Kenjutsu Not Work!

[bujijar]

Sorry for having such a harsh title but I want some one to look at this :-). But when noticing kejutsu the sword cuts are to open and slow. Which is the same with all japanese sword fighting. It tends to be easly dodged and avoided. Get in a fight with a Chinese Kung Fu swordsman better watch out. I have nothing bad about the japanese swords, or arts becuase I am currently training int he Bujinkan but it just seems that way.


Steven Nichols

You might want to e-mail me at bujijar@ididitmyway.com

[Cady Goldfield]

And on whose kenjutsu waza are you basing your assumption? How many schools of traditional kenjutsu have you visited? How many teachers have you watched? Have you ever seen the work of Otake and his sons, of TSKSR? Have you seen Donn Draeger?

Before you make broad statements about an entire art and what its characteristics might be, you'd be wise to make a very deep and broad research of the subject you aim to critique, rather than make such uninformed assumptions.

[WillG]

We all learn one way or 'nother.

will graves

[ghp]

Cady took the bait!

Regards,
Guy

[Joseph Svinth]

A metaphor: In Tehran in 1978, there was a soccer tournament in which the embassy Marines played a variety of international teams. Although the Marines had never played soccer before, to the shock of the international community, they won. You know why? While the other folks were busy impressing the audience with their ability to play with their balls, the Marines just kept scoring goals.

A historical aside: The Japanese raided the Chinese coast at will from the mid-15th century until their voluntary isolation in the 17th. Part of the reason was that the Japanese had more firearms than all of Europe combined. Now, we all know what happens to people who persist in bringing knives to gunfights. So, the true question is why the Chinese, who invented firearms, persisted in bringing knives to gunfights until well into the nineteenth century? (A problem they no longer have, I hasten to add, as in 1976, when Madame Mao suggested reintroducing wushu into basic training, the old boys in the Army who remembered Korea said: "Amidst heavy gunfire, who would want to enjoy the dance posture of swordplay?")

And a question to Guy -- You think Bujijar is talking about who I think he's talking about? If so, he's a pretty good judge of swordsmanship.

[Cady Goldfield]

Originally posted by ghp
Cady took the bait!

Regards,
Guy

Yeah, I gots me a temper. :laugh:

[carl mcclafferty]

Cady:
Guess I better get out more. I couldn't think, who this gentleman was talking about either. Slow, easy to dodge HMMMM! I do a little training with Sifu Ue (Sic) (retired government wu shu teacher, who lives in Osaka), I don't think he would make that claim.

Carl

[Nathan Scott]

But when noticing kejutsu the sword cuts are to open and slow. Which is the same with all japanese sword fighting. It tends to be easly dodged and avoided. Get in a fight with a Chinese Kung Fu swordsman better watch out.

Damn, I knew I was fighting the wrong guys. Do you think it would help if I learned Japanese Kenjutsu under a Chinese teacher?

I have nothing bad about the japanese swords, or arts becuase I am currently training int he Bujinkan but it just seems that way.

Oh, I didn't know it was Chinese.

Are you in the Bujinkan that makes the hakama and sword bags, or the Bujinkan that "has nine traditions; six of which are actually Samurai arts, and three of which are the Ninja arts" (or a different Bujinkan)?

Just curious. :)

Anyway, thanks for the tip. I'll let my colleagues know as well - I guess we're just lucky we haven't gotten in fights with Chinese Kung Fu swordsman yet. Glad we didn't find out the hard way.

(James, we should let Kuroda Sensei in on this tip too. Maybe he can speed up his movements a bit more to compensate for the slowness.)

Regards,

[Kolschey]

Golly... Are there any particular styles of "Kung Fu Swordsmanship " you could recommend to show me the folly of Japanese Sword Arts? Any particular teachers that you feel are noteworthy? Please do share! Contact information would be greatly appreciated.

[carl mcclafferty]

Guy:
I'm afraid several of us took the bait, what the heck is a "Bu ji jar". Hope its not some play on "ji" as in "hemorrhoids".


Carl McClafferty

[bujijar]

When I said Chinese Kung Fu swordsman I just meant Kung Fu. And any ways I wasn't making fun or insulting yall, I was simply emphasizing a point,I just wanted to read what yall had to say about it. It's not nescessary to get mad. Oh yeah, Bujijar is nothing it is just a combonation of different words... just being creative if that's alright with you. Just Wushu styles of sword combat. I have no particular Sifu's. I'm on your side, I just had a question/comment...alright? Just erase that last sentence from your head that I wrote on the last post.

