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Thread: "Aunkai" / Akuzawa Minoru (Jin)

  1. #166
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    Default bump...

    Quote Originally Posted by chrismoses
    Saw these a while back when his student was pushing him as the greatest thing since sliced (crustless of course) bread. Honestly, not that impressed, if you've ever been thrown around by Don Angier or his guys, you'll see nothing new here. It's not that it's bad, but it's not exactly groundbreaking...
    So I just got back from a trip to Japan and Ark allowed me and a training partner of mine to work into one of his classes. Huge thanks to him, Rob, Adam and the rest of his guys. So having actually had a few hours of face time and more importantly hands ON time, I thought I should follow up on this post. The short version is that I'm currently soaking my feet in a lovely wasabi-soy concoction that should make having my feet in my mouth a much more plesant experience. Ark probably is about the best thing since crustless sliced bread, and (to me at least) it most certainly felt groundbreaking. But beyond Ark's own very considerable skill, I was equally impressed with the very high level of skill of his students that had been with him for a couple years. It was clear that not only was he able to do some amazing stuff, but that he had a system for building these same internal skills in others. Further, he's able to do so in a relatively short period of time. Rob's been training with Ark for about three years (if I remember correctly) and easily had better body skills than nearly anyone I have dealt with in Aikido in the US, that list would include some 6th-8th dans who are serious mucky mucks in the seminar circuit. What they're doing is not very similar to what I've seen of Don Angier's Yanagi Ryu, but felt a bit more like what Systema might be one day. I generally call it like I see it, but when I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it, and I was certainly wrong on this one. Again, huge thanks to Rob for coordinating our visit and Ark for having us. My only regret is the sleep I lost that night trying desparately to wrap my head around some of the things that were done in class.
    Christian Moses
    **Certified Slimy, Moronic, Deranged and Demented Soul by Saigo-ha Daito Ryu!**
    Student of:
    Shinto Ryu Iai-Battojutsu
    Tuesday Night Bad Budo Club (TM)

  2. #167
    Mark Murray Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrismoses
    So I just got back from a trip to Japan and Ark allowed me and a training partner of mine to work into one of his classes. Huge thanks to him, Rob, Adam and the rest of his guys. So having actually had a few hours of face time and more importantly hands ON time, I thought I should follow up on this post. The short version is that I'm currently soaking my feet in a lovely wasabi-soy concoction that should make having my feet in my mouth a much more plesant experience. Ark probably is about the best thing since crustless sliced bread, and (to me at least) it most certainly felt groundbreaking. But beyond Ark's own very considerable skill, I was equally impressed with the very high level of skill of his students that had been with him for a couple years. It was clear that not only was he able to do some amazing stuff, but that he had a system for building these same internal skills in others. Further, he's able to do so in a relatively short period of time. Rob's been training with Ark for about three years (if I remember correctly) and easily had better body skills than nearly anyone I have dealt with in Aikido in the US, that list would include some 6th-8th dans who are serious mucky mucks in the seminar circuit. What they're doing is not very similar to what I've seen of Don Angier's Yanagi Ryu, but felt a bit more like what Systema might be one day. I generally call it like I see it, but when I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it, and I was certainly wrong on this one. Again, huge thanks to Rob for coordinating our visit and Ark for having us. My only regret is the sleep I lost that night trying desparately to wrap my head around some of the things that were done in class.
    Thanks for the post! Can you describe anything in more detail? Some of us are really interested to hear about your experiences.

    Thanks,
    Mark

  3. #168
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    Nice post Chris...details! Details!

    Way to man up.

    Best,
    Ron

  4. #169
    Mark Murray Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathan Scott
    Well, cooperative uke's are a problem in all areas of aikido, IMO. Let me ask you this - what is the purpose of kokyu dosa? To improve tanden usage, hip usage, etc? Of the small technical curriculum of aikido, why were techniques like kokyu dosa and tenchinage included? I don't mean to sound so cryptic, but I'm not comfortable with explaining my point of view on techniques. I'd simply suggest that little to no benefit is being gained from the way techiques such as these are currently be practiced (in general).

    Regards,
    Hello Nathan,
    I was rereading this thread again and wondered if you'd elaborate on kokyu dosa? What it was designed for, what way should it be practiced? Anything would help.

    Thanks,
    Mark

  5. #170
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    Pre-exposure:

    Quote Originally Posted by chrismoses
    Honestly, not that impressed [...] It's not that it's bad, but it's not exactly groundbreaking...
    Post-exposure:

    Quote Originally Posted by chrismoses
    Ark probably is about the best thing since crustless sliced bread, and (to me at least) it most certainly felt groundbreaking.
    Thank you for being open, Chris. I'm glad that you (i.e. someone with experience) comes away impressed that much. I put a fledgling Aikido career on hold indefinitely after Rob was very kind enough to show me how to get started on Akuzawa's stuff. As for Rob, I would love to see where he gets in ten years.
    Tom Holz

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Tisdale
    Nice post Chris...details! Details!

