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View Poll Results: Would you continue to allow your children to train at this school?

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Thread: Right or Wrong #2

  1. #1
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    Default Right or Wrong #2

    Master X teaches tai chi at a local YMCA. He has a large children's class and very popular with the parents.

    He tells the parents that his has been diagnosed as being infected with HIV. He contracted this (in his words) due to his "life style." He wants to continue teaching martial arts and feels that there will be no risk to the students.

    You are a Parent. Do you keep your children in his martial arts class?
    John Lindsey

    Oderint, dum metuant-Let them hate, so long as they fear.

  2. #2
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    No. Not because of the "lifestyle" of the teacher, but the fact that taiji is a martial art. Therefore at some point, it becomes violent & with violence comes the inevitable (albeit not intentional probably) spilling of bodily fluids. A good serious push hands match can be just a violent & brutal as anything else. Gotta say NO to that one.
    ********

    Chorus: "Hey Torquemada, whaddya say?"
    Torquemada: "Any new converts today?"
    Chorus: "Nay Nay Nay"
    Torquemada: "Send in the nuns!!"

  3. #3
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    I think this would probably depend on what he means by 'life-style'. If he was a homosexual, I would have no problem with my children continuing to train there. As there is unlikely to be any blood spilled at a children's tai chi class, I don't think there's much danger. If 'life-style' means intravenous drug user, then the answer would be no. If he didn't clarify what he meant, then the answer would also be no.
    David F. Craik

  4. #4
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    Ok, lets say for this situation that he is Gay.
    John Lindsey

    Oderint, dum metuant-Let them hate, so long as they fear.

  5. #5
    Nicolas Caron Guest

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    Wow, really good question. I'd want a little more details on the "life-style" stuff. Lots of people get infected with the HIV by using injected drugs and that would concern me. Sexual orientation/habits would not matter in my decision making.

    If it would be a more violent art than Tai-Chi I would probably pull my kids from the school for safety reasons. The art being taught being Tai-CHi I think it would depend on the approach the teacher has toward that art. My kids safety would be my primary concern, but I think I would invite the teacher for a coffee so I could discuss my concerns with him and see how he wants to approach teaching now that he's aware of his condition before I would make any decision.

    Another thing, I'd be worried about what could have happened in class BEFORE he was aware that he was HIV-positive. Think I would make my kids pass an HIV test just to be sure.

  6. #6
    Don Cunningham Guest

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    I'm afraid I would pull my child out of class. I don't think there is much chance of infection in an art like tai chi, but you never know. I might stay in myself, but I wouldn't want to risk the life or health of my child.

    We had a local jujutsu instructor die of complications from HIV. Shortly before his death, the illness became obvious. However, he informed his students only after it was clearly evident. Further, he claimed to have become infected in an accidental needle stick on the job while testing blood in a hospital several years prior. My problem is that he knew that he was HIV positive and didn't tell anyone for fear of their reaction. Personally, I think that was not right. Despite the negative reaction he expected, they all deserved to make their own choice based on the facts.

  7. #7
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    Assuming he is an excellent teacher (which he would if I let my kid take classes there), I wouldn't have a problem with keeping my child in the class.

    I'd reward his honesty and his willingness to make his personal life well known. It would have been just as easy to keep it quiet. With medication these days, you'd be hard pressed to spot an hiv-positive individual. Assuming that we could come up with a set of precautions to follow in case of cuts, etc, I'm sure we'd be OK. Plenty of people play basketball with Magic Johnson with no problems. Get over it.

    Of course, if he was a homosexual who got the disease from intravenous drug use, I would yank my kid out of the class.

    The real question here is, how does one teach tai chi to kids and be successful???
    - Tom Marker

  8. #8
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    Interesting stuff so far. When I made up this question, I thought the lifestyle question would hint at this teacher being a homosexual, without saying so outright. I didn't think being an IV drug user would be considered a lifestyle .

    Maybe it is today, so I guess we will be seeing children's books like: "My Friend: Jimmy the Junkie."
    John Lindsey

    Oderint, dum metuant-Let them hate, so long as they fear.

