Kotodama

[INFINOO]

This subject/concept of Kotodama has always interested me. Is the Kotodama taught in your do-jo, if so how. Is it really a way of reinforcing breathing/tech or is it the mystical seed sound of the universe.

Gregory Rogalsky
Rogalsky Combatives International
Calgary, Alberta, Canada

[Yamantaka]

Originally posted by INFINOO
This subject/concept of Kotodama has always interested me. Is the Kotodama taught in your do-jo, if so how. Is it really a way of reinforcing breathing/tech or is it the mystical seed sound of the universe.
Gregory Rogalsky
Rogalsky Combatives International
Calgary, Alberta, Canada

YAMANTAKA : Dear Gregory,

It depends on your beliefs. If you believe, as a christian, in the power of praying, it's because of your beliefs. The same thing applies to Ki.
I'd say that singing has always been associated with warriors, to increase confidence and to instill martial feelings. The New Era people also use music (sounds) to reach a peaceful state.
So, you may look for "SPIRITUAL FOUNDATIONS OF AIKIDO", by my friend, WILLIAM GLEASON Sensei (you may ordem it from Amazon.Com or BN. Com). JOHN STEVENS Sensei has also an audio tape with Kotodama chants, very good (but with almost no explanations). His book "THE SECRETS OF AIKIDO", also touches on Kotodama (again available from Amazon or BN). And there are the Kotodama books by Nakazono Sensei (if you want, I may look for the address).
By the way, Peter Goldsbury Sensei believes Kotodama is specific of the japanese language and cannot be used in other languages. John Stevens thinks otherwise.
It's like religion : either you have one or you don't. O-Sensei had a religion (Omoto Kyo) and believed in the power of sounds (Remember the walls of Jericho in the Bible? It seems this idea is very much common in all places...)
Best

[Ian McDonald]

I, too, have long been interested in the kotodama and feel that since it was important to O-sensei, that we should try to understand it a bit. It is a very esoteric subject and derives (need some history here professors) from ancient practices, probably India. It starts with the simple premise that, "in the beginning, there was the Word." "U" or "SU" or "AUM" or some such is the basic sound that generated the entire Universe and all phenomena exist bacause of the various vibrations, etc., etc. This is in fact, not so much different from our current understanding of the Universe derived from scientific research such as physics, mathematics and astromomy. We can say simplistically, that all things are vibrations.

That being said, the theories of kotodama are complex but are probably not linked to a specific language. I think that you can chant in any language you want and get the same results, provided that the sounds you used were the appropriate ones. There may be theories about how to combine sounds, how to heal with sound, kill, catch fish, who knows.

The bottom line is that it is a fascinating area for further study, however, much scepticism must be exercised. There are no legitimate Aikido dojos that I know of that teach kotodama. O-sensei talked a lot about specific sounds as related to techniques (from what I have gathered from conversations with some shihans)but he did not teach kotodama. Anyone who says that they are teaching O-sensei's kotodama is BS'ing.

I do not know where you could get legitimate instruction, but I do know a couple of folks that you should stay away from. I think that if you are curious, the little bit of written information cited above will be a good starting point. Then just sit in seiza and make sounds for a few years. In answer to one of your questions, the kotodama deals with the fundamental mystery of the Universe. I think O-sensei would have said the the kotodama was manifested in a technique, not that sounds would aid breathing or make the technique work better. If you have faith and train correctly, perhaps the kami will favor you as they did O-sensei. I mean that sincerely, not in jest. Good luck.

[RDeppe]

Here is a pretty cool posting on Aikido-L from 1995: http://www.uni-ulm.de/~s_tgantn/aiki.../kotodama.html

It claims that Ueshiba is somewhat important in keeping the concept alive in the 20th century and that he changed the sounds.