[Neil Yamamoto]

Lets see now.

A guy with a funny name comes in and irritates everyone with his behavior.

bujijar - any chance this is Jar Jar Binks cousin? Sounds like bujijar does for e-budo what Jar jar did for "Phantom Menace". Where's my light saber when I need it!

edited for spelling, not content.

[Kolschey]

By the way, Bujijar-jar, make sure you post your real name with your commentary. There is a signature function in the profile setup that will let you do that automatically.
May the Force be With You!

[bujijar]

Okay, I take it back... you can stop refering to me as the irritating person, and stop making fun of my name becuase it doesn't have any thing to do with hemaroids or any thing. ... Peace...? I have my question question and my comment counterd... I am happy now! So that means you can be happy aswell...right?

[bujijar]

I didn't say that to be a "Troll" I was just wondering what you had to say, because I respect all of yall's opinions becuase you know enought to post all the time. To be honeset I never really post, I just read yall's post all the time.

[Kolschey]

I believe you might have recieved better responses if you had phrased your commentary differently. Perhaps something to the effect of "I have been very impressed with the speed of some practitioners of Chinese Wushu Sword Arts. How would you say this compares to Japanese Swordsmanship?" might have communicated your question without the suggestion that Japanese sword arts were deficient in comparison.
By the way, do try to include a signature with every post.

[Nathan Scott]

I thought my response was pretty good, actually!

[bujijar]

I do not understand why you request that I put my full name on the post? I don't mean to be disrespectful to your rules and regulations but I don't feel too comforatble putting my full name on posts, especially when every one is a little irritaed by my presence and posts.





Steven

[bujijar]

And Mr.Scott I thought your replys were very clever and humerous. I think alot of yall got a good kick out of my first post.

[ghp]

Yo Bujijar!

I do not understand why you request that I put my full name on the post?

It's the rule. Abide or hide. We use our real names specifically so that we can be held accountable for what we write. Aliases encourage unthoughtful and spohmoric comments.

If you do not abide by the rule, be prepared to be locked out by the moderator.

[Nathan Scott]

Mr. Nichols,

I got news for you - we already have your full name. You posted it in your first post in this thread.

It is the policy of this forum that all members must post their full, real name in every post. This can be in the form of your user name, configured in your signature or hand written each time. But it is a policy that we all follow. It (usually) encourages more considered posts because of the implied accountability.

As far as the list-ka being upset with you, I'd guess that irritated might be more accurate. The way I see it there are two ways to avoid irritating other people (in general):

1) Consider your thoughts and wording before speaking or writing. Spelling and complete coherent sentences will win you big points too.

2) Make efforts to offer something of value and interest in the future.

Thanks for your cooperation,

[Ricehatman]

well, i think he asked a valid question. And yes, i believe he worded a tad(and i do mean tad) bit wrong, but he just asked a question that many of us wonder. So how would a japanese swordsman compare to a chinese swordsman? it's two very differant styles with a differant approach to the fight. And it would be interesting to hear what higher ups have to say and their opinions.





sang kim

[Devon Smith]

One more time, everyone....

http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/troll.html

[Sheridan]

I can't remember; how do you spell PJ Popie?

[BC]

OK. Then how about "who would win between Liberace and Truman Capote?" or "Prince and Boy George?" or "Frank Dux and Ashida Kim?" We'll give each of them a Japanese katana and a Chinese broadsword, respectively.
:smilejapa :karatekid

[BC]

Godzilla and the Stay Puff Marshmallow Man
the Smurfs and the Munchkins
the Sharks and the Jets
the Montegues and the Capulets
Curly and Shemp
Seigfried and Roy
John Belushi and Chris Farley
Chris Hunter and Ron Collins
Underdog and Hong Kong Phooey

Claymation, here we come!

[Ricehatman]

sorry i even bothered, and also, sho kosugi would kick the american ninja all over the place






sincerely
sang

[pgsmith]

Hi Mr. sang,
I will attempt to clarify the hostility that his post (and yours) were greeted with. To have someone that obviously has no true reference come on a forum and unequivocally state "what you guys do is useless" is not only rude, it is stupid. To ask the question "who would win between ..." is also indicative of someone without any experience. It is also an impossible to answer question because it depends entirely on who the duelists are. If you have curiosity about differences in styles, research the different styles thoroughly and then post questions to the experts here such as "Kung Fu style sword utilizes many more quick slices from a more erect posture as opposed to traditional koryu's deeper and less mobile stances and fiercer cuts. Why do you suppose that is?" Posing a question such as that would probably yield some interesting discussion on style differences and sword types. It would indicate that you have done your own research into the matter and aren't just wasting people's time with frivolous questions. I hope that clears up the attitude on the board some for you.