    Way to man up.

    Best,
    Ron
    I'm not really sure where to start. We trained with him on a Wednesday, which is more Chinese arts oriented. I have very limited experience with CMA, so it was right into the deep end. We spent a lot of time working on excercises to develop 'the cross' that Rob's always talking about. I was sweating like a pig in no time and found it hugely difficult to do the exercises correctly. Rob has written about some of the exercises elsewhere. Later we did some partner drills. Something that was immediately obvious was that Rob and the others were nearly as stable along their 'weak' line (third point, triangulation...) as they were along their strong line. You could push Rob from the front as hard as you wanted and he wouldn't move, all this while he was standing straight legged and straight armed. I have no idea how this works. Ark could go from feeling like you were pushing on a brick wall to boxing a sheet of silk seemingly at will. When we were screwing around post beers on the train back to Tokyo, Rob kicked my buddy Jeremy in the leg relatively gently and the shockwave went straight through to his spine. His eyes bugged out and both of his shoulders came up almost like a spasm. At the tasty beer-n-snacks place we hit after class Ark showed me a version of kokyu-ho. He had me grab him by the his pointer fingers and then let me push his arms back behind his back. "Too easy" he said, then lifted both feet off of the ground. So now I'm planted on a chair in front of him, both feet on the ground dropping my weight forward and he's balanced on his butt cheeks with his arms behind his back and he's dancing his feet back and forth in the air just to show that they aren't connected to anything. Then all of a sudden he just pulsed me up and backwards hard enough that I came up out of the chair, almost knocking it over when I came back down into it. I felt only the slightest change of pressure during the event.

    There was a lot more, but that should give you an idea of what I'm talking about.
    Christian Moses
    **Certified Slimy, Moronic, Deranged and Demented Soul by Saigo-ha Daito Ryu!**
    Student of:
    Shinto Ryu Iai-Battojutsu
    Tuesday Night Bad Budo Club (TM)

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrismoses
    What they're doing is not very similar to what I've seen of Don Angier's Yanagi Ryu,......
    Chris,
    First, thanks for the review. Frankly when I saw the clips the first time I also compared to my own frame of reference and was not overly impressed. However, after reading some of Rob's posts on another forum and then watching the film again I realized that what I thought I was seeing was not what he was doing. It became clear to me Ark was using a different operating system. Hopefully someone will invite Ark over for a seminar as I would very much like to attend and get some hands on experience. Thanks again for your honest follow up.

    Take care,

    Mark J.

  8. #173
    Mark Murray Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrismoses
    I'm not really sure where to start. We trained with him on a Wednesday, which is more Chinese arts oriented. I have very limited experience with CMA, so it was right into the deep end. We spent a lot of time working on excercises to develop 'the cross' that Rob's always talking about. I was sweating like a pig in no time and found it hugely difficult to do the exercises correctly. Rob has written about some of the exercises elsewhere. Later we did some partner drills. Something that was immediately obvious was that Rob and the others were nearly as stable along their 'weak' line (third point, triangulation...) as they were along their strong line. You could push Rob from the front as hard as you wanted and he wouldn't move, all this while he was standing straight legged and straight armed. I have no idea how this works. Ark could go from feeling like you were pushing on a brick wall to boxing a sheet of silk seemingly at will. When we were screwing around post beers on the train back to Tokyo, Rob kicked my buddy Jeremy in the leg relatively gently and the shockwave went straight through to his spine. His eyes bugged out and both of his shoulders came up almost like a spasm. At the tasty beer-n-snacks place we hit after class Ark showed me a version of kokyu-ho. He had me grab him by the his pointer fingers and then let me push his arms back behind his back. "Too easy" he said, then lifted both feet off of the ground. So now I'm planted on a chair in front of him, both feet on the ground dropping my weight forward and he's balanced on his butt cheeks with his arms behind his back and he's dancing his feet back and forth in the air just to show that they aren't connected to anything. Then all of a sudden he just pulsed me up and backwards hard enough that I came up out of the chair, almost knocking it over when I came back down into it. I felt only the slightest change of pressure during the event.

    There was a lot more, but that should give you an idea of what I'm talking about.
    Wow,
    Some of that sounds like what I experienced when I met Dan Harden. And I can really understand that relaxed kick that goes right to the bone. If you want to read the thread, it's here:
    http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showth...8&page=1&pp=25

    I hope Rob or Akuzawa are able to make it over here one of these days.

