Likes Likes:  0
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 52

Thread: History of goshin jutsu

  1. #16
    MarkF Guest

    Default Bye, Bye?

    Originally posted by Yoriki Yoroidoshi

    I forgot to say this in my last message. I hope you take no offense to my disagreeing with you on any of what you typed. I'm still disagreeing, but I was not trying to offend you. If you take offense for my differing point of view, I apologize. I've run into quite a few people that get violent if you say anything contradictory to what they think.




    You haven't offended anyone, but you have broken your word.
    Your post will not be deleted, in fact many have read it, but so far no one is willing to discuss it.

    With all that out of the way, this is what this group of people who gather here do. They discuss. It is a discussion board, a bulletin board, call it what you like. This board is a discussion of Japanese Martial arts, for the most part, but it is not limited to that. There is a member's lounge where things on people's minds other than the arts may wish to go and do so. Let this be your invitation. I don't know much about karatedo, even less about goshin jutsu kyo jujo karate. I do, however, know something about the USMAF so if you wish, a discussion could start there if you are not of a mind to discuss something which you had said you were finished discussing, but I digress.

    Mr. Allgeier was not the first to bring up goshin, and its adherents have posted here, multiple times, and good discussion can be had. Possibly you have a chip on your shoulder and so may Mr. Algeier, I don't know, but I am afraid you are just as guilty of the faults you find on this board. You have all ready joined, why not continue? Discussions, no, arguments, such as this are healthy, and maybe some may learn a thing or two. Why leave it unanswered? You may want to start by disputing Mr. Allgeier's "facts" with those of your own, but so far, you have only said what your friends think of E-budo, but you still have not replied to a single fact put foward.

    I don't moderate the karate forum, but I am sure the moderator would not mind if I invited you to do what you claim, but to date, have not.

    Anyway, welcome to E-budo, in case no one has done so. This forum has a few rules and they can be found at the bottom of the page. Other than that, welcome aboard!

    Sincerely,

    Mark




  2. #17
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    3,324
    Likes (received)
    48

    Default

    1. Noting that Dennis Helm has written a history of US judo that is not trustworthy is not hateful. Instead it is merely stating the obvious. (Definition of obvious: "easily discovered, seen, or understood.")

    2. It is also obvious that the message I intended to convey was misunderstood. True conclusions require true supporting documentation. If the supporting documentation is shown to be false, it does not necessarily follow that the conclusion is false, but the argument remains unproved. Therefore, should one wish to rebut Mr. Allgeier's opening statements, one would do well to cite stronger sources.

    3. As for what one can and cannot post on E-budo, this is not that other board where any disagreement with the moderator is instantly removed. On E-budo, the rules are:

    Please sign your posts with your full name.
    Profanity will not be tolerated.
    Blatant commercial advertising is not allowed.
    Treat your fellow E-Budo members with respect.



    [Edited by Joseph Svinth on 09-19-2000 at 06:03 AM]

  3. #18
    Eldorobo Guest

    Default Documents

    Hello
    Several people have stated that they would readly give copies of Doucuments to back and explain their posistion in these matter (copies of documents and tapes) to anyone who asked. Does that offer still stand because if it does I would like to receive them. How would you like to set it up for me to get them from you
    Thank You

  4. #19
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Erie,Pa USA
    Posts
    258
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default



    Yoriki,


    The premies of my research is to demonstrate that Jerry Durant's 'goshin jutsu kyo jujo' is not a style of authentic ( or historical legitimate)Japanese or Okinawan Karate or Budo,such as Aiki Jujutsu,Nihon Jujutsu,Kobudo.The political difference between the different factions such as the 'goshin jutsu international' and the 'goshin jutsu kyo jujo association' and others are incongruous,since all these groups trace there linage back to Jerry Durant.

    To ask qustion of indivdual such as Steve Capella or Jim Fife,would serve no purpose.Because they would just simply proagate the continueing myths and fabricating which have been in existence from the mid 1960's.In the paper written by Tom Green on the life of Jerry Durant,Steve Capella makes several historicaly erroneous remarks.For example,Capella states that"Jerry Durant was the first person given permission to teach Aiki outside of Japan".In one of the video tapes that I have Jim Fife in a interview on Cable TV from Texas,states the configuration of g.j.k.j. by saying that"in the olden days you had to profisient in five arts,they were,Karate,Aikijutsu,Jujutsu,Kobudo and another art" he does not name the fifth art.It seems Jim Fife is lacking of his understanding of history.When he say "in the olden days" which period of history id he refering to,the Heian,Kamakura,Edo,Meiji,Tasisho,Showa.Karate was not taught in Japan intill 1922.I believe that Sokaku Takeda the founder of Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu ,did not start teaching intill around 1898.Which Ryu of Nihon Jujutsu is Fife refering and to which form of Kobudo is he refering to either Ryukyu of Nihon.