Cheers,

Neil,

You've got to stop channeling those cockroaches under your desk. That one you named Bar Bar Jinks is drinking that expensive single malt scotch in your desk drawer and crawling across the keyboard after hours. Sign off man, Sign off

:)

Tobs

[gmellis]

[Comes to found out what all the uproar is about. Opens door to find huge cloud of dust with fists and feet swinging about and the sound of naughty words like kaka-poopoo head. Grabs a lounger and popcorn]

[Ricehatman]

dear anyone who was offended by what i said,

i'm sorry, this is my first time on a forum and i have no knowledge of the mannerism nor rules of one, therefore, please excuse my inexperience. everyone makes mistakes. but through your harsh ridiculing comments, i will learn to word my questions better. thank you mr. pgsmith for answering my question. Next time i will word my questions better so that not so many people will jump at my throat. The question that i was trying to ask was "how does chinese swordsmanship compare to japanese swordsmanship?" i mean the obvious is there, but just wondering what the higher ups were thinking. once again, excuse my lack of experience.

sang kim

[Ricehatman]

Oh by the way..I would like to clarify a couple of things

1) i never said japanese swordsmanship was useless, cause if it was, i wouldn't be studying it.

2) i never said who would "win" i said "compare". 2 totally differant words with 2 totally differant meanings. Look it up if you don't believe me.

3) if someone new says something ignorant, you should show them the right way, not ridicule them for it. (thank you mr pgsmith)

sang kim

[bujijar]

Some one with some sense. It's not the end of the world! Not to be offensive or any thing but yall are too uptight about every thing!



Steven Nichols

[Kolschey]

Well thank you for your insight, Jar Jar. You are asking qustions in a forum with a number of people who have practicing for years in traditional sword arts. These are ladies and gentlemen who have made considerable sacrifices of time and energy in order to dedicate themeselves to learning and perfecting these traditions. Some of them have spent years in Japan as students. I would say that a certain amount of professional pride is to be expected.
Your commentary in the beginning of this thread was the equivalent of entering a forum for medical practitioners and saying " I hear that a lot of (fill in a chosen nationality here) surgeons have clumsy technique, and make mistakes compared to_______sugeons" Are you surprised that you got people's hackles up? Perhaps when you can show that you have dedicated a comparable level of study to the Japanese Sword arts, you will be better entitled to make potentially abrasive comments, though I would suspect that a person who has that level of experience would be inclined towards a more tactful approach. This is a forum where the practitioners are inclined towards scholarship and it's conventions as a basis for conversation. "Is X better than Y?" or "I hear that N stylists are too flowery" are never well recieved. Again, if you wish to discuss the merits of various systems, try phrasing your questions without an implied dualistic (A < B) emphasis.

[bujijar]

I respect your skill in these arts. And your welcome for my insight. But if you want me to understand a word that you say, I would suggest that you talk in a little more comphrehendanle fasion if that is okay with you.

[Gordon Smith]

OK, back in the saddle after a week in Scotland with the missus...

We've probably drifted enough on this topic, so let's move on. If I sifted enough out this the key things to remember for this thread subject seem to be:

1) There seem to be some stylistic differences between chinese and japanese swordfighting. This is tru of any style A or B, and even applies within nationalistic groupings.

2) It's pointless to try a direct A vs B analysis, as anyone can have a bad day. What we can do though(and if we want to, please start a new thread) is try to comment on the differences objectively.

Generally, I believe sword styles arise to best deal with local conditions. What works well on the mountain may not work at all on the beach or in the woods. Also, it is my experience that any style has certain "blind spots" within it (Hooboy, won't that get a response in another thread :) ). To wit, my days as a TKDist had me thinking I was pretty good, until I fought somebody who knew shotokan. They moved differently, they fought differently, and a lot of my standard tricks didn't do too well. This also applies to people who just know my art better than I do. It's all different sides of the same mountain.

Further discussions needs to be taken to new threads. Take five, have a drink, and let's keep up the exchange!

-G-