Views of Sanchin Kata
 

Hello All,

I am just wondering and would like to hear how folks use and or view the kata sanchin.
My main point being that all to often, especially in Uechi schools it is something that seems to been done during class with little or no emphisis on really attempting to perform the kata.
The feeling I get is that folks feel it is something that should be done but lets get it out of the way so we can do more "fun" stuff during our class time....... sad but perhaps true.
Do folks do the classic 3 sanchins and move on or are more sanchins performed? Is proper and safe "checking" being performed? Do other Okinawan ryu-ha perform sanchin and what are the views and ideas on how to perform it and how many are performed per training session?

I look forward to the input......

Mark J Brelsford

We typically open every class with Sanchin kata, and it's importance is expressed repeatedly. More advanced students will sometimes (esp if I am running the class!) start the class with Sanchin 2-3 times, and/or sometimes while holding dumbells, and/or sometimes doing partner training (shime). Sanchin is _the_ single most important exercise in the Goju-ryu (and other) system.

I have found that many schools are no longer practicing it because of it's 'health dangers'. These people are a) not doing goju-ryu (or whatever) and b) were doing sanchin incorrectly to come to the conclusion that it is bad for you.

How any times have you seen someone (esp in N America) doing Sanchin and looking like they are going to pop! ;-) These people learned Sanchin incorrectly to begin with, which may have lead to health problems and "therefore Sanchin in bad for you". Argh!

Sanchin is _the_ fundamental training exercise of Goju-ryu, Uechi-ryu and (I believe) Isshin-ryu. If they are not doing Sanchin, then they are not doing Goju/Euchi/Isshin.

- Maku

Very Good points

I could not agree with you more. I find many that have indeed learned or do not fully understand the "how to" do a proper sanchin.

Again, I could not agree with you more!

Mark

Shime
 

I had an incident last April where I found the need to remind someone that shime testing is way to help someone improve beyond what they could do alone and the it is not a macho thing or a form of punishment.

Also had an embarassing moment last week. I was teaching formal Sanchin kata and blanked out on how it is supposed to be done. Our workout area is a small gym and we just work sanchin up and down the floor we don't do the turn until the front row is getting close to the wall. Then at some point when everybody is facing forward we called for marote yon nukite then we finish the kata. I hate it when I do stuff like that.

Used to start every class with junbi undo (warm ups), kihons (basics) then Sanchin, then close each class with Tensho. Somewhere we got out of the habit of having a set class format, We don't do sanchin every class anymore. To much to work on and not enough time to do it all in. But, tonight we will do Sanchin and it will be good.


Ed Boyd

Good points ED,


I found, over time, that as for "fitting" items into class I had to base it on the experience level of the class in general. Now I know many dojo's have a set routine if you will, even when I was on Okinawa Kanei Uechi never changed from a set standard for class.
As I got more advanced and trained with various Uechi teachers the "basics" if you will were put aside for one to do on his own. Perhaps not to hold others back from more advanced ideas in training. There was less group training and more one on one.
This I find especially holds true for the study of sanchin. To develope the essentials of power, speed and technique I feel sanchin is a must. With that said it must be properly presented with proper testing per each students level. All to often I see "teacher" doing poor if not dangerous sanchin testing.
One must bring the student to a level to enhance that persons ability. To push them to the edge if you will but ALWAYS on the side of safety for the person being tested. Let me know what ya think....

Mark

I believe that the teaching of Sanchin kata is quite important on a number of levels, and as I teach both Shotokan and Okinawan Goju Ryu I find that the four principles of float, sink, swallow and spit derived from Fukien boxing systems and found in Sanchin are applicable to the kata from both traditions.
For more experienced students I feel that the quality of the performance is infinitely more important thatn the quantity. One useful tool which really makes Sanchin challenging (at least for me) is a pair of Sandow's spring grip dumb-bells which were made circa 1905. Holding them closed while performing Sanchin really works the grip, lats, shoulders etc. and makes you focus on your breathing and kime. I think that the Sandow spring grip dumb-bells are now quite rare, but if you are lucky enough to find a pair try performing Sanchin with them - you will find that three repetitions are enough.
Yours,
Harry Cook

Hello Mr Cook,

I have never seen that type of weight. I have both stateside and overseas performed sanchin using a variety of weights. As you stated, it defenitly adds a new dimension to the performance.

Tell me have you seen Master Gushi's sanchin? What are your views on his performance?

I would be interested to hear more on you views of the four Fukien ideas.

Hope to hear from you soon.

Mark J Brelsford

Dear Mr. Brelsfor,
I, and four of my students, had the great pleasure of training with Gushi sensei in August 2,000 at the Suiho-En Japanese garden in California, where he both taught and demonstrated Sanchin kata, as well as other Uechi Ryu techniques and methods. I had some previous experience of the Uechi Ryu Sanchin as I learned it from my good friend Dr. Dave Scott in the mid 1970s (Dave trained in Okinawa for a number of years in the 1970s, and was the British Uechi Ryu Chief Instructor for some time). I thought Gushi sensei was terrific on all levels, a karateka's karateka, and if I get a chance I will definitely train with him again, and I'll drag as many of my members as I can along with me.
About the four principles. I wrote an article on "Sanchin The Essential Kata of Naha-te" which was published in Dragon Times Volume 13, which discusses the four concepts. If you cannot get a copy please let me know and I'll see if I can get a copy of the text to you.
Yours,
Harry Cook

Mr Cook,

Agreed! I think Sensei Gushi has much to offer!
I have known him for a number of years both stateside and when he lived in Okinawa. I last saw him about 2 yrs ago when he came up this way. It was good to see him again, although I have talked to him several times since. I really enjoyed the tapes that Tsunami production did on him and his methods of training especially the sanchin tape. A "MUST HAVE" for all serious practitioners!

