On the difference between a reap (gari) and a sweep (barai)

The more I study the nage of judo, I feel like the more confused I get with regards to their names. My latest source of confusion arises from having performed and watched others perform ouchi gari and kouchi gari for several years now. And it has led me to this hypothesis:

- With a reap-type throw (gari), the weight is supposed to be *on* the foot that is reaped. Then, the foot is reaped out from underneath. This type of throw requires a good balance break and some strength to remove the weighted leg from underneath the opponent.

- With a sweep-type throw (barai), the weight is *about* to be placed on the foot in question, but then that foot is swept out from underneath at the last second. This type of throw requires almost no strength but perfect timing.

Okay, so that makes sense to me (and maybe it's obvious to most judoka, but it has only recently become clear to me ... assuming it's even correct). But then I notice that many judoka perform kouchi/ouchi gari as sweeps and not as reaps, ie, by sweeping the foot out just as their opponent is about to weight it. It seems like, in this case, the throw should be kouchi/ouchi barai (if there is such a thing!). Technically, should kouchi/ouchi gari be done as reaps, with the opponent's weight rooted on the foot about to be reaped, and hence the "sweep" versions are technically not kouchi or ouchi gari, but something else (kouchi/ouchi barai)?

Similarly for kosoto gari versus de ashi barai. Some claim that the difference is the direction of the sweep .... okay, so the direction is a little different (forward for kosoto gari, sidways for de ashi barai), but it seems like the main difference is that on kosoto gari the opponent's foot is rooted in place and has all their weight on it. Then, their balance is broken and the foot is reaped out from underneath. If, instead, you pull the opponent and make them step forward and then sweep their foot (whether forward or sideways) just as they are about to put their weight on it, it's de ashi barai.

Am I totally misunderstanding these throws? Or am I just looking too in-depth into the naming scheme and perhaps shouldn't take them so literally?

Any comments and elucidation would be greatly welcome. There are certainly those here with much more experience in judo's nage than I.

Is it that a Barai/Harai doesn't involve a change of direction like a Gari does ?

The 'reaps' seem to involve Tori's leg going one way, and then another (usually opposite) direction. The 'sweeps' seem to be flowing in one direction.

I thought that the difference between a Gari and a Gake was where Uke's weight was focused - on the leg being swept or not.

Look at it this way -- a throw such as ouchi gari is, to me, anyway, best utilized as a kind of reverse, or when you are coming out of a failed throw, such as uchi mata, or even seoinage. In those cases, you are purposely trying to fool uke into taking that step while your leg is still behind his or are fast enough to get it there. At the same time, you may catch uke napping. It is still a reap, however. In fact, that may be one of the only times it is rather than a hook. Pretty much the same thing with kouchi gari except that it is more likely to be a hook, or gake, if done at the same time one might employ the sneakier version.

In De ashi harai, the foot, in a perfect world, should be continued in the direction it IS all ready on, and a successful throw depends on the hands more than the sweep. It should not be going to the side, but tori must be to uke's side when he catches the foot. It doesn't always work like that for some, however.

I think it is perfectly fine to question the names of throws. You just may question yourself into improving. Do not forget when most of them were named, however. It has been a while. I'm a relative old-timer and today's judoka do not do it the way I used to. It isn't a best or worst, right name wrong name, it is in how you perfect the nuances that make the throw *your* throw.


Mark

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Originally Posted by PeteBoyes

I thought that the difference between a Gari and a Gake was where Uke's weight was focused - on the leg being swept or not.

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My understanding is that, in both gari and gake, the weight is on the foot that the tori is attacking. The difference is, with the gake you kind of wrap the uke's leg (and it's usually not as pretty) and sort of "muscle" them over by clinging to their leg with your leg, whereas with a gari you just take the uke's leg right out from underneath them with a nice clean reap. The gake usually seems to happen as the result of a failed gari. Of course, yoko gake is an exception to this rule, but otherwise, it seems like most gake follow this rule.

But I want to stay focused on barai and gari for now. Any other comments with regards to the difference between a gari-type and a barai-type throw?

Usually a gari/barai is done on uke's moving leg, uke's bodymass falls perpendicularly down with the shoulders landing where the feet were.

In a gake, the leg is pinned and uke's body mass moves through space, like a felled telegraph pole.

A gari/barai usually tends to be a much faster throw.

Geoff Moore.

I once heard that the distinction that the BJA (who are not the font of all knowledge) make between Osoto-gari and Osoto-gake is in the definition of the working leg. For Osoto-gari, the working leg is defined is the sweeping leg - Tori has already taken a step so that his feet are level with Uke's feet and it is the sweep that causes Uke to be thrown,. For Osoto-gake, the working leg is defined as the rear leg, Tori does not step through and his backleg remains braced. He then extends his other leg, plants it on the floor and drives Uke over the braced leg with no sweep.

Worth reading this link as well:

http://judoforum.com/index.php?showtopic=12321

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Originally Posted by jodirren

Similarly for kosoto gari versus de ashi barai. Some claim that the difference is the direction of the sweep .... okay, so the direction is a little different (forward for kosoto gari, sidways for de ashi barai), but it seems like the main difference is that on kosoto gari the opponent's foot is rooted in place and has all their weight on it. Then, their balance is broken and the foot is reaped out from underneath. If, instead, you pull the opponent and make them step forward and then sweep their foot (whether forward or sideways) just as they are about to put their weight on it, it's de ashi barai.

Am I totally misunderstanding these throws? Or am I just looking too in-depth into the naming scheme and perhaps shouldn't take them so literally?

Any comments and elucidation would be greatly welcome. There are certainly those here with much more experience in judo's nage than I.

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It is mostly accurate but not fully. In judo (ref. Kodokan Judo by Jigoro Kano) the foot sweeps (De Ashi Harai, and Okuri Ashi Harai) are from the outside sweeping in towards the other foot. So the point of contact is the outside edge of the foot. Reaps on the other hand take the foot/leg from the back (heel) towards the front (toe) so the point of contact is the calf on calf(O Soto Gari, and O Uchi Gari) or the foot on heel (Co Uchi Gari, Co Soto Gari). So even if you catch the foot before it is fully planted with a Co Uchi Gari or Co Soto Gari motion it is still Co Uchi or O Uchi.


Norman Menard
Kuma Judo