A Boy's First Pistol

[knotwell]

Was a .380 auto. Unfortunately, I didn't fire it before purchase. As a result, I seldom shoot it 'cause it irritates my hand (I suppose I could get the offending area filed down).

Knowing what I know now. . .buy a model you've fired before and enjoy shooting.

In my case, this means a double-action* revolver chambered (preparing for the hoots of derision from the audience) for .22LR. Specifically, my wife and I have both been happy with the S&W Model 63.

*Several years ago, I read a column by Massad Ayoob making a reasonable case for picking double-action revolvers over single. His convincing, fundamental premise was DA revolvers are safer.

[John Lindsey]

Whats the situation these days on magazines? I bought my Glock just before they banned the "large" cap mags. How many rounds can you have in a mag now, and is it still easy to buy the pre ban mags?

[Elliot Harris]

First, I'd like to identify that I do not have any real expertese with handguns specifically.

But, I did serve as an infantryman for 3 years in Fairbanks, and I am more than familiar with firearms in general and arctic considerations specifically. As such I will not make any specific recommendations, but try to offer you some specific considerations that may be useful in narrowing the scope of choices.

You did say that you intended to use the weapon for self defense. As I recall anecdotally, weapons were used more often for defense against charging 1,000 - 2,000 lbs. + moose and bear than they were against people. As such I would imagine a large calibur would be preferred. A hunter friend of mine never went out with anything smaller than a .45.

Secondly, specific arctic environmental considerations need to kept at the forefront of decision making.

1. usually temps. avg -20 deg. F for 6+ mos of the year.

2. it is extreemly dry (1-2% humidity)

3. space is different in AK. There is a LOT of it, and things look closer in extreme cold than they do elsewhere.

As such I offer this:

- history of reliablity in extreme cold (some plastics have a tendancy to crack when fired in extreme cold)
- use only graphite lubricants as oils will gum-up
- you will be wearing HEAVY gloves most of the time so make sure you have a large trigger-well that you can then access easily
- easy safety and single action desirable (for ease of use/reliability)
- carry considerations: in winter, outside clothing (or at least in outer pockets) as the weapon will likely sweat and then freeze-up causing a malfunction if carried next to the body
- you will also probably want a weapon that is a little more accurate at longer ranges over concealment considerations (concealment was never much of a social issue in AK as I recall)

Obviously, talking to some of the locals (gun shop owners were always friendly and helpful with this kind of discussion) for more specifics, along with anyone else here who can address some of these issues with a little more depth.

Elliot

[Soulend]

Originally posted by John Lindsey
Whats the situation these days on magazines? I bought my Glock just before they banned the "large" cap mags. How many rounds can you have in a mag now, and is it still easy to buy the pre ban mags?

I believe 10 is the limit now, however 'pre-ban' mags are still all over the place...kinda makes me wonder if they aren't still being made...

[Neil Hawkins]

Joe Svinth wrote:

However, if you practice a lot, then this is fairly irrelevant. Montana Ed McGivern, for instance, used to shoot five standard loads from a single-action Army .45 (the cowboy gun)into a playing card, in about 3/4 of a second. Ed was faster with a double action .38, though, putting five rounds into the playing card in .45/100ths of a second. Of course, I wouldn't count on this kind of speed anytime soon if I were you.

That is incredible speed, he must have had strong wrists.

I have seen footage of guys shooting Action Match at the Bianchi cup getting six shots into six different falling plates from the holster in 3 seconds. I can barely do it in 6! I doubt I could even squeeze off five shots in under a second regardless of accuracy.

I'll have to go out searching the web for references to Ed McGivern now and find out more about him! Then off to the range to practice!

BTW. I have a Ruger Mk1 (.22 semi-auto), a S&W .357 and a Sig Sauer P226 (9mm semi-auto). I enjoy shooting all of them, the .22 is accurate and cheap, the .357 is loud and accurate over longer ranges and the Sig is just fun.

The only useful thing I have to add to the previous comments is that if you plan on shooting a lot, look into reloading. It is considerably cheaper than buying factory ammunition and you can tailor the load/projectile to your application.

Neil

[Joseph Svinth]

McGivern's book is Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting (Chicago: Follett Publishing, 1975). It's still in print. See, for example, http://www.gunbooksales.com/shooting.htm . There is video, too. See, for example, http://www.brianenos.com/pages/videos2.html .

For a picture of McGivern's .357 Magnum Colt Single Action Army, see http://www.horstheld.com/0-Colt-4.htm . You buy it (just $20,000), and they'll even throw in a first edition of his book (1938). Photos of McGivern's .38 Super appear at http://www.horstheld.com/0-Jordan.htm .

I saw Ross Seyfried, et al., at the IPSC Internationals in Jo'burg in 1979. It was astonishing what they did. In 1985, I also saw John Satterwaite of the H&K factory team give a demo of an MP5 rigged for covert use. (It was the briefcase rig.) Satteherwaite was also very impressive, once he took the gun back out of the briefcase and took the safety off.

[TommyK]

Greetings,

I am responding to this thread with the story of my first gun, as the original thread was entitled.

Having most of my family in law enforcement, I decided to get my NYC pistol license back in '84, to join the family on the range. It took about 9 months, close to $200, BUT I got a 'purchase order' to buy whatever I wanted for my first pistol.

I chose a S&W .357magnum, nickel plated (model 586)and still have it. I bought it because of the ability to shoot both .357 and .38 calibers, and the fact that I was 'allowed' to get it. A year or two later I applied for another purchase order, this time for a .22 S&W automatic (model 422). I bought it for the economical purpose of shooting .22's, which are cheaper than. 38's or .357's.

When I go to the range I usually shoot about 100 rounds of .22 caliber,50 rounds of .38 and then about 15 .357 rounds, to 'blow out' the barrel. Of course, this is at an indoor range, strictly supervised and video monitored. But, thats NYC.

I agree that we should not let this turn into a 'mine is better than yours' thread, and I thank Joe Svinth and others for the illuminating history and simplification of gun lore in previous responses.

I feel comfortable having the weapons in the house if needed for self-defense, but by complying with the law in NYC, it would have to be the second coming of the original revolution for me to get them out in time. However, for me, it satisified the purpose of doing something with family and friends in the area of law enforcement, and as I got into the art of shooting, I began to see it as 'violent' meditation.

The focus needed to consistently hit the center of the bull, or at least to try to hit it, reduces things to you and the target, the weapon, as in Kyudo, ceases to exist. It is you and the target.

In a pinch, the time spent shooting and the expertise gained, stand me in good stead if needed in a self defense scenario. Personally, I'd rather not be in a situation where I'd have to use it, but as in the Martial Arts, the skill is there if we need it; even though we practice for other reasons.

My 2 cents worth!

Regards,
TommyK
Tom Militello

Peace, Love and Understanding every time!

[fuzzyweasel]

Hope I'm not just repeating someone elses post, but man you guys post to long so I didn't even read em.

I have a Glock 23 myself, and have shot most models of the Glock (its nice to live near the US headquarters). I have not seen a gun range yet that didn't rent out Glocks so just look in the phone book if you are interested in em. Their web site is: http://www.glock.com/.

I think a Glock is a great gun for a new gun guy, or us sick sad gun freaks. The lack of an external safety is one of my favorite aspects of a Glock (fumbling for a switch at 4:00 am after hearing your door burst in isn't my idea of home defense), but is less of a cool thing if you have kids.

If you won't to spend a bit more cash a Sig is pretty sweet (http://www.sigarms.com/).

Hope that helped.