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    There was a time that I would have said NO but being a father has changed my perspective immensely. I wouldn't risk exposing my male child to either possibility of infection (drugs, sexual abuse, or disease) I'm not saying that ALL gay Tai chi teachers are also pediphiles but what if it was the youth pastor of a church taking your kid on a summer camp or retreat? You are trusting this person not only with the physical care of your child but with his mental and spiritual development as well. Looks like my predjudice is showing but when it comes to my kid I take no chances.
    Greg Caplinger
    Gekka Dojo
    GWBNF/KJJR

    "Shin-gi-tai-ichi"

  10. #10
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    I don't know enough about Tai Chi to know if there is any danger of infection during class.....so I'd have to find out more about that to make a fully informed choice.

    As for AIDS itself, I have two friends now (both gay) who are positive. Neither their sexual orientation nor their illness has made any change in how I treat them, or how they treat me.
    Ron Rompen
    Goju Ryu
    Kitchener, Ont

  11. #11
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    Originally posted by Onmitsu
    There was a time that I would have said NO but being a father has changed my perspective immensely. I wouldn't risk exposing my male child to either possibility of infection (drugs, sexual abuse, or disease) I'm not saying that ALL gay Tai chi teachers are also pediphiles but what if it was the youth pastor of a church taking your kid on a summer camp or retreat? You are trusting this person not only with the physical care of your child but with his mental and spiritual development as well. Looks like my predjudice is showing but when it comes to my kid I take no chances.
    I can understand your concern. But from what I understand there are far fewer cases of pedophelia among otherwise gay males then there are among otherwise heterosexual males. According to what I have read it is a rare child molester (even those that prefer same-sex children) that is also attracted to adults of the same sex. There simply doesn't appear to be any correlation between the two.

    As to Mr. Lindsey's post concerning drug use to be a lifestyle...it surely can be. Maybe more compelling and imprisoning than any other factor or 'lifestyle'..even sexuality.
    David F. Craik

  12. #12
    Laotse Guest

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    Interesting question. I teach taiji, as well as train with other advanced practitioners. I would have serious problems with training at an advanced level with someone who had HIV ... infection is a possibility, even if remote. We trade sweat all the time, and occasionally blood. I have a second-degree burn right now that would be susceptible to such infection. Who cares why they have it? Likelihood of transmission is the same regardless.

    Now, I must point out, I've never heard of a children's taiji class. Never met a child willing to put up with it -- requires too much patience, not fast-paced enough. My own children turn up their nose at it, even after seeing it demonstrated as a martial art. So this is an imperfect example, but I think we all get the point nonetheless.

  13. #13
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    Will why wouldn't you keep them in the class?? I think there should be no problem.. It is a Tai Chi class and as far as I understand it Tai Chi does not have hard contact, so where is the risk.

    Onmitsu.. let's say the teacher is heterosexual and his lifestyle has been sleeping with lot's of women and using no protection, and he got HIV in this way...

    Would you still choose to stop your children from attending??
    Rogier van der Peijl

    REAL SCOTSMEN WEAR KILTS because sheep can hear a zipper at 500 yards!

    Originally posted by Cady Goldfield
    Ah, what a cutie, Rogier. I'll bet a lot of ladies in Netherlands are mourning because you are out of circulation now!

  14. #14
    kenshorin Guest

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    Originally posted by Onmitsu
    I wouldn't risk exposing my child to either possibility of infection
    I agree on this part, although I probably wouldn't worry so much about the pedophilia. The truth is, t'ai chi is a physical activity; it might not have as much contact as other martial arts, but accidents can and will happen. I would not want to put my child in a predicament with a higher chance of possible contraction, especially when they would not be able to avoid potentially harmful situations when body fluids could be passed. It would be different for myself, being adult who can make the determination and take appropriate steps to prevent my own chances of contracting. A tough question however.

  15. #15
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    For the record:
    - Being homosexual does not increase the likelyhood of being infected with HIV; not having safe sex does.
    - Using intravenous drugs does not increase the likelyhood of being infected with HIV; exchanging needles does
    Question: Should I be concerned about getting infected with HIV while playing sports?
    Answer: There are no documented cases of HIV being transmitted during participation in sports. The very low risk of transmission during sports participation would involve sports with direct body contact in which bleeding might be expected to occur.

    If someone is bleeding, their participation in the sport should be interrupted until the wound stops bleeding and is both antiseptically cleaned and securely bandaged. There is no risk of HIV transmission through sports activities where bleeding does not occur.
    Source: http://www.thebody.com/cdc/faq/trans...Q.html#fifteen (my emphasis)
    Menno van Slooten
    http://www.shinkendo.nl

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