[INFINOO]

Thanks to all for the responses. It just shows what a valuble resourse E-Budo can be. Thanks to all for the resourse material. In my own experince, I do feel there is a connection between movement and sound. Im not sure how or if religios beliefs enter into the equation. Perhaps its a breathing thing, a confidence thing or maby the sound unsettles the attacker. In my my own training and teaching I approach the Kotodama as "verbal reinforcement". So far a "WUMP" here and a "BAP" there and a little "HEE", "HOO" seems to go along way. We have a saying "if it looks or sounds stupid, but it works , its not stupid. Thanks again.
Gregory Rogalsky
Rogalsky Combatives International
Calgary, Alberta, Canada

[Yamantaka]

Originally posted by Ian McDonald
The bottom line is that it is a fascinating area for further study, however, much scepticism must be exercised. There are no legitimate Aikido dojos that I know of that teach kotodama. O-sensei talked a lot about specific sounds as related to techniques (from what I have gathered from conversations with some shihans)but he did not teach kotodama. Anyone who says that they are teaching O-sensei's kotodama is BS'ing.

YAMANTAKA : In Shindai, Japan, JOHN STEVENS Sensei teaches not just Aikido but Kotodama, as well. He also believes (as I do) that Kotodama may be based on any language. He's a legitimate (whatever that is...) Aikikai Hombu Dojo instructor. Peter Goldsbury, on the other side, explains at length why, in his opinion, Kotodama can be expressed only in Japanese.
O-Sensei didn't teach anything at all, in the way we, in the West, understand it. He just did some things (either Aikido, Misogi or Kotodama) and left everyone to try to understand it.

Originally posted by Ian McDonald
In answer to one of your questions, the kotodama deals with the fundamental mystery of the Universe. I think O-sensei would have said the the kotodama was manifested in a technique, not that sounds would aid breathing or make the technique work better. If you have faith and train correctly, perhaps the kami will favor you as they did O-sensei. I mean that sincerely, not in jest. Good luck.

YAMANTAKA : And that's the main problem. Kotodama is very deep in religious thought. And religious thought, by itself, can not be discussed. It thrives on faith and faith do not depends on rational thought. Of course, sound has many effects, including psychological ones, but that's science, not religion. "Fundamental Mystery of the Universe", "if you have faith...", "the Kami will favour you, as they did O-Sensei"...All that is religion, faith, mysticism and I can, honestly, discuss that.
In Budo

[L-Fitzgerald]

Just thought I'd share some notes about its origins.

"At the age of 8, Uyeshiba Morihei began studying Shingon Buddhism under the direction of a local priest. Shingon Buddhism, or "True Word" was first introduced into Japan by Kukai [A.D. 774﷓835], and Shingon Buddhism implies: “the idea of knowledge within knowledge.” This religion is an offshoot of Mahayana Buddhism and part of its practise incorporate Tibetan or Tantric intonations in the belief that the use of magical spells permit mystic union with the deities.

These Tibetan practices are believed to have originated in prehistoric times, and as a result Shingon Buddhism contains a meditative exercise called kuji goshin ho. This exercise finds specific words being chanted while the fingers of both hands are manipulated into various postures and is used as a mnemonic method for embodying “ki” [natural energy] within the body. In ancient Japan this particular exercise was originally used by the Samurai to annihilate evil demons while guarding against other dangers or unseen perils. Shingon Buddhism and its traditions made a strong impression on Uyeshiba, and although his Shingon Instructor focused teaching the young Uyeshiba Chinese Confucian classics, Uyeshiba was more fascinated with the esoteric aspects the mystical rites of kuji goshin ho. It interesting to note that the concepts of kuji goshin ho are also the source for the practice of kuji kiri, a ritual practiced by Ninjitsu adherents in the belief that it gives them complete power over their enemies.

Shingon Buddhism, with its mystical rites combined with philosophies found within the Shinto sect of Omoto kyo would later play a major role in shaping Uyeshba’s own philosophies as he finalized his teachings in the art of Aikido. Perhaps Uyeshiba’s philosophies were also influenced by the xenophobic frenzy that existed within Japan since before the beginning of the Meiji Restoration. This is evident upon recognizing that he espoused belief in the concepts of Kotodama [also called “Kototama -the spirit or soul of a language”] wherein a “gaijin” could never truly understand or grasp the essence of what is being said [or taught?} since they are “Gaijin,” and not “Nihon [Japanese].”

L Fitzgerald

[Nathan Scott]

L,

I've never heard of "kuji goshin ho", but the kuji-in and kuji kiri methods that you are referring to are not ninja methods, they are methods adopted/developed by the esoteric branches of Buddhism Shingon and Mikkyo. There are still some classical ryu-ha that preserve these methods. It might have been used by some ninja somewhere at sometime, but they are not ninja methods.

