Samurai Kenjutsu vs. X-Kan Kenjutsu vs. Modern Kenjutsu

[cc_ninja]

Just a thought, but would anyone like to comment on the differences they have experienced between these different schools of Kenjutsu.

Traditional Samurai Kenjutsu - As taught in Aikido, Aikijutsu, Jujutsu, etc.

X-Kan Kenjutsu - Bujinkan / Genbukan school of Kenjutsu based on Yagyu Shinkage-ryu

Modern Kenjutsu - Bastardized Kenjutsu as taught through the, what works for an oversized American man with a midsize Japanese sword method. (Sounds funny but as you well know, I am serious)

Which do you study/prefer ?

Thanks,
Richard Elizondo

[Tony Peters]

Aikido doesn't have any Kenjutsu it has some boken/jo techniques which are related to the taijutsu. The same may be true for aikijujutsu. .

The X-Kans if they truely have taken their sword systems from Yagyu Shinkage ryu are no better than the American Kinjitsu ryuha. just a little more upfront about it

Koryu kenjutsu is as real as an art that cannot truely be tested can be I find this most appealing

[Jeffery Brian Hodges]

Hi,
Bikenjutsu in the Genbukan system is very formal and traditional. Tanemura sensei is amazing with a katana, if you have watched the Panther series Bikenjutsu video tapes by him you can understand this, however it is much more impressive in real life. The Genbukan Bikenjutsu is based off of Kukishin ryu and Togakure ryu, Tanemura sensei has also been explaining the future will also include Shinden Fudo ryu Iaijutsu, I believe it was mentioned at the last Tai Kai that Shinden Fudo ryu Iaijutsu was connected to Yagyu Shinkage ryu. It is very real and no joke. One of the ways that we train is to practice the basic cuts many times, for example taking 10 cuts and practicing each 100 times for 1000 cuts. It is a very true and honest kind of training that cuts straight to the core feeling of martial arts.

sincerely,

[Jeff Hamacher]

kenjutsu, like many forms of martial training, is one big, walking anachronism, since nobody carries around a sword for self-defense in the modern age (unless they're looking to get arrested). any kind of martial training involving a sword (specifically a nihonto or katana) is dedicated to the purpose of maintaining some tradition carried on from an age when japanese actually did wear swords as a matter of course. considered thus:

1) the term "american kenjutsu/kenjitsu" is totally meaningless. first, if they're teaching the use of swords that may have been worn by americans at some point in their history, why are they using the japanese term kenjutsu? second, if these schools admit up-front that they're teaching something other than traditional japanese sword arts, once again, there's no reason for them to include any reference to japan; it can't be anything other than a selling point for potential students. the only way this would make sense is if the user means "kenjutsu training in the USA", where at least some schools of traditional japanese sword arts operate.

2) kenjutsu as it's taught in the ninpo/budo-taijutsu/bugei schools nominally represents traditional japanese sword work. i have no direct experience or specialized knowledge, so i won't comment further on it.

3) "samurai kenjutsu", as it's called here, certainly isn't what you find in aikido. there's a fair amount of evidence to suggest that "aiki no ken" techniques are derived from Kashima Shinto-ryu sword techniques (more info can be found here), but the way that they're applied in aikido is quite different, i assume. it's my understanding that each school of the other two arts you mention (jujutsu or aikijujutsu) has their own set of weapons techniques; what relation they have to koryu kenjutsu proper might best be explained by exponents of those arts.

as for koryu kenjutsu, i have to plead ignorance here, too. i do train in Shinto Muso-ryu jo, which involves a lot of sword work and even has it's own set of kenjutsu no kata (which i won't get a chance to study for another 8-10 years, in all likelihood), but i have no direct experience with koryu kenjutsu itself. if you want kenjutsu, finding a licensed and recognized teacher (i.e. someone who has a verifiable, current affiliation with the headmaster of a koryu art, if not the headmaster themself) and getting their permission to train under them is surely the best option. the link i provided above for Meik Skoss's article at Koryu Books is a good example, but have a look at the whole website for lots of great starting points on your way to understanding japanse classical martial arts.

[NumeroUno]

Originally posted by cc_ninja
Just a thought, but would anyone like to comment on the differences they have experienced between these different schools of Kenjutsu.

Traditional Samurai Kenjutsu - As taught in Aikido, Aikijutsu, Jujutsu, etc.

X-Kan Kenjutsu - Bujinkan / Genbukan school of Kenjutsu based on Yagyu Shinkage-ryu

Modern Kenjutsu - Bastardized Kenjutsu as taught through the, what works for an oversized American man with a midsize Japanese sword method. (Sounds funny but as you well know, I am serious)

Which do you study/prefer ?

Thanks,
Richard Elizondo

Huh??

Traditional samurai kenjutsu is taught in a gendai art like Aikido? I think Mr. Hamacher explained this one well...

X-Kan kenjutsu is based on Yagyu Shinkage Ryu? As far as I remember, of the X-Kans only the Genbukan does any Yagyu-style arts at all, and it's Yagyu Shingan Ryu Taijutsu, not Yagyu Shinkage Ryu Kenjutsu. Mr. Hodges would probably know far better than I would here though. Someone doesn't know what they're talking about...

Modern kenjutsu is bastardized kenjutsu taught by oversized American men with midsize Japanese swords? The Toyama Ryu, Nakamura Ryu, and people who preserve gunto soho would laugh you out of Japan...

Sorry, I don't think anyone will get anywhere by asking people to base their decisions on pure misconceptions.

Rahul Bhattacharya

[John Lindsey]

The Genbukan Bikenjutsu System is based on the Kukishin-ryu sword arts, and a little bit from Togakure-ryu. Tanemura Sensei is training in Itto-ryu, but is keeping it separate, since this is his own personal training at this time. If a student wants to learn it, you have to ask. As for the shinden fudo-ryu kenjutsu, I asked him about it last month in Japan and he didn't seem as excited about it, unlike some e-budo members . From what I remember, the shinden fudo-ryu sword arts were taken from another art, maybe the Shinkage ryu already mentioned.