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Thread: Hatsumi-sensei a national treasure?

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    Default Hatsumi-sensei a national treasure?

    Having studied classical Jujutsu for several years and having joined the Bujinkan a couple years ago, it is clear to me that Hatsumi-sensei is an extraordinary budoka. Seeing his incredible movement and reading some of the books he has written tells me that this is a living legend. To me he is as great an artist and innovator as Morihei Ueshiba was. I'm sure most of us in the Bujinkan will agree. I'm curious about whether he is very well-known in Japan itself and whether he has received the "national treasure" status that Ueshiba did?

    I know he has received plenty of awards from organisations in the West, but is he as greatly-respected by other Japanese masters? Or does the Japanese martial arts community view him as only one of many great artists?

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    Braden Nicols

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    Angry re:

    hello,

    I've read somewhere that many famous koryu leaders have doubts about the autenticity of the titles of Hatsumi Sensei.

    I do not know if this is the common opinion.

    Cheers,

    Paolo
    Paolo Rossi
    Italy

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    While he has received many honors, including the Emperor, I don't think he has ever been given a title of being a national treasure.
    John Lindsey

    Oderint, dum metuant-Let them hate, so long as they fear.

  4. #4
    Jenny1000 Guest

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    it's marketing 101 all over again

    Jenny Lynn

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    Default Re: re:

    Originally posted by paolo_italy
    hello,

    I've read somewhere that many famous koryu leaders have doubts about the autenticity of the titles of Hatsumi Sensei.

    I do not know if this is the common opinion.

    Cheers,

    Paolo
    I have heard this before several times.
    However, I believe it is irrelevant in this context.
    Ueshiba's Aikido was not koryu either. IIRC, he developed it based on his previous martial arts (including Daito-Ryu Aikijujutsu), but said that it was more strongly influenced by the Omoto-kyo religion.
    So Ueshiba was greatly revered and declared a national treasure even though he was not soke of any koryu art.

    So what I am really asking is whether Hatsumi-sensei has attained that same level of respect in Japan for what he has achieved in terms of his personal ability, his historical knowledge, his evolution and synthesis of Budo Taijutsu, his unique way of teaching and his opening up Ninpo to the world and NOT because he is or isn't teaching koryu.

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    Braden Nicols

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    I have heard before that Hatsumi Sensei has received the title of ningen kokuho, but I am unable to find an authoritative source of information on the Internet to verify this.

  7. #7
    Tamdhu Guest

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    I'm not sure whether or not Hatsumi Soke has the 'national treasure' status of which you are speaking, but he has been honored by his own country for his achievements in cultural exchange:

    http://www.bujinkansf.org/hatsumi/awardframe.html

  8. #8
    red_fists Guest

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    Hi.

    I think he was ecognised as a "national treasure" for upholding and spreading japanese tradition.

    There are many "national treasures" in Japan like Kimono-makers and other traditional craftsmen.

    Cheers.

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    This topic was discussed at length a few years ago on the old Ninpo-L email list. The rumor was most probably started by a Westerner, since Hatsumi S. nor any of the Japanese shihan has never suggested this, to be best of my knowledge. While he has received many high honors, this is not one of them.

    I thought the national treasure status was also given to arts that for economical reasons were on the verge of extinction.
    John Lindsey

    Oderint, dum metuant-Let them hate, so long as they fear.

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    Originally posted by John Lindsey
    The rumor was most probably started by a Westerner, since Hatsumi S. nor any of the Japanese shihan has never suggested this, to be best of my knowledge.
    The first time I heard this was in a article by Ilan Gattegno during the mid 80's in the Ninja magazine.
    George Kohler

    Genbukan Kusakage dojo
    Dojo-cho

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    Default

    Here is the article.

    My Six Years with Hatsumi Sensei
    George Kohler

    Genbukan Kusakage dojo
    Dojo-cho

  12. #12
    Iron Clad Brute Guest

    Default Japanese opinion

    The many Japanese that I have trained with all hate Hatsumi to death. They don't believe his claims and just laugh at his "ninjutsu" stuff.

    I have seen (and have on tape) quite a few TV articles where Hatsumi and his stuff is discussed and made fun of! Most of the time they just can't stop laughing and saying, "oh, so this is a ninja huh?"

    Mentioning Hatsumi at a koryu school will usually end up with the teacher no longer taking you seriously or not even talking to you.

    These are my experiences in Japan, not necessarily my opinions.

