism that is often associated with Shinyo no Maki comes from sources other than Prof. Okazaki. While it is true that the Professor meant this board to be practiced with an aggresive mindset, these other "pop philosophy" ideas were added to obfuscate rather than to enlighten the material.

George Arrington
www.danzan.com

Well now Mr Arrington,

I don't see where my desire to remain anonymous detracts from the message in my post.

I posted an intelligent question about the more " esoteric " ideals of a advanced art. My information is AJJF based, but of course you know this.

You and I have met in Florida. When you were a Renshi.

I am not so interested in the Japanese translation of the name of the Art as I am the application and conceptual aspects of the list.

Names are just words, concepts can be applied and techniques can be brought to life.

I have interesting questions about Shinyo and Shin Gen.

But perhaps you are not the one that I should ask??

I am interested in exchanging information, not playing a game of who knows more about the Kanji.

Yes, my name is Legman. I would like to be referred to as such.

[MarkF]

It has nothing to do with your *desire* to remain anonymous, it is because that is a rule here.

These are the rules, and there are not many:

Forum Rules:
Please sign your posts with your full name.
Profanity will not be tolerated.
Blatant commercial advertising is not allowed.
Treat your fellow E-Budo members with respect.


Mr. Arrington's desire to remind you of the rule concerning posting on E-budo has two effects: That you may not have needed this notice by a moderator, and that most who are members of E-budo like to know the person with whom they are "speaking."

Now, as to remaining anonymous, you all ready had that option. You may hide your email, not accept Private Messaging between members, and not be on anyone's "buddy List" a new hack here on this forum. That should maintain your anonymity..
*****

So please, with nothing but the best intentions, you may configure your signature box with your full, real name, and then set it as your personal default. You may also sign each post, but the first option is the easiest.

Sincerely,

[danzanryu]

Thank you, Mark, for reinforcing the code of conduct on this forum. It is too easy for people to hide behind an alias and take pot shots without owning up to and taking responsibilities for their statements.

Repost

As a life member of the AJJF, having begun my relationship with that organization back in 1970, I am very well aware of how they do things. I also know that certain aspects of the advanced curriculum were modified outside of what I believe to be "just a variation". These include Shinyo, Shingen and to a lesser degree Shinnin. I know this because this is how it has been described to me by original Okazaki students who saw the changes over the years (although their categorization of this was far more terse.)

What WAS taught to me, your teacher and 22 others back in 1993 was that the Shinyo was not to be taught to the general public and that it was reserved for instructors only. I would recommend that you should seek this instruction from The Professor.

As for your four dots (and I usually find only one to be sufficient), when you post such questions, you should really elucidate upon your subject matter. Otherwise, it makes the poster appear to be bragging that they know something we don't.

Well, I'll be the first to step up and say that I don't have the foggiest idea of what you're talking about. Perhaps I didn't get to that Carlos Castenada book or that chapter of the Shrimad Bhagavad Gita or whatever. Perhaps you can enlighten us (the real purpose of such forums as these) with what you mean. Otherwise it would be like me asking something like, "During your training have you experienced the night of the salts?" and not explain what THAT means. Hmmmmmmmmm?

George Arrington

P.S.: As to your attempt at an insult about my skills only residing in the written word, or the heritage of one's system, these are better left for discussions at pizza joints. Ask your teacher if he wants you to open very old wounds. Rest assured that my physical as well as intellectual acumen is sufficient in all of the advanced boards in Danzan-Ryu.

[danzanryu]

BTW, nice image of Ryuuko (or are you still mispronouncing it as Rinko).

To let the rest of you in on this, there is a technique in the Shinyo no Maki known as Ryuko, or "tiger vs dragon". (No...not crouching/hidden.)

Anyway, there was a misprint of this technique name back in a 1960's kata manual. It read, "RINKO" rather than "RIUKO" (an alternate spelling of Ryuuko). For years, instructors taught Shinyo #18 as Rinko. I'm sure the Japanese were amused since "rinkou" refers to a group of people alternately reading and interpreting a book. Not a lot of fierce dojo defense in that, ne?

George Arrington

Mr Arrington,

You are way off.

I am no longer a member of the AJJF.

I no longer train with "The Professor"

Hell, I only train DZR with a very good friend of mine.

I train Submission Grappling now.

1st things first.