I looked through my older Dragon times and sad to say I do not have your article......
I would be most interested in reading this, please let me know how I could obtain a copy of it!

Hope to Hear From you soon!

Mark J Brelsford

There are two relaxed ways of doing sanchin that I am aware of, one I know and do and one I have read about.

The one I have read about is a method of doing kata called yawarakasa , taught on Okinawa by Toyama Seiko Sensei, of Uechi Ryu Zankai, and I have some details on the theory but no actual practice of it as it is best done from an instructor.

Master Toyama's chief instructor there is an American, Seizan(Gordi Breyette) Sensei, who has been allowed to put some information on this style on Van Canna's Forum at www.uechiryu.com

The other is a soft method taught me by my teacher in Okinawan Kenpo, which I believe is also Okinawan in origin, but I don't know from what styler it derives. It has been suggested that it may be the Moto-Te sanchi from Motobu-Ryu.

Its use is for energy flow, and for foundational self defense principles, and it is the only way I ever do sanchin these days.

The soft, slow circling leg and arm movements do contsain the seed of all karate.With virtually nothing else in the way.

Though, it must be said, so do other more involved kata. Sanchin done this way's, vitrue is simplicity.

The Uechi Ryu Zankai methods include more levels that the first, actually three levels are taught. For that information however, I will refer you to Uechi Ryu Zankai if you don't already know of it.

Pretty nice people they are.Toyana Sensei appears phenomenal.
He is the last teaching student of Kanbun Uechi.Also worked with Kanei and many others for years developing the 'new' style, Uechi Ryu.But the Zankai is dedicated to teaching Kanbun's original style.Toyama Sensei says it is not better than others, but it is different in some ways.He does not widsh to be any cause of controversy either.

What little I post here is for informational purposes only and if I have made any mistakes, they are mine and mine alone.

Any authoritative statements about Toyama Sensei or his style of Uechi-Ryu must come from either him, or his authorized representatives.The above reflects merely my own very slight understanding.

Regards,

Dear Mr. Brelsfor,
you could contact David Chambers at Dragon Times to see if he has any back issues available. Also if you send me an e-mail with your address I will send you a copy of the article.
About Kusanku's comments on Toyama sensei. One of ther members of our association was in Okinawa in the summer training with Toyama sensei and Mr. Breyette. He was extremely impressed with both gentlemen and intends to go back as soon as he can to train some more. If time and money allow I might drag my poor old bones with him.
Yours,
Harry Cook

Hello again,

Thanks for the replys.

I am aware of Mr.Breyette as well as Toyama sensei. But for the record Master Tomoyose was also a student of Kanbun and is still very much alive!

I find the the Zankai views interesting to say the least, and have in the past had some very good talks with Gordi.

Mr Cook I would be interested in seeing your article, my address is as follows:
mjbrelsford@home.com
Thanks in advance for the article!

I would enjoy hearing more views from kusanku about your views on sanchin, especially the method you talked about rather interesting.

Hope you all have a great day!!!

Mark J Brelsford

Hello All,

I figure I would offer an Isshin-ryu perspective on Sanchin as taught to me
by my Sensei, AJ Advincula. He taught me Sanchin is a very important kata
for Isshin-ryu. The founder of Isshin-ryu, Tatsuo Shimabuku (1908-1975) said
that Shorin's Niahanchi was the mother, Goju's Sanchin was the father,
and Isshin was the baby.

Sanchin is the 8th and last empty hand kata taught. It is done in two ways,
with tension and with speed. Tension is the primary focus. This is done for
health and for the cultivation of Chinkuchi. Sanchin is prolonged Chinkuchi.

I noticed some comments on improper testing of Sanchin. The way Isshin
does it's checking is by testing the muscles that should be tight by lightly
touching with the finger tips and slowly building to heavier contact. The
stance is tested by using a cupped hand and making sure it cannot hit
the groin, with experienced practitioners kicks can be done. Does this sound
improper?

Shimabuku and Uechi were good friends. My Sensei showed a comparison of
Uechi's Sanchin and Isshin's (he likes to do this with all kata), there are some differences.
Uechi's Shoulders are low, Isshin's are back, Uechi's thumb position is different from Isshin's,
Uechi holds their thumbs on the inside of their hand and Isshin has their thumbs to the
side. Uechi uses all open hand and Isshin uses both closed and open. Uechi
goes in different directions and Isshin goes forward and back. I was also taught
Uechi's Sanchin is closer to the original (or the way it was done in China).
Mr. Brelsfor, I believe you wrote you are Uechi (correct?) do these comparisons
of Uechi sound like the way you do it?

Sensei also does Hindiandi Gung-fu, they teach a Sanchin, one hand open one closed,
all directions spontaneous. I cant go into this, I've wrote enough, but I cant help it
this is a really good topic.

Joey Paden
Maryland Isshin-kai

HARRY COOK'S ARTICLE ON DRAGON TIMES
 

YAMANTAKA : Dear Mr. Cook,

Could I take advantage of your good will and ask if you could send me also that article? My address is :
Ubaldo Alcantara
Rua das Esperas, 30 - Pituba
41810-090 - Salvador (BA)
BRAZIL.
And could you, please, allow me to translate your article and place it at my website
http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/aik...gua_portuguesa
(Aikido in Portuguese Language - Discussion List and Information Centre) ?
You may send it also as an attachment to a message.
Excuse my abuse :o
Best

Hello again All,

Good comparison between the Uechi and Isshin Sanchin. Lots of good info to think about. Again, Mr Cook thanks for the article.

Good point on the checking of sanchin, Master Kanei Uechi did most of his checking in that manner.

Keep the ideas coming

Mark