Peter Urban Lineage?

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1st November 2018, 16:29
jasperhowald

Peter Urban Lineage?

Hi everybody!

I've been trying to write up a notebook of my karate experiences to keep them for posterity and enhance both my own training and the training of anyone who I train with. My current dojo is a Goju Ryu school, which I'm glad I could find since I've been training in Goju for my whole life. However my original dojo followed Seikichi Toguchi's lineage (from what I remember, my notes from then weren't as thorough as now and I haven't been able to ask my old Sensei). My new dojo, on the other hand, follows the Peter Urban lineage, which I've been trying to do research on.

The problem is, I can't find a lot of resources that discuss Sensei Urban's instruction and lineage, apart from a few very clearly biased sources. I'd kind of like to have a better understanding of how Urban and his dojo got started. Here's what I have so far:

Quote:

Sensei Peter Urban was born on August 14^th, 1934, in Jersey City, NJ. After enlisting in the Navy, he was sent to Yokohama in Japan, and, while there, became the student of Richard Kim. Kim introduced Urban to Masutatsu Oyama and Gogen Yamaguchi, and Urban began training under Yamaguchi Sensei in 1954.
Sensei Urban would return to New Jersey to found American Gōjū Ryū, though he did this without the permission of Yamaguchi Sensei.

This is all that I have found that I can be sure is accurate, though I've heard a bit more from a few sources. I also am not entirely sure of Yamaguchi Gogen's study (and I hear there is some controversy as to whether he was a proper student of Chojun Miyagi Sensei, but that's not something that's particularly relevant to what I'm trying to write.

Can any one either point me in the direction of some information on Peter Urban's lineage and history, or if you have any personal histories I'd be glad to hear them as well. Thank you all in advance!
1st November 2018, 19:00
chunmonchek

I'm not sure you will ever get totally unbiased opinions.

That said...

As for USA Goju, you may want to start here http://martialforce.com/malanoski_interview.htm

Steve has a facebook page that you may want to investigate.

Another source is my teacher, who started in the Chinatown Dojo, but eventually trained under Thomas Boddie at the Uptown Dojo... until he began his training in the Shoreikan lineage. He was around when Urban broke from the Goju Kai, and when Boddie changed over to Shoreikan.

Also, I suggest that you try to find any students of of Joseph Lopez. He ran one of the largest USA Goju dojos in NYC. It was above J&R Music World.

If you don't mind me asking, who did you train Shoreikan under, and who do you train under now? You can message me if you like.
2nd November 2018, 11:37
DustyMars

Peter Urban studied a bastardized form of Goju ryu and not the original form. My mentor, friend and master of Goju ryu, Miyazato Eiichi, lived on Okianwa, http://www.glenridgemartialarts.com/...miyazato.shtml and was a direct linage from the originator, Miyagi sensei.
2nd November 2018, 12:52
jasperhowald

I've heard an account of Yamaguchi Gogen that says he only studied under Chojun Miyagi Sensei for two weeks, and have my own ideas about which of Miyagi Sensei's students are proper successors. However, as that relates to my current practice, I am still grateful to be studying under 3 accomplished Sensei, regardless of my personal opinions on their lineage. I am also still practicing what I learned from my home dojo, which has a lineage that I don't feel can be disputed in any case. Since I find myself in a dojo that comes from Peter Urban's teachings, I'd like to learn more about him whether or not I can consider his Goju to come from a reputable lineage, as it is still an effective budo (as it is being taught to me, that is).

Thank you for pointing me towards Miyazato Sensei! I'll be glad to look more into him to learn more about his study with Miyagi Sensei.
2nd November 2018, 13:30
DustyMars

Well, while I have no idea who you are or your age and where you learned karate on Okinawa; but those Peter Urban ads in “True Detective” are as phony as three dollar bills. For every so-called karate expert who mastered the art in two weeks I say this; bull shit. Nuff said.
2nd November 2018, 13:49
chunmonchek

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyMars

Peter Urban studied a bastardized form of Goju ryu and not the original form. My mentor, friend and master of Goju ryu, Miyazato Eiichi, lived on Okianwa, http://www.glenridgemartialarts.com/...miyazato.shtml and was a direct linage from the originator, Miyagi sensei.

Jeff,

While opinions of Urban vary, I don't believe that we can discount the fact that many Okinawa Goju practitioners in the United States trace their roots back to Urban, in one way or another...I know I did.

Jasper,

Yamaguchi did visit/attend class at the Meibukan on a number of occasions, although I can't really say how much training he did or what he learned.

Chris
2nd November 2018, 13:54
chunmonchek

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyMars

Well, while I have no idea who you are or your age and where you learned karate on Okinawa; but those Peter Urban ads in “True Detective” are as phony as three dollar bills. For every so-called karate expert who mastered the art in two weeks I say this; bull shit. Nuff said.

Jeff,

I'm not sure who you're addressing with the above post.

Chris
2nd November 2018, 14:46
jasperhowald

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyMars

Well, while I have no idea who you are or your age and where you learned karate on Okinawa; but those Peter Urban ads in “True Detective” are as phony as three dollar bills. For every so-called karate expert who mastered the art in two weeks I say this; bull shit. Nuff said.

Hi Jeff,

If you're addressing me with this (apologies if I interpret wrong) I am a relatively young student, though I have been studying for 16 years, the vast majority of my life. I haven't been lucky enough to study in Okinawa, though if I am able to I would be truly honored. So far I've only studied in Colorado and New York, and as part of trying to get a good and authentic training, I've been trying to research lineages for my dojos. As mentioned above, I have my own personal opinions on which of Miyagi Sensei's students can be properly said to be successors, but since I have yet to research as fully as I'd like to, I am open to other interpretations; the purpose of this research is to understand Goju as fully as I can, after all. Personally, I identify much more heavily with Seikichi Toguchi's lineage, since I spent over 14 years studying under a Renshi that traces his lineage directly back to Toguchi Sensei. However, it would be impolite of me to discount my current Hanshi's teachings solely based on who she studied under; whether her lineage is legitimate Goju doesn't impact whether I respect her budo knowledge as a whole, and I am always open to cross training in order to more fully understand the martial arts.

Nevertheless thank you for giving me direction. I'm always a student, and every piece of information is worth a lot! I also study Matayoshi Kobudo, another style that has perhaps less historical research than I would like: if you know of any prominent students I can researc on that end as well, I will be incredibly grateful!