[L-Fitzgerald]

NS

This is what is in my notes:

Kuji goshin-ho:

An ancient mind study that was part of the secret teachings of the Shingon sect of Buddhism. The Kuji contained the following words that were chanted while the fingers of both hands were manipulated into various postures and are collectively known as Kuji kiri.

Some of these same terms are used in the art of Shinobi [espionage, more popularly known as Ninjutsu]. The Chinese ideogram for Shinobi and Ninjitsu are one and the same, and in Japanese it is pronounced Shinobi and in Chinese pronounced Ninjitsu.

The finger movements were derived from Tibetan Lama chanting practices and used to aid an individual towards attaining enlightenment. Believed to have originated in prehistoric times today the hand movements are now used by students as a mnemonic method of embodying “ki” [natural energy] within the body.

Rin - both hands are closed and then the index fingers were released and stretched out against each other. The fingers were brought close to the chest with the word Rin being repeated three times. The hands would then be raised above the head and then separated.

Hei - fold the small [pinky] and ring fingers while stretching the middle fingers against each other. The index fingers are positioned underneath the middle fingers, the word Hei was repeated three times and then the fingers are separated.

To - The open hands are brought together until fingers tips of each hand touch each other and the word To is repeated three times.

Sha - The open hands are brought together so that the finger tips touch closely upon each other, and the word Sha is repeated three times.

Kai - Tightly intertwine and fold the fingers of both hands over the back of the palms but, leave the index fingers extended and touching each other, repeat the word Kai three times.

Jin - Tightly intertwine and fold the fingers of both hands inward well within the palms and repeat the word Jin three times.

Retsu - Close the left hand with the palm turned toward the right. Releasing the index finger point it up while placing the thumb over the lower joint of the middle finger and bring the hand to the sternum. Grip the tip of the left index finder with the right hand and repeat the word Retsu three times

Zai - Stretch the fingers of both hands out, connect the tips of the index fingers and thumbs to form an arrow point. Bring the hands close to the face and repeat the word Zai three times

Zen - Close the left hand with the palm facing upwards, bring it close to the sternum and cover it with the right palm while holding the fingers extended. Repeat the word Zen three times.

After having completed these exercises in rapid succession the fingers are then intertwined, lifted above the head and the word Wo is repeated three time and the hands are released. This exercise was believed to annihilate evil demons while guarding the Samurai against danger or other unseen perils.

Kuji kiri:

Considered as various levels of power, these are the foundation of Shinobi [espionage, more commonly known as the art of Ninjitsu], and were achieved by knitting the fingers into various positions as a single, rhythmic set of movements flowing from the first to last position in conjunction with breath control. The finger movements are derived from Tibetan Lama chanting practices and were used to aid an individual towards attaining enlightenment. Believed to have originated in prehistoric times today the hand movements are now used by modern day students as a mnemonic method of embodying “ki” [natural energy] within the body. Listed below is the definition of each term.

Rin - Strength of mind and body, known as Chu in Chinese.

Kyo - Direction of energy, known as Shen in Chinese

Toh - Harmony with the universe, called Tai in Chinese.

Sha - Healing of self and others, also called Sha in Chinese

Jin - Knowing the thoughts of others, called Jen in Chinese

Retsu - Mastery of time and space, in Chinese this is called Tung

Zai - Control of the Five elements of nature, Air, Fire, Earth, Water
and Wood, in Chinese this is called Hua

Zen - Enlightenment, in Chinese this is called Tao

Hope this helps! And if anyone else can add more please do.

L Fitzgerald

[L-Fitzgerald]

NS

Thought I'd share the following as well:

Aiki [no Jutsu - Budo Heketsu]:

“The Techniques of Aiki - The Secret of Budo” this is the title of the oldest book [published in 1899] that discussed the concepts of aiki. During the Meiji Era many writers and scholars greatly inflated the ideas of ki, ki-ai and aiki, and in this particular work one finds the following statement; “The most profound and mysterious art in the world is the art of Aiki. This is the secret principle of all the martial arts in Japan. One who masters it can be an unparalleled martial genius.” To some a later work entitled Jujutsu Kyoju-sho Ryu no Maki, published in 1913 furthers provides what is considered to be the finest definition of this concept: “Aiki is an impassive state of mind without a blind side, slackness, evil intentions or fear. There is no difference between aiki and ki-ai; however if compared, when expressed dynamically aiki is called ki-ai, and when expressed statically, it is aiki.”