    And no, Hatsumi DOES NOT HAVE NATIONAL TREASURE STATUS. As a martial artist of great skill, perhaps he should have this bestowed upon him. But, surley the "ninja" people will use this in their arguments that Hatsumi is a legitimate ninjutsu teacher. Just like with his Emperors award for cultural exchange.

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    Default Re: Japanese opinion

    Originally posted by Iron Clad Brute
    The many Japanese that I have trained with all hate Hatsumi to death. They don't believe his claims and just laugh at his "ninjutsu" stuff.

    .

    "Hate to death"?
    That's a very strong choice of words.
    Do they say that he and his abilities are no good in general or do they simply disbelieve the Ninja stuff? As far as I know, the Ninjutsu dimension is only a small part of Hatsumi-sensei's art. What about the Samurai arts that he is Soke of?

    Who are these Japanese that you refer to? I'm not asking for names, but are they high level teachers, shihan level, soke of ryu etc? No names necessary.

    By implication, these people are also dissing Manaka-sensei and Tanemura-sensei as their lineage comes via Hatsumi-sensei.

    Anyway, as long as we are getting good training on the mat, these politics don't bother me too much. It's just a shame that people have to scoff at something just because it doesn't fit their own views.

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    Braden Nicols

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    hello,

    as far as I know, among the 9 ryuha, some respect is tributed only to takagi yoshin ryu and (but less) kukishinden ryu, maybe because these two are the most similar to other "popular" koryu.

    koto ryu and gyokko ryu are seen as minor schools of minor branches of jujutsu.

    togakure ryu is seen more or less like a museum stuff.

    shindenfudo ryu and gikan ryu: besides us (bujinkan) and other "friends", no mention. togakure is just seen as a museum stuff. kumogakure and gyokushin: no evidence...

    but, who really cares? are you satisfied of your own study/path? If so, such discussions are just a waste of time, IMHO.

    paolo rossi

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Japanese opinion

    Originally posted by Iron Clad Brute
    The many Japanese that I have trained with all hate Hatsumi to death. They don't believe his claims and just laugh at his "ninjutsu" stuff.
    I have heard similar stories like this and also none of the respected Koryu Org. in Japan will let him join.

    Originally posted by Iron Clad Brute
    And no, Hatsumi DOES NOT HAVE NATIONAL TREASURE STATUS. As a martial artist of great skill, perhaps he should have this bestowed upon him. But, surley the "ninja" people will use this in their arguments that Hatsumi is a legitimate ninjutsu teacher. Just like with his Emperors award for cultural exchange.

    "Masaaki Hatsumi, founder and grandmaster of the Bujinkan Dojo, has been awarded the International Culture Award by the Japanese government. The award, the highest honor given for cultural exchange, was presented to Dr. Hatsumi by a member of the Imperial Household on November 22, 1999."

    First off it says was given by a member of the Imperial House Hold, not the Emperor. Many awards are given out every year by the Imperial House Hold. To be honest it is doubtful that the Emperor would personally give an award to any martial artist...........might have something to do with that whole WWII bugaboo thing.
    The Emperor's awards are graded. I think there is only 8, I will have to check.
    My ex-boss received the Kun san to-Third Order of Merit. I was actually allowed to attend the ceremony.
    A bit of history on Imperial Awards:

    The awarding of Orders, Ranks and Decorations of Honor dates back to the Taiho Code of 701; however, the present system of Imperial Decorations and Medals of Honor was first established in Japan in the 1870s in general correspondence to systems then current in Western European countries for royal recognition of outstanding individuals. Categories were expanded in 1888 to include women and in 1937 to include broader cultural achievement awards for both men and women.

    Japanese Decorations and Orders consist of:

    *The Order of the Chrysanthemum (Kikkasho) for royalty and heads of state;

    *The Order of the Rising Sun (Kyokujitsusho) (for men) for former prime ministers, heads of political parties, ambassadors and university professors of eminence;

    *The Order of the Precious Crown (Hokansho) (for women) ranks with the Order of the Rising Sun for men if the recipient is non-royalty. This Order in Rank No. 1 is currently worn by Empress Michiko;

    *The Order of the Sacred Treasure (Zuihosho) for former judges, members of the diet, ambassadors and academics (now for men and women); and

    *The Order of Culture (Bunka kunsho) for contributions to arts, letters and culture.

    All but the Order of Culture have Ranks 1 to 8.

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