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Thread: Kiai - different types and punctuation.

  1. #1
    Benjamin Peters Guest

    Default Kiai - different types and punctuation.

    Can anyone provide some information on different 'kiai' of their particular school? I realize different types exist, as well as the timing of the kiai itself. I am interested in both aspects.

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    Benjamin Peters

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    Default Kiai methods..

    Hi Benjamin.
    In the Genbukan we usually use two main types of Kiai. One is used primarily for an attack and sounds like 'Ai'. The second type is a recieving form pronounced 'Towa'.
    The timing of their use is mot often when actually delivering the strike (Ai) and when first blocking the Uke' attack (Towa) this can then be followed up with an attack and attacking Kiai or a second block made etc..
    The variety of schools that we study elements of means a variety of Kiai for each school. The most 'impressive' would be the longer Kiai used for kata in the Yagyu Shingan Ryu...The Kiai lasts several seconds and follows quite closely to the above outlines. The timing in the Shingan Ryu is that the Kiai are used from the very first movements as a 'warming' type of shout...Getting the body ready maybe?
    I am not a Shodan yet so that is all I really can let you know about. The further into each school we study the more comes up and there is a lot more than I have detailed here..
    It is a start though...
    Abayo
    Ben Sharples.
    智は知恵、仁は思いやり、勇は勇気と説いています。

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    Default Kiai

    Here are two notes I posted on another web forum (www.aikiweb.com) about kiai:


    Some schools teach kiai as an active component of training, others don't. Whether or not it's taught, it happens.

    Ki = Spirit/energy/intent
    Ai = Meeting/harmonizing/joining

    It does not mean 'spirit shout' and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with sound at all.

    Some folks say kiai is the same as aiki, but I think it's really more an obverse and complement of aiki.

    I've heard one explanation that I like: we create an aiki (spirit/energy converging/meeting/joining) situation and kiai (a meeting of spirits or energies) happens. Some define kiai as the moment of domination of the opponent's will.

    To me, kiai is a fully focused spirit, and is connected to the ideas of zanshin and kokoro.

    A sound is often produced, sometimes quite involuntarily, and by training to produce specific sounds, you can enhance your ability to find and use those moments, but the sound itself is not necessary nor always desireable.

    In our system, we do include theory and practice of kiai and have a handful of drills designed to teach proper sound (and there are particular sounds associated with particular events (Yah! Toh! Eiiii! Ho!), but again, the sound is kind of like a mnemonic, it's a placeholder for what you DO, not the event itself.

    OK, rereading that, it's clear as mud, but that sort of thing is really better dealt with in the dojo rather than with words and electrons.
    ... and ...


    The sounds used to punctuate kiai differ between systems. In Muso Shinto Ryu, for instance, the sound used when striking/cutting is Eiiiii! For thrusting, it's Hohhhh!

    In my dojo, I teach some general uses, Eiii! is a sort of greeting/opening; Tohhhh! is used when attacking or reacting. Ho! is a finishing sound ... there are others, and we're not rigorous about using them specifically, but they're there in the curriculum.

    And it's also something best dealt with in person, on the mat, in training, rather than in sterile words on the screen. There are, I think, subharmonics, emotional impacts, etc, etc all tied in.

    We use a couple of different exercises to find and train the proper pitch for the sounds, too. And again, those are best dealt with in person rather than online.
    Best,

    Chuck
    Chuck Gordon
    Mugendo Budogu
    http://www.budogu.com/

  4. #4
    Benjamin Peters Guest

    Default

    In Muso Shinto Ryu, for instance, the sound used when striking/cutting is Eiiiii! For thrusting, it's Hohhhh!


    Thank you very much for the responses. I have heard before that many people Kiai without formal guidance which leads to sounds like EIPP and TOHP etc etc which has a short and defined stop. It is said that this type is 'bad' because it can block the 'ki' or internal energy from being at it's full power. Others say that the EIIIIIHHH and HOHHH etc etc are better for this reason.

    Otherwise, can anyone comment on the 'timing' aspect of their particular school in relation to Kiai? I have seen Takeuchi Ryu practioners strike, then kiai only on conclusion of their strike (and yes in that order).
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    Benjamin Peters

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    Default

    Interesting you should mention that Ben. I'm a linguist, and 90% of kiai I have experienced/heard end in vowel sounds - allowing an 'explosion' of physical energy outwards. The remaining 10% finish in a plosive/stop (e.g. p, t) to retain much of that physical energy inside. Can't comment about the mental aspects, but I think you're spot on with your insight!

    Daniel Lee

  6. #6
    MarkF Guest

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    I agree "spirit shout" is a bad definition, but when kiai is produced due attempting to use all or most force one has takes a lot of spirit, generically speaking.

    If you come across the TLC documentary Marital Arts: The Real Story, Meik Skoss gives a good example of proper kiai, considering that the one shot was done with several takes.
    ****

    My theory on kiai is more or less the same as whatever utterances come out when doing something taking more than average inner strength, such as lifting something heavy one has never done before. Some have air pushed out by the diaphragm and do not pass the vocal chords while others begin with a gargling-like sound, then rising to a shout or longer grunt, and ends once its use is terminated or no longer needed, generally well-before running out of such strength. All of it should be done without a thought to doing so or not. In the beginning, it is sometimes necessary as most use a certain amount of strength when performing a technique, later being simply a natural urge to let loose.

    While I may be applying this in the setting of a judo dojo, it applies just about anywhere. The most important thing when teaching this technique is to NEVER call it "kiai" as this almost assures that the student will shout that word. It doesn't matter later on, but it can lead to an artificial and useless kiai for a long while. EEEiiii though, is close.

    Mark

  7. #7
    Benjamin Peters Guest

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    I agree "spirit shout" is a bad definition, but when kiai is produced due attempting to use all or most force one has takes a lot of spirit, generically speaking.


    Mark, I hope not to side line your contribution, but I'd rather stick to the topic of actual sound and timing if it's OK . This over debating meaning into the word 'kiai' - too many other threads have covered this before.

    The most important thing when teaching this technique is to NEVER call it "kiai" as this almost assures that the student will shout that word.


    Too true, especially children's classes.
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    Benjamin Peters

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