Tohei and Kisshomaru Ueshiba
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Originally Posted by aikidoc1
I know there was a rift with Tohei and nidai doshu on the teaching of ki and Tohei took his toys and went home so to speak.
Minoru Mochizuki told me that he got a call from Kisshomaru Ueshiba one night in the early 1970s. Kisshomaru was concerned because all the students wanted Tohei's name on their dan certificates and didn't care for Kisshomaru's name. Since he had inherited aikido from Morihei sensei, he was insulted by this.
Mochizuki sensei told him, "What do you do for your living?"
Kisshomaru told him, "I'm a stock broker."
Mochizuki sensei told him, "You have to decide if you're a stock broker or a budo man. A budo man is in the dojo. They want Tohei's name on their certificate because he's the one who teaches them. He's the one they see and know. If you want them to want your name on their certificates, you have to be in the dojo."
He said that Kisshomaru resigned as a stock broker soon after that and began spending all his time at the aikikai dojo. And he "nudged" Tohei out.
This wasn't just a thing of Tohei getting mad.
One of the worst things about aikido is how people try to discredit those with whom they are no longer associated. And it's a big reason there are so many "styles."
Full Splits and Partial Splits
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Goldsbury
My understanding is that Kisshomaru Ueshiba stopped working for Osaka Shoji in 1956. At least this is what he states in his own autobiography (p. 132).
Well, I don't know. That's just what sensei told me and he placed it in the early 70s, just before the big split between Tohei and Kisshomaru.
To me, the whole issue of splits and styles is misunderstood in the US.
Here, people argue and dislike each other over disputes, decades ago, between people they never met, over matters they don't understand.
You can see by many comments that some people dislike Shioda for "breaking away" from Ueshiba Morihei. Or Tohei for "taking his toys and leaving", when they don't know what really happened.
It seems people think that Ueshiba was always in one place and that all his students were in one place for many decades. But very few of the pre-war masters he trained actually stayed directly "with" him for a decade or more.
For instance, some people say that Mochizuki Sensei was uchi deshi to Ueshiba OSensei "for several years", but this is not the case. He apparently lived as uchi deshi to Ueshiba Morihei only for a matter of months before he became seriously ill. He started training in aikido in 1930, spent six months in the hospital and was living in Shizuoka running his own dojo when Ueshiba sensei came to him with the menkyo kaiden in 1932. With a full year for illness and recovery, he could only have been uchi deshi to Morihei Ueshiba for about one year. In his case, that was enough. He was a broadky experienced martial artist and he got the menkyo kaiden.
The fact is, teachers and students in pre-war Japan would often cross paths at various times and places and train together for hours, days or weeks. Various types of certificates would be awarded. This is clear from Ueshiba Morihei's training with Takeda Sokaku.
And so with Morihei Ueshiba and his students. Before the war, he moved around a good bit and many of his students were also moving around. One shows up just as another one leaves. It's unclear exactly how long each person was uchi deshi to OSensei, but they all had to leave the dojo eventually, if only for their own human lives. Their lives took them all over Japan and to other countries.
Shioda sensei, for instance, tells a harrowing story of his wartime experiences and Mochizuki sensei was in Mongolia for eight years.
It's only natural that they and many others should have developed their own schools. It shows that they were real human martial artists and not little black-belt clones. They didn't always get along with each other, but they all had some kind of relationship to Ueshiba Morihei and it's pointless for Americans to try to judge some stream of teaching, decades down from the origins, and fight amongst themselves because Ueshiba and Takeda had a money dispute or Tomiki "broke away" or Tohei "left in a huff."
I've seen and heard too much of that through the years. Men create arts and organizations are built to own the arts, and then they try to own the men. It doesn't work that way and no one should expect it to.
Yoseikan Budo in Shizuoka
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Originally Posted by Robert Cheshire
David:
You list Yoseikan Budo as your style of martial art. I was unaware there was a Yoseikan dojo in Birmingham, AL. Where do you trian and who do you trian with?
David Orange was training at the Yoseikan Hombu in Shizuoka when I was there in 1991. He had already been studying in Alabama in the art for many years and it was evident from his practise at that time. It seemed to me that his sword was one of the more advanced at the time in the dojo. He seemed to emphasize aikido and karate over judo skills but everybody at the dojo had to know more than a bit of each gendai budo style at that dojo at that time and each seemed to have a different mix.
Mike Fore was also from Alabama and training at the hombu at that time. I had heard he relocated to Florida.
Critical Mass in the Dojo
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Goldsbury
you really need to read Aikido Ichiro and make up your own mind. I have cited one page, but the whole of Chapter 2 (entitled Youran = Cradle) makes for interesting reading. The section entitled "Nisoku on waraji wo oweru" (pp. 153-154) recounts the circumstances of Kisshomaru's departure from Osaka Shoji, lists the positions he held during the seven years of his employment, and makes clear that this was the first and last time that he ever worked for a company. The idea that he really continued working for this company, and that the Aikikai was aware of the deception, does not really bear serious examination.
I don't intend to demean Kisshomaru sensei. Since I had never heard that he quit working, I just accepted what sensei said.
I wonder where I would find Aikido Ichiro here? Was it ever translated? I have done a good bit of translation over the years but I always labored it out with help. I was never a smooth, fluent reader. I'm fairly conversational.
When did you know Kisshomaru Doshu?
I only saw him from a few yards away once, at the yoseikan dojo's 60th anniversary and didn't actually meet him. He must have been interesting to hear.
Other people I would like to have known include Gozo Shioda, Koichi Tohei and Morihiro Saito.
Of course, top of the list (in aikido terms) would be Morihei Ueshiba, himself.
Since Mochizuki Minoru had been his uchi deshi, I really wanted to get to know him, but I learned that Mochizuki sensei was a deeply worthy person in his own right. It's a shame that the many very worthy personages of aikido don't blend better than they do.
Following behind a great master like Morihei Ueshiba, many strong people struggle to get closer to him and get a better sense of his abilities, get more favor and recognition from him and to become known as his close favorite among all those great people. It's human nature. Miyamoto Masao wrote a great book called "Straitjacket Society" concerning Japanese psychological development. He says that envy is actively encouraged and cultivated in Japanese society. I guess the martial arts carries a strong vein of that into the psychology of those who become deeply involved, even non-Japanese, living in other countries.
And so people get very jealous of one another. When I read Stanley Pranin's book, "Prewar Masters of Aikido," I was struck by how little the old uchi-deshi had to say about each other. I expected Minoru Mochizuki to have some great memories of training with Gozo Shioda. But he seemed a little vague on that, as if he had to search his memory for some young guy named Shioda.
He allowed that "Shioda-kun" had come along some years after he, himself, and wasn't really there that much...
And read "Prewar Masters," I noticed that each uchi-deshi or high level student would mention two or three others that he trained with and had some good things to say about them, but otherwise, they hardly mention the other great masters you would think they remembered so well.
I guess, in my amateurish way, that this was because they really all got on each other's nerves and didn't feel like giving each other any glory. You couldn't expect them all to continue year after year in the same dojo. Clearly, even to try to keep them in the same organization seems too much. Packed in too tightly, they reach a critical mass and blow apart.
What do you think about that?
When I said earlier that the Japanese thought their Japan-only arguments would never be examined internationally, I meant that they were used to having disputes and splitting for good. Each side would tell his version and no one from either side would ever hear (or seriously consider) the opposite version. Thanks to Stanley Pranin, we have learned a lot about martial arts and have been fortunate enough to see how deeply rooted they are in human nature.
Are you training now in Hiroshima? Atsui da na?
Best wishes,