Western Martial Artists identify Ki with the mind, but oriental concepts identify Ki as being the link that exists between an individual and nature. With time Ki came to be viewed as the universal cosmic energy that pervades all living things and is the prime force behind the visible order of nature. However, these definitions should not be viewed as proof of Ki being a mystical force that can be harnessed as will. With regard to the concept of Ki-ai being the opposite of Aiki, Ki-ai is neither a synonym nor antonym of Aiki because the Japanese Kanji ideogram used for writing the one bears no relationship whatsoever to the other.

However, this view will always be in dispute because when the Hepburn system of Romaji is used [sp?] the English syllables become reversed in their pronunciation. Later when Karate was introduced into Japan its proponents also adapted the concepts of Aiki into their teachings as well.

As always open to input from others with more data!

L Fitzgerald

[L-Fitzgerald]

Copied this from the discussion regarding Aikido's link to Ninjitsu that was posted by Mr Peters:

Extracted directly from the webpage:
http://www.shinjin.co.jp/kuki/hyoho/impact3_e.htm



quote:


"TAKEMUSU AIKIDO

"A Study of Kuki Archives" by the late Miura Ichiro published in 1941 includes sentenses titled "explanatory notes by the writer regarding Shinden-budo (martial arts with Shinto background) as follows: ?@

Today, Uesiba Moritaka from Kisyu-Kumano is praised as an authority of Kosiki Zukuri. When I[Miura] and Sir. Kuki met him in Tokyo recently, Morihei said, "My budo(martial arts) is that of Kukishinden"; he went on to say that he had some scrolls of Kukishinden-Tenshinhyoho, and worshipped Ushitora-no-Kimonkonjin that had been diefied by the Kuki family. It is obvious that his earnest efforts have brought him to the glolious position today; however, we should not pass over the fact that his school of martial arts is based on the real tradition of Shinden-budo.


"Uesiba Moritaka,"that is to say, "Ueshiba Morihei" is the founder of Aikido. But not so many people know that he learned martial arts originated in the Kuki family. And few people know the fact that the prototype of Aikido is based on "teachings of Koshinto(ancient Shintoism)" in Kukishin Ryu and Kukishinden.

Morihei met with Kuki Takaharu for the first time at Omoto Dojo in Yotsuya, Araki Cho. It was the end of the Taisho or the beginning of Showa period, when there was still Kuki family's residence 1 at Aoyama in Tokyo.

In those days(1918), Morihei believed in Omoto-kyou religious sect 2 because he adored Deguchi Onizaburo. Onizaburo offered him to go to Ayabe and teach martial arts, where the headquarters of Omoto existed at that time. It is said that Morihei deplored there was no able martial arts teachers. When he went to Tokyo on some buisiness later on, he visited Senso-ji Temple in Asakusa-Kannon, where he happened to see a man who displayed swordplay against a young man with wonderful skills. Morihei was so surprised that he asked the man about it. He answered, "This is the martial arts of the Kuki family." Morihei was deeply impressed by the great fate that linked him with Omoto-Kyo in Ayabe and the miracurous secret art. So Morihei asked the person to allow himself to become his student right away. After which those three practiced in the corner of the temple for some period.

The man was a Saito, and the young man was Siun Goto, who was a student of medical science; he was supposedly one of the Saito's disciples. It is said that Saito's martial arts 3 was all-round ones that centered on swordsmanship. There was one thing Morihei was especially interested in --- Reijutsu (Shintoistic spiritualism). Saito seems to have called this "Kuki Reijutsu"; we can see traces of "Shinto of the Kukis" and "spiritualism in Kurama" that is the source of the school.

After Morihei learned Kukishin Ryu and various Reijutsu from Saito, he began to research more based on the words of his teacher "martial arts of the Kuki family." At long last, he came to visit Sir.Takaharu who was the Soke of Kukishin Ryu.