    Yoriki I believe you are a member of the Penn State-Behrend M.A club ( Brown belt level?)inwhich several people within the club have seen the video tape of Jerry Durant and his Students.The tape also has the interview with Jerry Durant and examples of real Japanese & Okinawan Karate.I am wonder if you were morally insensed by the racial remarks and obscene,rude behavior of Jerry Durant.

    Can you explain the vast discrepancy between the examples of real Japnese & Okinawan Karate and the extermely poor technical skills exhibited by Jerry Durant and his students on the tape.

    Yoriki can answer one simple question,which of the following three is 'goshin jutsu kyo jujo' based on or derived from which linage:SHURI-TE,NAHA-TE or TOMARI-TE.






    ken allgeier

    [Edited by Ken Allgeier on 09-19-2000 at 05:14 PM]
    " The FUTURE is UNWRITTEN,KNOW YOUR RIGHTS"
    The Clash.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Erie,Pa USA
    Posts
    258
    Likes (received)
    0

    Smile VIDEO TAPES




    To Joseph McDonald,



    E-mail me your home mailing address and I will send you a copy of the tape and other documents at no cost to you.If anybody else wants a copy of the tape and documents I will mail them to you,also at no cost,just send me your home address.





    Thank You,

    ken allgeier
    " The FUTURE is UNWRITTEN,KNOW YOUR RIGHTS"
    The Clash.

  6. #21
    Bad Karma Guest

    Default

    Hey there. I'm in class now so I'll be brief. I don't check here often, only because one of your friends told me to look here because I'd be interested by what you have to say. If you have this much free time that you want to write a book, be my guest. Freedom of speech and all. There are currently 2 BMAC sonkyu's in Erie. Both of us have very little time to spend on the net, and the BMAC has never been listed on the net to my knowledge, so where do you get off talking about us? Just curious. I know I don't know you, and unless Todd's telling you things about the BMAC...

    I just want to ask one thing: is Ken Allgeier that godlike that he has never done anything that anyone else in this world would consider wrong in his life? Never lied, cheated on something, went 1 mile over the speed limit, farted downwind, anything at all? Until you are perfect, no faults, you have no right to judge anyone.

    I don't know, maybe he is perfect and has the right to insult a man who's left this world. I'm not perfect, so I don't. Ok, back to class. Later.




    J. Jacobovitz

  7. #22
    Bad Karma Guest

    Default Now that I have more time...

    OK, now that I have more time here, I'll type more. You'll probably say something about how you're sure I judge people too, and you'd be right. I'm not perfect, I judge people, but that doesn't mean I have the right too. I've lied at least once in my life, as have we all, so by my way of thinking, we're all a group of liars. Is one liar better then another?

    Also, they said no profanity on this site. I've felt that disrespect for the dead is very profrane. They're dead, deal with it, let them rest.

    You're asking your questions to the wrong people as well. I'd say that well more then 3/4ths of martial artists don't know much history of their martial art. From what I've heard about you, you don't understand why they wouldn't. Well, some people aren't into martial arts for the history, they're into it for the martial arts. No, these 2 aren't entirely connected. I can take martial arts and not study the history, and I can study the history and not take the martial arts.

    You say you want answers but you also say you won't talk to the people that have any answers you seek. No matter what your reasons, that just, well, sounds rather odd to me.

    Personally, I don't care about the history much. I gave up on Japanese culture after seeing how sadistic they naturally are as people. If you don't know what I mean, check into general Japanese history or even watch their TV shows. Comedy to them is wrapping towels that sat boiling in a pot of water for an hour around a sleeping guys head. The joys of having over 2000 channels on cable. The sights you see. Yay.

    And now another class is in this lab, so I need to get going. So if you want answers, seek the people that have them, not the people that don't, and to be honest, I don't think there's any more then 5 people that are registered users to this site that know anything about Goshin first hand, and most of that knowledge is probably pretty weak at best.