I posted that question in order to see what kind of responses that I would get. I saw that you were on here and I was interested in your take on things.

I have NEVER been a big fan of "California Jujitsu". I live in S.C. We don't care much about the whole, "way of the peaceful warrior" thing down here.

I have ALWAYS been an applications man, If I can't immediately apply it then I don't want it. I am not interested in techniques that take years to understand and apply.

The "four Dots concept" are some of the esoteric/mystical/fufu crap that I have always been skeptical of. That is why I posted the question in its form, I wanted opinions on it.

You chose to take offense and retort by talking about pronunciation of words, Kanji, and Historical inacuracies?????


What that has to do with anything I'll never know.

2nd - Your skill lies in the "written word" and on historical data. We'll leave it at that.

[Devon Smith]

As suspected. Sometimes first impressions are right, after all.

http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/troll.html

[DZRMAN]

I have been reading the post's between legman and danzanryu. I haven't read anything where you are constructive to any of the post's so maybe you should read your own little troll post again.

[ericDZR]

i vote to move this thread to the bad budo forum! it's become silly and childish and has no value beyond simple entertainment.

[Clive]

Legman, Mr.Arrington did respond to your original point. But in your 1st.repsonse you did not even respond to the your original point of YOURS that he responded to.. Fine your not interested in Japanese translation and he was exchanging information,( but playing a game????.) If you look at your 2nd. response you mention the true motivation why you posted the (baited) question, thus getting the take on things and opinions. Who is taking offense??

Sometimes the background of the translations can show you the basic and higher principles of techniques and lists.

I never heard of this "way of the peaceful warrior California Jujitsu", and I lived hear all my life.

Each technique also has basic and higher principles you can learn if you take the time to learn them even if the technique does not physically work for you.

Back to the original question of "where is the mind to be focused while performing Shin Yo?...The mind is focused on the "mindset". I never heard of of the four dots or that expansive spirit thing. Yes I heard about the posess nothing thing only in enlightenment situations. But my Sensei, Prof. Tony Janovich , taught me that it is the "mindset" is the determining factor. Refer to my Sensei's article he wrote called "Success is in the Beginning" that you can find on the websites (www.kodenkan.com) and (www.danzan.com) that refers to a stonger mind will overcome a weaker mind and of course the rest of the article.

Clive

[ericDZR]

i vote to move this thread to the bad budo forum! it's become silly and childish and has no value beyond simple entertainment.

[danzanryu]

Yes, this meaningless banter is pointless and moronic. I'll take the hit for not recognizing the guy under the bridge.

I thank Clive for his enlightened and experienced response, but I'll not transfer any more pearls to the coffers of the gentleman from South Carolina.

George Arrington
Editor, The Danzan-Ryu Jujutsu Homepage
www.danzan.com

[Clive]

Legman, Mr.Arrington did respond to your original point. But in your 1st.repsonse you did not even respond to the your original point of YOURS that he responded to.. Fine your not interested in Japanese translation and he was exchanging information,( but playing a game????.) If you look at your 2nd. response you mention the true motivation why you posted the (baited) question, thus getting the take on things and opinions. Who is taking offense??

Sometimes the background of the translations can show you the basic and higher principles of techniques and lists.

I never heard of this "way of the peaceful warrior California Jujitsu", and I lived hear all my life.

Each technique also has basic and higher principles you can learn if you take the time to learn them even if the technique does not physically work for you.

Back to the original question of "where is the mind to be focused while performing Shin Yo?...The mind is focused on the "mindset". I never heard of of the four dots or that expansive spirit thing. Yes I heard about the posses nothing thing only in enlightenment situations. But my Sensei, Prof. Tony Janovich , taught me that it is the "mindset" is the determining factor. Refer to my Sensei's article he wrote called "Success is in the Beginning" that you can find on the websites (www.kodenkan.com) and (www.danzan.com) that refers to a stronger mind will overcome a weaker mind and of course the rest of the article.

Clive

[Clive]

Please ericDZR, OK we see your opinion about your vote, but lets hear your opinion to the original question that started this thread.

Clive

[Neil Hawkins]

This thread is going nowhere. Legman you have been asked to supply your name as per forum rules, you have declined.

I thought that there may be some interesting information to come out of this but it has degenerated. There is no further use in persuing it so I am closing the thread. Please do not start a new one along the same lines.

Neil