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Thread: How Many Kata Are Enough?

  1. #1
    Victor Guest

    Default How Many Kata Are Enough?

    Antonio asks the question,

    “So, what about the folks who claim to know 50, 60 and even up to 100 forms? Even for the die-hard kata afficionados, I see no need to try and learn so many forms and I believe it is a waste of precious time to do so. Especially when there are other important aspects of training that demand attention.”

    Which of course raises the point, one person’s honey is another person’s poison.

    Some systems use kata (or forms), some don’t. As far as I see it nobody is so definitive in their reason either side that the opposing point of view really listens. Likewise I see that individuals who use Kata in their training who are successful and there are those who don’t use kata at all who are likewise successful.

    Styles of arts do follow trends, and what is trendy today may be outmoded thinking to the commonality in 20 years, from a point of view. But your guess is as good as mine what those trends will be. And there will always be those who don’t pay attention to the common herd either.

    So, what I propose is a discussion, solely on how many Kata are enough? If you disbelieve Kata’s worth, that is entirely a different discussion and feel free to start that thread yourself.

    By discussing Kata I’m specifically referring to the Okinawan and Japanese arts derived from Okinawan arts. Or even the Chinese (and other) arts which may have or did (depending on your point of view) influenced the development of the Okinawan arts. I consider the Japanese systems which developed an equal partner, for the original instructors were Okinawan’s, too.

    From my vantage point, most of the Traditional to Modern systems (1900-1960 or so) were developed from individuals who trained with a number of instructors. On occasion they kept to one instructors teachings, other times they incorporated all of all of their instructors teachings, or some of the same.

    These range in systems such as Ueichi-Ryu which traditionally had three forms (with 5 additional forms developed in the modern era), Shorin systems with differing numbers of forms, Goju’s development of 8 empty hand kata, Isshinryu’s 8 empty hand kata, up to Shotokan’s original 15 or eventual +25, and Shito Ryu’s development of at least 50 kata.

    In addition there are those karate systems which have included kobudo in their training syllabus, expanding the number of kata involved.

    This is a very high level analysis on the issue. Reference to works like John Sells ‘Unante’, among other works can provide more accurate details. E-Budo members Like Harry Cook are literally experts in the development of Shotokan and may choose to offer greater insight into their development.

    But it is safe to say there was no clear consensus as to what the ‘right’ answer of how many kata, should be.

    And even when there was an answer, such as Funakoshi Ginchin’s offering of 15 kata in his “Karate-Do Koyhan”, he was still involved in his systems further development of additional forms, too.

    In the traditional groups, if you were/are/or will be a student, it rarely is a question of choice. You do what your instructor tells you. Or you don’t.

    From what I’ve read, students moved between instructors on Okinawa, similar to today. There were likely many reasons, but disagreement with the course curriculum is as likely a reason as many others.

    With so much diversity at Karate’s source of development, how many are enough is likely a very old discussion, and each individual who became an instructor made their own peace with that issue.

    It is safe to say the number of forms doesn’t make a systems worth. But it is also safe to say the number of forms doesn’t detract from a systems capabilities either.

    Kata served many different needs. A textbook of technique (where there were no textbooks), a tool to increase a students capabilities, and an efficient means of developing fighting skills.

    But consider many may have studied more than their system contained. Likewise individuals such as Mabuni, trying his best to incorporate the entire Okinawan experience in his system, found an answer from changing ideas an modifying kata to instead creating his own kata with those ideas he developed.

    Or consider that Taira Shinken may have known over 200 weapons forms, as well as created many of his own. Nobody claims that he passed along his entire knowledge, but he did create several strong lines of students in Okinawa and Japan from what he did teach.

    Other instructors with fewer forms had reputations of changing their forms as time passed. And if the form has many different versions, a case can be made that each is a different kata, regardless of the shared root.

    In fact Okinawa’s kata development often seems to be flowering from shared roots. Consider the 16 or so documented Okinawan Passai Kata, and other kata can make the same claims. Is each different or not?

    Is the answer they were giants in those days, and we must not try to walk in their shoes?

    There is no simple answer. Today information is shared where once it was held close. Instructors open their doors to outsiders, freely. Books, and video tapes also offer new information sources.

    To most persuasively answer the question, it seems that those who have trained in dozens of forms may have pertinent thoughts.