    What good is posting something on a discussion forum when there's no one to discuss it? I think you're doing this all in the wrong place if you are honestly seeking answers.

    J. Jacobovitz

  8. #23
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    3,324
    Likes (received)
    48

    Default

    Generally, neither hagiography nor character assassination are ideal when writing biography. However, if the rules state that one can only say nice things about the deceased but one's ethics encourage one too be honest, then how would one describe executed serial killer Ted Bundy -- that he was a nice looking young man who had quite a way with the ladies? Likewise, how would we describe Idi Amin (a Ugandan despot notorious for eating human body parts)? Should we say that when young he was a decent boxer, but after he became President-for-Life one had to be careful about accepting his invitation to be part of a State dinner?

    Offhand, I'd say that there are at least six people who post to this board who claim first-hand knowledge of Goshin. Based on what they have posted, I would not hesitate in recommending that people interested in martial art training consider joining classes taught by Mr. McClafferty or the Eastons. However, I would recommend caution before recommending several other instructors mentioned or alluded to.

    Oh -- regarding the Japanese being despicable, I assume the reference is solely to living people? After all, one mustn't speak ill of the dead.

  9. #24
    cxh418 Guest

    Angry

    I am currently a junior in college and I have been training in Goshin Jutsu Kyo Jujo under Behrend Martial Arts Club for about two and a half years. I personally don't know Kyoto Durant at all and I could care less where had he trained. All I know is the fact that this style is the best that I have seen so far in the past six years of my martial arts training. All of my Goshin instructors are the greatest group of people that I have met and they have trained me with their hearts and souls. They have NEVER ASKED for anything in return except our respect and diligence in training. They teach karate for the love of the art and no one will disrespect them.

    Sincerely,
    C. Hongfa
    P.S. Any questions about our Goshin Jutsu please e-mail me at cxh418@psu.edu

  10. #25
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Erie,Pa USA
    Posts
    258
    Likes (received)
    0

    Smile Gustibus non est disputandum,De



    I would like to state,that I have e-mailed my research on 'goshin jutsu' to about 30 differnt indivduals and webpages.I believe it is safe to say that the followers of Jerry Durant's goshin jutsu do have knowledge of this discussion in a public forum.


    I believe that the members of the P.S.B.M.A.C. and other do not understand, is that I was once(unfortunatly) a member of the 'goshin jutsu kyo jujo'and once believed in this system and recived a ,quote-unquote black belt in it.I was vary lucky in the fact that I went to Penn State Unv,main campus and there I joined the Penn State Aikido club ( Shin Shin Toitsu) and soon realized that the Aiki that was taught within the rubric of 'g.j.k.j' was techniclly wrong.One of the Aikido club members ( a graduate student)knew other graduate student from Japan who was a sandan from the Gojukai.When I saw Otake-san training,I can honestly say that was first time I saw what REAL KARATE looked like.I had never seen anybody before who techique was so fast,powerful and clean,my jaw almost literally hit the floor.Throughout the years before this I had seen all the top goshin jutsu people,Durant,Capella,Bohac,Portfillo,Fife,Barton,Medura,ect and none of them could compare to what I witnessed that day at the Penn State gym.I asked( begged is a better word) Otake-San if he could teach me and he agreed,again I can honestly say that I learned more about REAL KARATE in a few weeks,than all the years I spent in goshin jutsu kyo jujo.The reason is that I was learning from a real source and not something made up by a novice in his backyard.Otake-San told me that I was not a black belt according to Japanese standards which I did not want to hear,considering I had a room full of trophys,but it was the inevitable truth.When I returned to Erie,Pa again I was lucky that there was a instructor from the I.S.K.F-J.K.A teaching and I had so start from the bottom and work my way back up .In my opinion I have never seen anybody in Durant's goshin jutsu was technical vary good,they lack strong kihon and do not have or understand body dynamics.



    In my opinion the 'goshin jutsu kyo jujo' is vary much a cult or at least cult like.In the last few years I have shown several people in the Erie,Pa area the two articles by Wayne Muromoto: "Are you in a martial arts cult" and "Real of Fake? is your martial arts school legitimate? , plus Don Cunningham's articale " Dangers of self-proclaimed masters".The all agree that these articles are the essence of 'g.j.k.j.'.