A distant view of Mt.Honguyama in Ayabe
(taken near Wakamiya shrine) At their first meeting, Morihei and Sir.Takaharu became on friendly terms with each other. They established Takemusu Aikido, to be exact, Amenomurakumo Samuhara Aikido 4, which is the archetype of Aikido today.
The reason Morihei named his martial arts "Amenomurakumo Samuhara Aikido" is that revelation was revealed before him from "Amenomurakumo Samuhara Ryuo" while he was training and reached the state of unity with Deity on Mt. Hongu 5 in Ayabe.

It is said that he was embraced by the golden light at the moment. In Senpo, this is the evidence that he completed "Daitan."The same phenomenon was expressed as "Shinku" in "Tenshin Hyoho." There is a detailed description in "Hyohomichishirube Shui" by Shirai Toru.

In the middle of the World War when Morihei built "Aiki Shrine" at Iwama-cho in Ibaragi, he implored Sir. Takaharu to be the honorary chief priest. Sir. Takaharu agreed to it, and a ceremony was held in which Takaharu himself served as the master of ceremony and recited a Shinto prayer on the Hosyukusai. On this particular occasion, Sir. Takaharu permitted to share one of a pair of "sho," which was a sacred treasure of "Kukimitama Shrine," as "Wakemitama"(part of spiritual entity). Takaharu also presented "Kura,"or saddle, which was handed down in Kukimitama Shrine. We can see their intimate relation from this fact. After the War, Morihei often visitted Kuki's residense in Kobe. Also he taught students Takemusu Aikido at Bansyu-Takamikura Dojo 6. Their close friendship continued for a long time. It is disappointing that Takemusu Aikido and the Kuki family graually became estranged after Morihei's death.

The entry of Takamikura Dojo
(A writing by Seiseki Abe used to be put on the right side of the wall.)
"Notice:
1 up to 1932-1933, it was in 2 Aoyamaminami-cho 1 chome Akasaka-ku, Tokyo City. At that time, there was "Tokyo City."

2 Now this is the religious corporation "Omoto."

3 Saito's system of master is uncertain. Taking into consideration of his background, it would be the system of Edo. And it is said that Saito himself first began to practiced Takeuchi-Ryu Jyujyutu.

4 "Samuhara" was used for a charm from ancient times. The descriptions of this word often come out in Literatures of the Edo era, but almost all of them are uncertain. One opinion suggested that the origin of Samuhara is from Sanpara in Sanskrit. What do you think about it?

5 Another name is Mt.Turu or Mt. Okehuse which is located on the east of Old Ayabe Castle. It looks like a hill. On the top, there was a Shousi of Kumano Shrine, called Motokumano, built by Taira no Shigemori long time ago. Later, it was broken when this mountain became a site of the headquarters of Omotokyou called Baisyouen today.

6 In fact, a signboard reading " Amenotakemusu Aikijyuku Takamikura Dojo" once was on the wall of the entarance of Takamikura Dojo. The signboard was written by Seiseki Abe who was the latest disciple of Morihei."

L Fitzgerald

[Nathan Scott]

L,

I'm afraid I am short of time right now, but I will address the a few things in your reply:

The Kuji contained the following words that were chanted while the fingers of both hands were manipulated into various postures and are collectively known as Kuji kiri.

The finger knitting etc. is typically referred to as "kuji" or "kuji-in", which are the hand signs. Juji is another aspect in Shingon, which are prawn signs. Kuji kiri is specifically the cutting motions (kiri) made with the hands that trace a cross-hatching pattern. When ninjutsu first came out, everyone thought that kuji-kiri was the name of the finger knitting, but terminology has been better documented since the early 80's.

The Chinese ideogram for Shinobi and Ninjitsu are one and the same, and in Japanese it is pronounced Shinobi and in Chinese pronounced Ninjitsu.

No, they're not. The first kanji used is the same, and can be read as either "nin" or "shino(bu)". NinJITSU is also incorrect, as the kanji for "jitsu" is different than the kanji for "jutsu". The second character required to create the term "shinobi" is different than the kanji used to create the term "ninjutsu". Also, to my way of understanding, shinobi is a more accurate term for a ninja that "ninjutsu". Ninjutsu are "ninja techniques/art". If you wanted to interchange these terms, you would have to change shinobi to something like shinobijutsu or shinobi-ho (ninpo).