    Now look towards the Chinese systems. I’ve seen accounts of the forms being taught at the Shaolin Temple which were in such number that nobody could learn but a fraction of them. Many of the systems which arose from Shaolin origins, often have more than 100 forms in their curriculum. And in those traditions the forms are considerably longer than their Okinawan counterpart kata.

    But China with its hundreds of martial traditions, runs the entire range from those systems with vast numbers of forms, to those with just three, or even those with none.

    At the same time, the structure of those studies varies very different from those of Okinawa. For example, the student moves through forms, and doesn’t return to them. The forms containing basics aren’t practiced for life, as the basics are repeated over and over in the more advanced forms when you move to them. A very different set of circumstances than those of Okinawa where they spend a lifetime working on the same few forms. In fact in those systems it may be only those who are certified instructors know the entire system. [The source of this came from a friend in Northern Eagle Claw (Faan Tzi Ying Jow Pai) with considerable training in many other Northern styles.]

    So out of whatever set of circumstances there are individuals who do know considerable number of kata or forms.

    Sometimes by design, where the individual sought out such instruction. Sometimes by moving as work dictated and training in the available systems. Sometimes by friends sharing their training, in the days that Traditional Okinawan systems in the USA only did kata, and if you were training with them as a black belt, you were expected to remember whatever they shared with you. And in time the numbers accumulated.

    If you can learn 50 or 100 kata, you do. And if you can’t you don’t.

    Actually as many of the Okinawan kata share a similar vocabulary of technique, it’s often not as difficult as it sounds. Perhaps you learn 3 different Seisan kata, 3 Kusanku Kata, 2 Chinto Kata, and so forth. Eventually you grasp their differences and only periodic practice keeps them fresh in your memory. So 30 may roll into 90 without great difficulty. In such cases one might then concentrate on the very advanced forms (complexity and length).

    Likely there are schools who have 70 kata workouts, but I don’t see that as the goal of such knowledge.

    There are those who are into research into the structure and nature of the Okinawan arts. For them vast kata studies offer great vistas of the different systems.

    Then there are those who are Senior Instructors, and wish to create individual curricula for their advanced students. Not to teach out their knowledge, but to build as strong a system of training for that individual as possible. They understand different forms develop different energy and techniques. Then large pools of forms give them choices that not having those forms at hand doesn’t offer.

    There are those who wish to develop their students core system to understand how to counter the trends of different schools of training. (Similar to football teams watching game films, or a prize fighter observing the opponents previous fights on film.) By teaching the students forms from those traditions, they can work on directly countering those systems tendencies. Which of course is just a tool for other studies.

    While any finite number of kata have innumerable applications within them, likewise any finite number of kata have a finite number of techniques. Having a vast pool of other kata on tap allows you to explore other movement potential not in the core system.

    Then there’s keeping things fresh for a lifetime. With a vast pool of kata, you can periodically have students (or even the instructor for that matter) throw out kata and replace them with new ones. This forces the advancing student to work harder, keep learning and aware, and keep their kata alive. Not just running through the same old kata just one more time.

    And of course you may be doing so simply cause Sensei said to do so.

    This is not meant to be as total defense for deep kata study. I can make just as sound a case that its not necessary and that I can find everything in Sanchin kata to take apart the rest too.

    But I believe its not a matter of what is the right answer. Its just a case of what the answer is for you.

    If you can you do, and you don’t need anybody else’s justification for your actions.

    If you don’t, you don’t. If your practices fulfill you then fine.

    As for myself, I trained many different places, and nobody ever cared about my other studies, only about what they were teaching me.

    They also made a point that ‘You have a Black Belt around your waist. If you’re wearing that, you don’t have the right to say you can’t do something.’

    So good or bad, right or wrong I studied whatever I was presented.

    I guess I’ve learn close to 200 kata, forms or whatever, but of course I’ve only been training 28 years. Can I run all of them? No, nor do I wish to try. But I can pull most of them up from memory if not in training, or from my notes. And use them to do all of the above.

    [BTW among my senior instructors one of them runs about 60-80 forms in his traditions, another has studied multiple hundreds in the Chinese traditions, and yet another, just using the 8 Isshinryu empty hand kata does thousands of applications from those eight forms. I very strongly consider myself a very junior student to their abilities at every level.]

    Do I teach them all? No. My core curricula including Isshinryu is about 40 kata, but also in addition I teach the Yang 108 Tai Chi Chaun form and am a student of the Wu Tai Chi Chaun form, for their martial benefits.

