Ouano

[Bustillo, A.]

I think we need a change of pace from the political arguments and jabs.

I would like to mention a new glove on the market called Ouano. I found them to be excellent for hitting the bag, pads, sparring and ground & pound.

In the past I have used the Fairtex grappling glove and the Chuck Norris grappling glove. I wouldn't recommend the Fairtex but the Chuck Norris glove was excellent.

It would be of interest to know which glove do most schools use for training? Do you use one glove or different gloves for different types of training?

[Rogier]

do you have a link to a website?

[Bustillo, A.]

Originally posted by Rogier
do you have a link to a website?

Try,

www.ouano.com

They have three gloves listed. The one I mention is first on the list.

[hector gomez]

Antonio,

I own the early norris model grappling gloves very similar to the harrinberg model glove,the thing I noticed about training with 4 oz grappling gloves is that the striking should definitely be controlled to the head.

The advantages of these types of gloves are a)you can combine striking along with takedowns and ground grappling b)they are not bulky like boxing gloves so it gives you a more natural feel for grappling.

The only drawback is you can't bang like you can with boxing gloves.
Gloves in the 4 to 6 ounce category probably require some sort of bogu head gear in order to train headshots without injury
to the head.

Traditional boxing headgear would not protect against a 4 or 6 ounce glove the way bogugear does,but anytype of headgear would be bulky on the ground in a grappling situation anyway.


I personaly like training with controlled headshots while wearing grappling gloves therefore the ground aspect becomes more realistic without the bulky headgear.

If I really want to train hard contact with headshots then training with boxing gloves and boxing headgear is the way to go for me.


Hector Gomez

[n2shotokai]

I am curious as to which gloves people use for what purposes.

Although we never use gloves for kumite, we do have a new heavy bag that is hard as a rock. I have always felt a good way to invite early arthritis is to bang away at an object with your knuckles.

Contemplating bag gloves,
Steve Beale

[hector gomez]

Hi steve,

I can really only speak for myself and the way I like to train,as I realize alot of practicioners on this forum have their own methods,formulas and theories on training.

If one is doing kumite with no gloves at all,I would imagin that the head shots are being controled of pulled upon impact.I cannot conceive
people following thru with headshots and no gloves.

I decided a long time ago that I did not want to practice controlling or pulling any punches or kicks as this leads to a unrealistic view of what really transpires in a continuos contact fight.


Controlling a punch never seemed practical to me as both the attacker and the defender tend to develop a false sense of who is really getting the upper hand in combat along with bad habbits that start being developed by both practicioners.

Most of the time training without gloves equals controlled headshots and rightfuly so because of possible injury but this leads to stopping any continuation of combination attacks for fear of following thru so training becomes similar to a tournament were fighters train like roosters in a cock fight loading their weopons & coiling their springs while projecting foward only to stop after the initial attack.This leads to a real big dilema the continuation after the first attack which is very critical in a fight becomes nonexistent.



It's not so much that I don't understand the concept of kime(focus)along with the damage that a well placed shot can have on an opponent.
The kime concept is a great theory but in reality it is not a high percentage reality in a contact fight that is not being prematurely stopped for unrealistic acknwoledegements.


Hector Gomez

[hector gomez]

Sorry steve,

I just had a relapse there and got sidetracked,anyway bag gloves would be a great idea for hitting the heavy bag.

To glove or not to glove,I would also like to hear the pro or cons for both methods of training.

Hector Gomez

[n2shotokai]

Any recommendations brand / model for bag gloves.

We do not use gloves for kumite as we focus on control. Close, touch, tap, 1/4" punch or perhaps ........ To each their own philosophy. We spend considerable training time developing ki / power. We do not participate in sport karate. I would not dream of hitting someone in kumite with gloves, padding etc. I am not saying one is better, only a different approach / philosophy.

Steve Beale

[elara]

My school as a group:
During sparring (free, 1,3,5-step, etc), We tend not to use gloves, opting for controlled shots. On the striking equipment (bags, pads, makiwara) we almost never use gloves.
Recently we have been looking into sweeps a bit more and have used shin pads (sweeper - pad on shin, receiver - pad on calf) on some distancing/control exercises.
That's in class at least - I don't know what people do on their own...

On my own:
I don't often go 'all out' on another body - about once a year w/a friend (opinions - is this too little? too much?). Depending on the rules we're using, we'll either use some combination of 16oz gloves + shin pads or no pads at all, ie:
boxing - gloves
kickboxing - gloves + shin pads
standing randori - no pads
grappling - no pads
mixed - gloves + shin pads


All with mouthpieces.

I may have to go out and get a pair of those light-weight gloves Hector mentioned.

Cheers

[CEB]

Originally posted by Bustillo, A.
...
It would be of interest to know which glove do most schools use for training? Do you use one glove or different gloves for different types of training?

We use White cotton cloth marshmellow lookin' hand pads. They provide some fist protection and still allow you to grab your partner. Best part is I think we get them from Century for about 5 bucks a pair.

My heavy bag gloves are Everlast. They are a pretty red color and cost less around $20 I think , maybe $25. They work well enough for me and are available at local sporting good stores. I hit the bag with and without gloves. I get a better workout (more sweat) with gloves than I do without. Sometimes I hit a water filled bag. The gloves don't seem necessary at all. The bag as a soft as a baby's bottom and the surface is kind to the hands but I still feel like I get a better workout with the big red bag gloves. I don't know exactly why, I don't think about it I just do it. I've never had boxing lessons I probably learned more boxing talking to Hector and Antonio on the net than anywhere else. Personally I don't really like the water bag. I don't know why I guess I am old fashioned.

My bags at home are 1) an old Everlast canvas bag. Gloves are good if you are going to hit it a long time because the canvas is rough on the skin, especially beautiful smooth delicate skin like mine. 2) a vinyl bag which is supposed to be an 80 lbs bag but mine is full of shelled corn so it is pretty heavy.

[tamashi]

Anyone deal with these guys?
http://www.immortal-usa.com/static/immortal_intro.html

they have all leather gear, and decent prices.

I have only bought Thai Pads from them, but they were good.

they have a page full of gloves as well.

regards,

[Bustillo, A.]

Pulling punches and kicks all the time is counterproductive. It creates bad habits. I agree what Hector G. that it gives a false sense of security. Furthermore, this has nothing to do with sport or not. It has to do with realistic training methods.

During certain types of deills, I can understand pulled punches without contact. Yet, to step it up you should try and land a few shots to see how well that drill really works.

Controlled punches where you try and hit your partner without trying to lay him out works great too. And this is where the different types of gloves come in to play.

The well-padded boxing gloves allow for more contact, yet it restricts grabbing and other maneuvers.

The thin grappling type gloves, with exposed fingers, like the Ouano, Chuck Norris and the other gloves several of you have mentioned does not restrict the fighters if they decide to incorporate grabbing, pulling with one arm and grappling. However, the impact is tremendous if you unleash hard shots. In this case, headgear with face protection is recommended. And even then, with the thin gloves, you don't need to strike with full force for your partner to feel considerable impact.

In addition, most of the aforementioned exposed finger gloves can be used for bag training. It is personal choice, but on canvas bags I do not use gloves or wraps. Vinyl and leather heavy bags, the main reason I use gloves is because of how slippery it becomes due to sweat.

[hector gomez]

A big misconception associated with boxing gloves or anytype of contact glove is the all out "let's kill eachother mentality" syndrome.

Contact is part of the game and becoming familiar with some sort of contact goes a long way in helping fighters become acustomed to the realities of contact fighting.

A sparring session is just that,sparring to execute techniques properly with an obvios intent to make contact but even this type of training should not be done with the actual intent of knocking someone out,a good instructor/coach should oversee most of any contact training and never let practicioners sparr with bad intentions or inproper mechanics.

Even thou techniques are being controlled getting use to this actual penetration point upon impact gets the body senses more in tune for the actual shock of contact,something everyone that plans to be involved with anytype of contact fighting should get use too.


Making contact with solid training objects,heavy bags,makiwara,mitts,pads,etc is all fine but making the contact with a live moving target should be a very important part of training even if it is somewhat controlled for safety reasons.

Hector Gomez

[Bustillo, A.]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by hector gomez
[B]
Contact is part of the game and becoming familiar with some sort of contact goes a long way in helping fighters become acustomed to the realities of contact fighting.

Making contact with solid training objects,heavy bags,makiwara,mitts,pads,etc is all fine but making the contact with a live moving target should be a very important part of training even if it is somewhat controlled for safety reasons.



[A.B. responds,]

Hecor Gomez,

Osu
(as used when we trained Shotokan with Sugimoto.)

[CEB]

Let say some karate people are considering using boxing style protective gear for the first time. I have my Ringside catalog that Hector told me to get and there are many options when it comes to purchasing this kind of training gear. What would be some general guidelines people would want to follow when it comes to purchasing some this gear?


What size gloves would generally workout best for starters. (14oz., 16oz., 18oz.) ?

Are certain types of headgear better or is anything that is competion approved an adequate provider of protection?

Since karate people going to want to use kicks are the ribs protectors that boxers use for sparring when recovering from injuries adequate protection against kick to the body? In case there are people who want practice body contact who are not used to it. We practice considerable body contact and it isn't much an issue with us. That is how we have always trained, We do try to limit the degree of head contact (accidents happen but they are rare) but the body and upper legs are fair game for anyone 4th kyu or above.( just a general guideline, all other things being equal. For instance I wouldn't thump an 110 lb woman to the body no matter what her rank is because 100 pound weight advantage matters and women are just too fragile for that sort of thing anyway ). We don't let beginners kick each other in the legs, just the way it has always been since the dojo started (1967).

Are there any other issues concerning gear that people should consider?

Thanks everyone for the good conversation.