    Mark

  9. #174
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    Nice posts Chris. Look forward to hearing more.
    Tom Wharton
    Kodokan Aikido, puttin' the harm in harmony

  10. #175
    Dan Harden Guest

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    Good on ya Chris.
    I hope that Ark and Rob got you started on Solo work. If......you do it, your body will change. It will happen. You won't be the same guy in a year.
    Did you get to feel the push out exercises? Could ya lift your feet?

    Congrats
    Dan

  11. #176
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    Chris,
    It takes a big man to admit when he was wrong. Thanks for your report. I am headed to Tokyo myself in the spring to check things out.
    Tim Fong

  12. #177
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    Not to echo Chris too much...but Wow!!!

    Thanks to Ark, Rob, Adam and the other guys for being so welcoming, fun and challenging.

    I was blown away by the power Rob and Ark could generate with knees locked and arms straight out. At one point Ark pushed me back and then walked through em like I was not even there. I struggle even to desribe the feeling without going into goofy soundbites. I could not put my hands on Ark and ground in any way that could stop or impact his movement.

    At one point Ark put me (5'10, 245) on his back piggy back style and did slow motion sumo stomps. I could feel that it was more about body stability than sheer strength. Amazing.

    I'll second Chris when he says that everyone "was nearly as stable along their 'weak' line (third point, triangulation...)"

    I bounced off most folks there when trying to apply what I knew.

    The exercises were tough and clearly meant to build specific body structure as well as power and the ability to transmit power.

    I'll spend a long time thinking things over in my head.

    Best

    Jeremy
    Jeremy Hulley
    Shinto Ryu Iai Batto Jutsu
    TNBBC

  13. #178
    Dan Harden Guest

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    So Jeremy
    Tell me. Now that you felt that kind of power. How does it differ from say....what you have felt in the past?
    Where can you see it be useful?
    When you touched his hands- in the push out exercise where he could walk right through you-you felt the ground or center in his hand. How do you suppose this relates to other things you have read about in the past?

    Cheers
    Dan

  14. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Harden
    So Jeremy
    Tell me. Now that you felt that kind of power. How does it differ from say....what you have felt in the past?
    Where can you see it be useful?
    When you touched his hands- in the push out exercise where he could walk right through you-you felt the ground or center in his hand. How do you suppose this relates to other things you have read about in the past?

    Cheers
    Dan
    I'm not Jeremy but...

    I'd have to say that until I could replicate it more, I couldn't intelligently talk about what was different. It would be useful in just about everything you did however, that much was obvious. I don't know what I felt through his or Rob's hands, I just didn't get the feedback that I was used to, and many of the exercises were set up so that the structural advantages I was used to were not available if you were going to try and do the exercises correctly. The power generation and stability seemed to come from the center instead of being tranferred up from the legs. Like I said, I don't know how that worked. One thing was clear though, that it was unlike anyone I'd felt in Aiki circles, I assume that's the Chinese influence.
    Christian Moses
    **Certified Slimy, Moronic, Deranged and Demented Soul by Saigo-ha Daito Ryu!**
    Student of:
    Shinto Ryu Iai-Battojutsu
    Tuesday Night Bad Budo Club (TM)

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrismoses
    I'd have to say that until I could replicate it more, I couldn't intelligently talk about what was different. It would be useful in just about everything you did however, that much was obvious. I don't know what I felt through his or Rob's hands, I just didn't get the feedback that I was used to, and many of the exercises were set up so that the structural advantages I was used to were not available if you were going to try and do the exercises correctly. The power generation and stability seemed to come from the center instead of being tranferred up from the legs. Like I said, I don't know how that worked. One thing was clear though, that it was unlike anyone I'd felt in Aiki circles, I assume that's the Chinese influence.
    Hey guys

    Jeeez, I like poke my head into this long dead thread, and all of a sudden its fired up again

    Anyways, it was great having you both. Hope you get a chance to drop by again sometime, though I'm sure we'll get to meet up in Seattle soon enough.

    Thought I'd drop a couple of comments about your above quote though.
    Part of it is the "center", but it still needs to come from the feet. I can tell you in the pushout exercise when it starts to click you'll definitely feel pressure in the feet. You don't generate "power" from the center so much as let the incoming force pass "through" you and those areas. That's where Ark mentioned that you have to know which parts to keep in proper tension, and which parts to relax. The "cross" is an important part to study only cuz so many people neglect it.
    Once you understand how to stabilize the cross, then you tie that in with the lower center or "tanden" area, which also comprises the koshi, and then eventually tie in the legs to that as well.
    And when you release the power back to your partner you send it from "elbow on out"

    Just some extra stuff for you guys to lose more sleep over
    ------------------------
    Robert John

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