    BTW, my advanced classes are much more than kata studies. Instead we focus far deeper into the application potential of kata technique and other involved two person drills in various arts.

    But as I said, there are those who do, and there are those who don’t.

    Sincerely,

    Victor Smith
    Bushi No Te Isshinryu

  2. #2
    Bustillo, A. Guest

    Default

    Victor,

    Good idea starting a separate thread on this topic.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but I understand it was not so much that Gichin Funakoshi believed in trying to learn a long list of katas but there were several reasons why he chose to introduce so many forms to Japan.

    Having a familiarity with a myriad of forms is one thing, yet claiming to 'know' 60 or more...I doubt it.
    Whether it is Kata or individual techniques, practicing, learning and making a few good ones 'yours' should be more important.

  3. #3
    Victor Guest

    Default

    Hi Antonio,

    Regardling Funakoshi Sensei's, and the JKA's reasons, I'd have to actually dig through Harry Cooks vast and great work on the development of Shotokan. All I can recall at this time is they did increase the number of forms.

    I do seem to recall reading that perhaps it was influcenced by Mabuni Sensei's development of Shito-ryu, too.

    I agree with you, excellence in execution is the goal, and it is impossible to do so simultaneously in multiple 10's of forms.

    But there is no reason you can't switch from form to form either as time passes. My own black belt group have been with me 15+ years, and as time passes have had many form studies, but on a weekly basis, we tend to focus on a very few of them at any time. And I tend to direct different students towards different forms studies.

    On the other hand, one's capabilities are often greater than we wish.

    My friend Ernest Rothrock, underwent the Master Instructor testing in Northern Eagle Claw. A part of the test required a very high level execution, with no mistakes or hesitation to remember their forms for a random selection of 25 out of 50 of their curricula (which totally nears 100 forms).

    For three years he spent the better part of his time focusing on those 50 forms, and the length of some of them is so incredible it's difficult to compare to the Okinawan/Japanese arts at all. Then as fate had it he first drew Lin Kuen or 50 rows of technique, their longest form (roughly the equivalent of the entire Okinawan kata curricula IMVHO).

    He did succeed that and the rest, but afterwards for several days really couldn't talk because of the mental drain the preparation and test had taken on him.

    Of coruse he went through exceptional effort and training to do so, and anyone not putting forth the same effort could not reasonably hope to make similar efforts.

    I would accpet it is possible, but I would also accpet there are very few who would pay such a price, epsecially as Kata or forms are still only a piece of the training potnetial to address.

    I do look forward to others opinions, on this. This concept is one area which defines our differing arts.

    Victor Smith
    Bushi No Te Isshinryu

  4. #4
    Bustillo, A. Guest

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    Victor,

    You mentioned Mr. cook's book, excellent reference.
    However I think you misunderstood me and perhaps it was my fault for not making it clear. When I mentioned G. Funakoshi and his reasons for introducing so many forms to Japan, I meant pre-JKA days. For the most part, Okinawan instructors emphasized that only a few forms were necessary. And, perhaps Funakoshi thought along the same lines.

    I'll let others and Mr. Cook expand on that issue.


    Thanks

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    For the most part, I don't think kata really teaches fighting technique, they teach artistic movement grace, agility and body control for the expression of relaxed hitting power. They contain fighting techniques as a reminder of them and some hint as to how to use them but fighting is so fluid and unpredictable, kata can't really teach it.

    Therefore, one kata is as good as another to learn the expressions of power and movement germane to the style you are practicing. From this pov, learning a new kata can keep the training fresh, the mind involved and your expression of the style updated.

    All kata are good, so there is no limit on learning them!

    In my years of training since 1972 I've learned over 60 kata, but many of them were "repeats" of other kata. Sometimes the changes had an interesting move so I switched to the new one, sometimes not. I did not however, try to learn all 80 some kata available to me to become a walking kata encyclopedia as some of my peers did.

    Right now I can go out on the floor and perform correctly and with some modicum of focus just over 50 kata...well some of the newer ones might be a little shaky,
    "Fear, not compassion, restrains the wicked."

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    Default Re: How Many Kata Are Enough?

    Originally posted by Victor
    Antonio asks the question,

    ...

    But consider many may have studied more than their system contained. Likewise individuals such as Mabuni, trying his best to incorporate the entire Okinawan experience in his system, found an answer from changing ideas an modifying kata to instead creating his own kata with those ideas he developed.

    ...

    Sincerely,

    Victor Smith
    Bushi No Te Isshinryu
    I was working out with a Goju older brother one weekend. My friend has been working Goju well over 30 now but there was a period that he lived in Chicago and worked Shito Ryu under John Nanay. My friend was showing me the Shito Ryu version of Nepai, I believe it is called Nipaipo. I told him "I don't know about Shito Ryu any system with 40 or 50 kata is to much a load for me. I have hard enough time trying to master the 14 I have in my school." He told me that the purpose of all the kata was not so that the practicioner would have to learn all of them. He told me that Mabuni desired to catalogue all the forms so they would not be lost. Shito Ryu was to be like this giant library where practicioners could check what books they wanted to study from. If you wanted to learn Nepai it was there if you wanted to learned Paisai it was there if you wanted to study Suparinpei it was there. Perhaps Rob or some other Shito Ryu practicioners will comment.
    Ed Boyd

  7. #7
    Zoyashi Guest

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    In my honest opinion...
    Zero.
    The best fighters in the world (MMA's) don't learn any, and anyone who thinks they aren't the best is either dreaming or applying much wishful thinking.
    Now, of course, that's not Karate, so if the question is "How many kata should one learn to be proficient in their style of karate?" The answer to that will depend from style to style and sensei to sensei. Personally, I think 4-6 is a good number, although this is fewer than most styles have. This is because of the principles of redundancy. the first five Heian/Pinan are all chunks of Kusanku, so once you've learned Kusanku you should probably focus on that instead of doing Pinan 1-5. I found that four or five kata drilled regularly and broken down into bunkai was more useful than running through all 18 forms I learned. Now, some people just love kata, and I say for them, the more the merrier, as long as they realize he limitations of kata training.

    Josh Gepner.

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    Question How much is enough?

    In my honest opinion...
    Zero.
    The best fighters in the world (MMA's) don't learn any, and anyone who thinks they aren't the best is either dreaming or applying much wishful thinking.
    Well said Josh. I myself learned about twenty. There are some good self defense techniques but we all know them without necessarily doing kata.
    For the most part, I don't think kata really teaches fighting technique, they teach artistic movement grace, agility and body control for the expression of relaxed hitting power. They contain fighting techniques as a reminder of them and some hint as to how to use them but fighting is so fluid and unpredictable, kata can't really teach it.
    I respect that Ted, but didn't you say that your fighting proficiency came about from strictly kata training? I thought I read that recently. But everytime the kata argument comes along, well you know.
    I personally think that it's very difficult to learn sixty, eighty or so completely different kata. Maybe different versions of the same kata, ok, but eighty different kata? I don't think you can master any of them. Furthermore, if you're doing hojo undo, bunkai and kumite, I don't know where you would find the time to learn and/or train eighty kata. When I would run through my kata routine, which consisted of about twelve to fifteen, (depending if I did the taikyokus) it would take quite a while and much sweat to run through them and do hojo undo.
    Manny Salazar
    Submisson Sabaki

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    'If, by the time you reach Shodan, you know one kata well, then you have succeeded' (source forgotten)

    I currently 'know' about a dozen karate kata's, but cannot in honesty say that I know any of them 'well', although it is slowly but surely coming to me.

    I would settle for knowing Seiunchin (sp) well, and never learning any more, but thats (at this time) just an artistic ideal...I think that it is one of the most visually attractive Goju katas that I have ever seen (at least when it's performed by someone other than me!)
    Ron Rompen
    Goju Ryu
    Kitchener, Ont

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    Default Re: Re: How Many Kata Are Enough?

    Originally posted by CEB


    I was working out with a Goju older brother one weekend. My friend has been working Goju well over 30 now but there was a period that he lived in Chicago and worked Shito Ryu under John Nanay.



    John's a Shorin Ryu practitioner, and a good one too! He does run some shito ryu kata though, and is pretty good at them, I must say!


    He told me that the purpose of all the kata was not so that the practicioner would have to learn all of them. He told me that Mabuni desired to catalogue all the forms so they would not be lost. Shito Ryu was to be like this giant library where practicioners could check what books they wanted to study from. If you wanted to learn Nepai it was there if you wanted to learned Paisai it was there if you wanted to study Suparinpei it was there. Perhaps Rob or some other Shito Ryu practicioners will comment.
    You said it quite well. That's my understanding. Mr. Mabuni was a sort of archivist and preservationist. The style isn't a synthesis of Higaonna and Itosu's methods, but it strives to preserve them intact within the system. The Higaonna kei kata of shito ryu are to be performed differently than the Itosu kei kata. The Higaonna kei should emphasize breathing, circular movement, dynamic tension, etc. while the Itosu kei kata should have a much lighter feel to them. So, while we have all of the different kata, the performance of them doesn't reflect a "blend", but strives to preserve them independently.



    Rob

  11. #11
    Bustillo, A. Guest

    Default 60+ kata club; full time job

    I trained katas for years. Yet, I realized it was over-rated and not necessary to learn self-defense. Therefore, I chose to dedicate my time and effort on other drills and aspects of training.

    Even so, for those members of the 60+ kata club...where do you find the time?

    Solo kata training.
    Let's use a rough estimate and take 30 katas. Granted you don't do all the forms every session. Nevertheless, things don't add up.

    Let's just say it takes approximately two minutes to go through each form, catch your breath, pause and reset for the next. Running through 30 forms in one training session, 1 hour.--It will probably take longer--- That is one hour dedicated to going through 30 individual katas one time each. To maintain a reasonable level of proficiency takes more than going through each form one time per session.

    Many folks believe kata has many benefits. Perhaps.
    However, it neither improve timing, power nor your reflexes and you don't experince any type of contact. You need other drills to balance the training if you are concerned about being well-roundeded.

    That leaves how much time for the following; heavy bag work, partner drills, pad work, sparring, endurance exercises, weight training, makiwara, conditioning, body toughening and so on.

    So, even if you believe in kata training, I say trying to learn so many is counterproductive.

    Do the math.

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    The desire to increase the number of kata almost certainly finds its origin in Itosu who collected kata from a number of sources and created some new ones. This trend was continued by his students Gichin Funakoshi and Kenwa Mabuni. A similar process was at work in Okinawan weapons where Moden Yabiku and his follower Shinken Taira collected kata, training methods etc from a wide variety of sources to create a kind of standardised Okinawan kobu-jutsu.
    In the case of those Okinawans who took karate to Japan this process may have been unconsciously or perhaps consciously influenced by the growth of judo and kendo. Both methods essentially evolved by fusing elements from a number of classical ryu with some ideas taken from western sporting and military methods. Gichin Funakoshi almost certainly wanted to do for karate what Kano had done for ju-jutsu, hence the need to make use of kata which represented different streams of Okinawan karate.
    The question was asked how many kata are needed. Of course we must ask “needed for what?’. If the purpose is simply to teach basic techniques then a single kata such as Kankudai should be enough. A logical approach would be to teach the 5 Heians/Pinans as intermediate steps, then teach Kankudai as a kind of summary of the techniques.
    However if the intent is to teach something more than kihon or exercise more kata are required. Hector mentioned on another topic (“Chambers”) that stimulating the imagination is critical to develop effective skill. Learning and analysing more kata is an effective way to stimulate a student’s imagination. The number of kata depends on the personality of the student. A convergent thinker probably requires less than a divergent thinker. Of course at the end of the day the kata are presenting a relatively small amount of information, but by varying how that material is presented the student’s imagination can be stimulated in many ways. Please note that I am not advocating acquiring kata simply as a collector - the kata must serve as a base for further investigation, the development of which is structured by ideas such as riai. Antonio mentioned the importance of partner drills, conditioning/body toughening etc. For myself it is the kata that provide the data to structure these drills, and I regard this kind of training as part of kata, ie. in the same way that the traditional Japanese ryu used short two-man kata to learn, develop and improve their skills with lethal edged (and other) weapons. I also think you need to do a lot of training actually hitting things such as pads, bags, makiwara etc. This is kihon for black belts if you like, and lifting heavy objects to develop strength so that when you apply the locks, throws and takedowns found in the kata you will be able to inflict pain on the recipient of your attentions. Again I see this as part of kata training.
    Yours,
    Harry Cook
    Yours,
    Harry Cook
    Yours,
    Harry Cook

  13. #13
    Victor Guest

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    Hi Antonio,

    Several quick comments.

    "for those members of the 60+ kata club...where do you find the time?"

    There are different answers for this. A professional instuctor who studies hundredsd of Chinese forms, actually spends several hours daily running different kata groupings for each day of the week.

    There are some schools who concentrate on 30+ kata workouts.

    For myself, I have a different answer. Kata learning focuses on one kata at a time, but kata maintenance is a different activity. If one does know the kata, periodic light practice to keep it fresh in the mind is often enough and rotating focus on individual kata or groups of kata to keep high level skill fresh is sufficent. Then rotating the current kata focus, keeps you alive in execution and always working to develop technique higher. As a great deal of kata technique is redundant from form to form, practicing several kata, are also re-inforcing those on light schdules.


    "Many folks believe kata has many benefits. Perhaps. However, it neither improve timing, power nor your reflexes and you don't experince any type of contact. You need other drills to balance the training if you are concerned about being well-roundeded. "

    I agree with the need for additional drills, and do see choice of kata in training a tool for focus of study activities as well as simple practice.

    I don't agree that kata can't improve timing, power or reflexes. It just depends on what one considers kata practice.

    I don't see kata as do this and that's that.

    Kata can be very alive, with timing changes across the kata or in individual sections. Power is as much a function of technique as it is shere muscle mass. Improving your technique execution improves the power transmisson capability. Kata can be integral in doing this, if you approach kata from that perspective. Likewise kata can enhance reflex ability if timing execution chagnes are approached realistically.

    I don't maintain kata are absoultely necessry, or the only tool involved, but they are a tool and if you explore their potential, they can offer many choices.

    The issue of kata, does reside in choices of inidvidual schools.

    Victor Smith
    Bushi No Te Isshinryu

  14. #14
    Michael Clarke Guest

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    Hi All,
    Like Harry said, "Needed for what?"
    I think a few people on this thread see kata as just some exersise done over and over again in thin air, but that is only one way to train kata when you don't have a training partner, or something to work with like a heavy bag etc...

    Someone said the goal of kata is to do them well without mistakes, and yet someone else said they don't teach how to fight.
    I've yet to see any system that can teach a person how to fight, and I'd add that if you have to be taught it, you are not likely to be that good at it.

    Miyagi Chojun sensei (goju-ryu) only taught his students sanchin and then one (maybe two) other kata. The other kata he taught depended on the students build and temperament, health etc... there was no advanced kata and beginners kata. It was only after WW2 that he began to teach all the kata to his students, and this was said to be because he feared the system might die out if he didn't. At the time he died there were no more than a handfull of students in Okinawa, so it was not an unreasonable fear.

    The kata need to be studied ,not just practised, in order to understand the meanings in them. They are the rosetta (sp) stone of karate and sure,if you don't have the ability to see into the form they are in deed nothing more than pretty patterns.

    People would do well to remember that there is no such thing as advanced karate technique, only people who have advanced abilities. Likewise there is no such thing as basic karate either, only people with a basic understanding of what it is their doing.

    I asked Kanazawa sensei from shotokan how come there are more kata in that system now than the 15 Funakoshi sensei taught? He said he wasn't sure but maybe it was because people wanted to look good and so started doing 'new' kata? Not much of a reason to do kata if you ask me.

    Just before I take off and leave you all to it, I'm never sure why those who advocate training in karate without studying bother to train in karate at all? If fighting is all you want, why not just go and fight?

    Just asking.

    Peace and love,

    Mike Clarke.

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    Goju Man wrote:
    I respect that Ted, but didn't you say that your fighting proficiency came about from strictly kata training? I thought I read that recently.
    Well, I really meant it did not come from sparring! A sparring match for me was the guy moving toward me, scoring a point, doing it twice or three times and I go sit down for the rest of the night. This lasted for 5 years or so. I was stiff and unaware of what my body was really doing.

    But I was also drilling like crazy, we did walking drills and standing drills for hours as well as kata. At the end of 6-7 years I could still not spar well but my job moved me into dealing with angry and aggressive criminally inclined teens who I had to manage physically on a daily basis. I never got hit or kicked (avoided or blocked every one), I got bit once, I never hit anyone (but I kicked the wind out of one who scared me too much) so I used arm bars etc and weight control / off balancing.

    So I contend that kata, not sparring, helped me to move into a fighting expression of my karate, but I must admit I can't deny the drilling must have had its part.

    The main point was the give and take of sparring, the moving in and out, the looking for and taking advantage of openings all left me behind but the approach kata takes, look at your probelm, turn towards it, move in and overwhelm it, all were what I needed when some 185 lb teen started to throw his desk around the room at the other kids.
    "Fear, not compassion, restrains the wicked."

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