    The followers of Jerry Durant have made him into a historical figure inwhich they ( and Durant himself)had stated many claims about his background.In this context,it is only fair to investigate such claims and to do historical research in the maner as other figures of history such as Abraham Lincoln,Stalin,Gandhi.When a historian states that George Washington did not cut down the cherry tree,does that make him anti-American?The goshin jutsu kyo jujo system has the hallmarks of a cult.


    1. A belief in the false claims of a leader

    2. The group becomes vary defensive when ask question about the groups background.

    3. The group will or can not give evidence to support its claims and will instead attack those who ask question or label them as idiots for doing so.

    4. The members of the group claim to be ignorant of facts and of history,outside of the control of the group.



    As members of the Penn State-Behrend Campus MA club can you explain why it is necessary to have rank testing out in the woods inwhich the public is not allowed to watch?If you are not interested in history,which is a part of all traditional Budo ,Then why claim that 'goshin jutsu kyo jujo' is a authentic form of Karate,Aiki Jujutsu & Kobudo?If you do not like Japanese culture,then do not use Japanese nomenclature.Can you refute any part of my research point by point?And last can you tell which linage from Okinawan is " g j k j " drived from,either-- Shuri-Te,Naha-Te or Tomari-Te.



    _____________________________________


    Yes,Virginia,there is a Santa Claus


    _______________________________________






    ken allgeier





    [Edited by Ken Allgeier on 09-23-2000 at 02:59 AM]
    " The FUTURE is UNWRITTEN,KNOW YOUR RIGHTS"
    The Clash.

  11. #26
    MarkF Guest

    Default

    Hi, BK,
    Welcome to E-budo! You've been here before, haven't you, only BHWC of year, 2000 (Before the Hard Drive Crash)?

    Anyway, Long time no post. If you feel offended, hammer back!

    Mark

    AKA Lee82mark4


  12. #27
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Erie,Pa USA
    Posts
    258
    Likes (received)
    0

    Smile




    Mark,

    There is a "Bad Karma" on 'Budoseek',it is someone from Kentucky who is also a moderator for ' Budoseek'.The " Bad Karma" on this thread is a college at Penn State Behrend campus,same name two different people.






    ken allgeier
    " The FUTURE is UNWRITTEN,KNOW YOUR RIGHTS"
    The Clash.

  13. #28
    Jesse Guest

    Default Goshin jutsu kyu juju members

    They always seem to attack the messenger but never the message. Lots of "Ken bashing" but know one has been able to refute his research. I get the same here in Erie Pa when ever I discuss Kens research. Which I think proves his point that goshin jutsu kyu juju is not Karate,and that anyone claiming it to be so is either lying or misinformed. Many here in Erie pa seem to be under the impression (from Durants influence) that you can make up a bunch of kata out of thin air and call it Karate Do. Is it a eccletic fighting system ? Yes. Is it Karate? No.


    Jesse

  14. #29
    MarkF Guest

    Default

    Hey, Ken,
    Thank you for advising me on who is who in the land of Bad Kharma. To tell you the truth, the one I know at Budoseek is named "Tony," so I was wondering, but since he indicated not coming here much, but had in the past, I thought I would be sure to invite him. He also does jujutsu so that was another clue. Thanks for doing my job for me, as I could easily gone there and asked.

    Sincerely,
    Mark


  15. #30
    Cocteau Guest

    Lightbulb VIDEO clips of Goshin Jutsu on the web

    http://www.duffeeskarate.com
    I think this will be useful to the readers of this thread, since many here may not have had the opporunity to see practicioners of Jerry Durant's goshin jutsu in action. It is always hard to discuss something you haven't seen.
    If you go to the video / arts festival section, there are clips of goshin jutsu practicioners doing katas and self defense techniques at a demo. It's not as clear as some other videotape I have seen (or in the flesh, which I have also seen, many times) but it is quick to obtain.
    Pop some corn, as there is a good bit of footage there.
    Todd Pierce

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. A better textbook? Tri-Nation history book
    By nicojo in forum News from Japan
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 25th May 2005, 17:22
  2. Rape of Nanjing comic publication suspended
    By nicojo in forum News from Japan
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 27th October 2004, 14:17
  3. Geedublya's Resume
    By campsinger in forum Member's Lounge
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 26th August 2003, 20:51

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •