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Thread: Female Students...

  1. #16
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    Default Good Topic

    Hi George,

    Great post, regardless of what styles involed you've hit a universal constant ( whether it applies to women or short people in general ).

    One of the first things I do is take a large opponent
    and have them hold out their fist in front of them to demonstrate their reach and let it touch the nose of a short person that I picked. I have the short person hold out their fist so that they can graphically see just how much the taller persons reach exceeds theirs. After demonstrating this I show how they can close the distance by coming at their opponent diminishing their reach advantage by coming in at 45 degree angles.

    Combine this by teaching them foot stomps so that the taller person will bend over bringing either multiple targets into reach or merely off balancing them for an easy throw.

    Pressure points are great...but their an additional perk...not all opponents react to them as someone already indicated. The eyes are a beautiful strike...hitting one causes both to tear...a good placed strike ( not even a powerful one ) will drop the attacker and leave them for minutes, taking around 5 - 10 min to recover. Showing the vulnerability of the ears. The effects of grabbing skin and twisting it etc...

    Another thing thats fun is taking the female or smaller male and having them do a ( medium power )strike to the midsection of their partner. As the blow is received and they see their opponent unfazed, I have them do another blow. This time the blow is aimed in a down ward motion to the their opponents rear third point ( ie where the third leg of a tripod would be if they had a pole coming out of their but so to speak ). By changing the angle they see how the same blow is neither absorbed by their partner, nor leaving them balanced...either dropping them or making them stumble to regain their balance.

    Showing the weak points and time will gain their confidence. Keep at it. When they do something that works, don't merely say good, but point out why it worked. When they don't succeed again point out why...in the end with determination they'll find it.

    Eric Bookin

  2. #17
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    Thumbs up Ms. Lo

    Greetings,

    Here, Here, TO Ms. Lo! You are right on the money, I could not have said it better myself! Thank you for your keen observations.

    Regards,
    TommyK
    Tom Militello
    "You can't hide on the mats." Terry Dobson sensei.

  3. #18
    Tonya Easton Guest

    Default

    Interesting topic.
    I think anyone, male or female, has on occasion seen a technique demonstrated and thought to themselves...."Yeah right"!
    Until you've been in it long enough to know through experiance, that eventually you learn it and it does work, there are doubts.
    In a non-martial arts setting a woman has an advantage solely because very few women have a background in martial arts or good self defense. Attackers may sometimes expect a basic self defense tactic taught in a 1 day seminar, but rarley does anyone expect the technique that is learned through years of study from a women.
    Personal I love fighting the big guys. I figure if I can take the big ones and especially the big ones with good technique.... I must be doing pretty well.

    I also believe that every fight is based on the individual circumstances and no one going in is always an automatic winner because of size or gender.

    The only way to prove to women that the technique can work for a woman, is to have a woman demonstrate it, ( unless the woman has trust and belief in her sensei and is able to gain the confidence strictly from that). Thats rare.

  4. #19
    dao Guest

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    The bigger they are, the bigger the target and the harder they fall!

    Since we're all different, all students need to be treated differently. However, your expections for your female and male students should be the same.



  5. #20
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    Default Women

    Greetings,

    Women should NOT be treated differently then men, as in the real world the potential mugger, rapist, robber, etc., will make no preferential treatment in the selection of women as their victims.

    Regards,
    TommyK
    Tom Militello
    "You can't hide on the mats." Terry Dobson sensei.

  6. #21
    Thomas Wahl Guest

    Thumbs up

    Hi TommyK!
    Your are 100% right!
    I think that a teacher/trainer/sensei has to do it in that way. No compromises! If a woman won't come to the training anymore because of that? Ok! Also good. I think it's better for a woman not to train than being trained in a wrong manner! Because this can lead her (also a man!) to trouble in a real confrontation!


  7. #22
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    Default

    Originally posted by George Hyde
    [B
    Gassho.
    Hi All,
    I'm new to e-budo, though I have been an infrequent visitor in the past. My question is this; how does one convince a female student that, with good technique, they can be just as powerful and effective as a man?
    [/B]
    It is my considered opinion that the best way to put women in touch with their power is for them to do a model mugging or derivative intensive. The people who teach these are highly trained in techniques specifically designed to empower women. The techniques are simple, most of the emphasis is on the mental aspect, breaking down the barriers they have to acknowledging their own power.

    I have seen the training they do and the results. A woman with no previous martial arts experience can come out with the ability to knock out an attacker twice her size. Anyway, once they know they have that ability they are in a totally different mindset when they train.

    We can accomplish the same thing over time in the dojo but it saves a lot of time and effort to do it this way.
    George S. Ledyard
    Aikido Eastside
    Defensive Tactics Options
    Bellevue, WA

  8. #23
    StevenP Guest

    Default

    I'd like to thank the author for this post. It raises some wonderful questions. And I'd also like to thank Margaret for pointing out the truism that there are no certainties.

    While being firm sometimes proves necessary for all students, I would caution anyone working with insecure students, be the males or females, to yell at them. It might work for some percentage of them, but the ones it doesn't work for will be hurt by the process.

    Frankly, I tell ALL of my students that size DOES matter. I have to have better technique against someone twice my size than I do against someone my own size. I think the question, therefore, comes down to a matter of whether or not there is potential in the technique itself for it to overcome size and strength. For that reason, I typically frown on any technique that looks to me as though it requires strength to be fully applicable, or at all applicable, for that matter.

    Therefore, I suggest pairing your more capable female students with the largest male students you have. Use the size differential as a learning tool. Let the insecure students learn to apply at least one technique against the biggest, strongest students in class. BUT the technique really has to have the capacity to overcome size and strength if applied with sufficient skill and understanding.

    I also suggest that you make a deliberate but subtle effort to praise your more insecure students during class. Don't praise them unwarrantingly so, but praise them when you can. Take advantage of smaller opportunities to lift them up before the class (not literally, of course). I find great power in saying, "Attention! Everyone watch so-and-so perform this technique! s/he's really got it!"

    Hope this helps.

    Peace.

  9. #24
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    Default

    http://www.derbykarateclub.freeserve.co.uk/KAYART.html

    another view: http://www.shikon.com/sr9405d.htm

    [Edited by Joseph Svinth on 09-06-2000 at 12:43 PM]

  10. #25
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    Default Re: Women

    Originally posted by TommyK
    Greetings,

    Women should NOT be treated differently then men, as in the real world the potential mugger, rapist, robber, etc., will make no preferential treatment in the selection of women as their victims.

    Regards,
    TommyK
    I would not agree, there will be a preferential treatment in the selection of women as the victim.
    Women will invariably be chosen as the victim in most mugger and rapist attacks.

    So I feel that in training for form, dependant on style, there should be no differentiation between sexes, but women should be encouraged to use more exact technique in grappling/ close range paired training/ sparring, again dependant on style.
    Women invarialy have smaller hands and feet than men and can theoretically reach pressure points on the human body with as much (if not more) accuracy as larger men.

    In most cases is this not a better focus for women to aim for.
    Steve Williams

    Harrow Branch.
    Shorinji Kempo UK.
    www.ukskf.org




  11. #26
    MarkF Guest

    Default Good post

    Hi, StevenP,
    Just a little business and then you canget back to the discussion. Please sign with yur full name. It is best to use the signature box function in the profile for this.

    Thanks!


    Mark



  12. #27
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    Unhappy

    I'm not sure that women are the "invariable" victims of sexual assault. For example, read the sleaze that I've been posting up in Bad Budo and you'll notice that several of the MA instructors listed there apparently like teenage boys more than women.

    And, while females of a given ethnic group and social class are on average smaller than males of the same group and class, individuals have significant differences...

    [Edited by Joseph Svinth on 09-07-2000 at 04:43 AM]

  13. #28
    efb8th Guest

    Wink

    Hey, Mark!

    I know a surefire way for you to beat your seven-footer. There's a very sensitive nerve nexus in the top of the foot which, when precisely slammed with a forty pound wooden maul, produces such pain that you and all the other little guys in the dojo can push him over when he dances around on the other foot screaming.

    I would suggest it only after trying everything else.


  14. #29
    MarkF Guest

    Thumbs up Playing nice nice.....

    Hi, Ed,

    That is one way and a block of wood does come in handy in a situation such as this one.

    You know how many people (not necessarily martial artists) say the best defense is a good offense? I would try my hardest to be as good a friend as possible, and that would be the defense and practical offense (verbal "judo")? If he isn't wearing a "cup," I can think of other ways of bringing him down to, well, almost my size. I may have to reach a bit, but once the "lock" is cinched, he would be tapping the mat so hard, that he would leave a hole big enough for the State of New Jersey to come through.

  15. #30
    Atalanta316 Guest

    Default

    Hey, all. I'm new to the site, and I'm finding the discussion on women training in the dojo fairly interesting.

    Thank you, to the people who say that one should only see the gi. Not only is it disrespectful for someone to pull and attack or be overly gentle, it's dangerous; while the female student may learn the form and content of the technique, it will be difficult to use it in a real situation, where the energy of the attacker is opposite to what she is used to. She might miss an important twist of the spine or hips, or a movement of the feet that would otherwise be needed if the attacker had intention.

    Looking around our training group, I've noticed that many women get uncomfortable with the idea of working with a bigger person: this may be expressed in nervous laughter, or frustration, or whatever other outlet. I think that intstructors need (and for the most part do) impress the seriousness and the intensity that should be present in the training. For men and women alike, training is about pushing comfort zones (safely and mindfully, but nevertheless, pushing them). I firmly believe that women should go after the biggest guys in the training group, and take advantage of the wonderful training they can give.

    But just to throw out a question, do instructors consider what women can bring to the dojo? While the training shouldn't be easier, or really different in any way, men and women each have unique gifts that perhaps can be emphasized in the dojo. Someone mentioned women's smaller hands and feet, for example, can hit pressure and pain points more easily. What about women's inclination for intuition (if you'll allow me to generalize based on my own experience), or healing, or protection, or even compassion? There's no doubt that women can excel in ninjitsu (look at Natasha Morgan, Abby Allen, and others in your own training groups). Perhaps those more timid, shy women can identify more with those other aspects of ninjitsu, and then get into the rest. An instructor once told me that no one should "throw" an attacker, merely help him find a place on the ground where he can contemplate the result of his actions. Things like that. But its just a thought.

    I'm really enjoying the site.

    Have a good day!

    Maureen O'Donnell

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