Also, the names you have for the patterns are not the ones more commonly found in Shingon and Mikkyo that I am aware of - though they may be correct for some particular branch - I dunno.

The more common terms are (or which there are nine):

Rin, pyo, to, sha, kai, jin retsu, zai, zen.

Your second reference about aiki is well known, and I believe borrowed from one of Donn Draeger's books (as well as quoted often by my boy Ron Duncan - only book he seems to have read). I believe the title of the book is read "Budo Hiketsu - Aiki no jutsu" (The Secret of Budo - Techniques of Aiki). "Heketsu" is not a word.

Mr. L, I think it's time for some new "notes".

[L-Fitzgerald]

I never made footnotes while putting this data into notes, but you're welcome to peruse this list and advise me as to which ones should be "burned." As they would say in NEW YARKE, I have no reason to make things up - just sharing some info - including typos not necessarily mine. And I believe some sword arts also use the Kuji mantra's as well - but then its just conjecture at this point, but I may have read it in a Suino book, not sure tho....

As for other data, over the years its been found that the best policy is not to trust a single source, Japanese or otherwise for info and over time I've discovered a Pandora's box full of cross comments and conflicting data, Japanese, Chinese and Occidental.... Hell with regard to modern times one just has to read Edwin Hoyt's books on Japan and compare his views with that of Edward Behr, or those of Jared Taylor.

L Fitzgerald

[INFINOO]

Thanks to everyone who took the time to respond. I thought this thread was a goner, but some very interesting information is coming to light.

L Fitzgerald: I like your meathodology for "cross referencing" information. Works for me.

The mention of ninjutsu "Kuji Kuri" is interesting and reminds me of a "story" my ninjutsu teacher told me in regards to Hatsumi making cutting motions in the air in the face of bad energy directed towards him by some in the crowd. Again this is second hand information and just so you know ,Im not asking anyone else to buy into this practice. I only speak for myself and at this point , I dismiss nothing. At any rate, I hope this discussion continues.

Regards

Gregory Rogalsky
Rogalsky Combatives International
Calgary Alberta Canada

[L-Fitzgerald]

GR:

Enjoyed your input as well. Working near NY has resulted in making the acquaintance of some Japanese and Chinese individuals. As a result I use them as sounding boards whenever something new comes up in discussions. And in this regard could not have chosen two more difficult languages. For example I was surprised to learn that although the Japanese language contains contains five vowels and nineteen consonants. These make up 50 different syllables and 75 different sounds, and as a result the number of similar sounding spoken words is almost overwhelming, along with the numerous examples of the number of Japanese words being used improperly in western literature. For example ask someone Japanese for their word for sword - most times you'll be told its "Katana" but the actual word is "To" [a Katana is a type of Japanese sword]. Now add to this mix that written Japanese also uses two phonetic writing systems, Hiragana and Katakana. I'm told that Hiragana, is an ancient Japanese system of writing easily recognized by its cursive form, and commonly used for prefixes and suffixes to Chinese characters known as Kanji adapted from and during the time of the Han dynasty in China.

But now here comes the "Rest Of The Story;" Japan's Ministry of Education recognizes 1,945 Kanji as “daily use characters” with most college graduates will know about 3,000 characters. However, an Imperial Dictionary that was compiled in 1710 A.D. identified 40,543 Kanji characters. And written Katakana with its squared form is generally limited to domestic communication, and add to these . And too their language also contains a "slew" of foreign words. As for translation I've learned that three systems can be used: the Hepburn [Hebon-shiki - also called Romaji], the Offical [Kunrei-shiki] system, almost obsolete, and the Japanese [Nihon-shiki] system are used. By the way it also helps to have a Nelson Dictionary as well. A bit pricey for a dictionary, but worth the investment.

By comparison Chinese as a language seems even more difficult because of the more than 100 different dialects found. Thus asking someone from Fukien Province "Nee yo ma?" may need to be phrased as: "Ah yo ma" for someone speaking Mandarin [or is this backwards?].

"Shay Shay."

Have a great holiday.

L Fitzgerald