Jutsu or Jitsu?

[rupert]

Most Japanese sites use the term jutsu as opposed to jitsu in their English pages. Jutsu is the correct way to romanise it, in fact, jitsu has a completely different meaning. Many foreign schools still use Jitsu, perhaps because that's the way it was first transcribed. Some, have changed to Jutsu. I am also puzzled wh ysome use hyphen, I mean, you rarely see Ju-do but Ju-jitsu is quite common. Surely, Jujutsu is correct. Why do so many schools stick with -jitsu anyway?

Rupert Atkinson

[Daniel Lee]

Rupert,

I guess the lack of solidarity in romanisation of Japanese (both by Japanese nationals and others) when these words were first borrowed brought all of this on - and it stuck At least nowadays the Japanese Language Council has prescribed one system of romanization.

I think the hyphen is probably used to show an awareness of kanji/moraic units, but it does look kinda funny. At least it's better than that 80s art NIN-JU-KA that claimed to teach NINjutsu, JUjutsu and KArate - too bad the kanji is KARA, not KA!

In the UK, there's a (fairly big) jujutsu federation called "the Jitsu Foundation". What's more, on all their websites, they constantly refer to their art as plain ol' "Jitsu" (no "Ju" involved).

What I find particularly strange is that in all other respects they are far more "traditional" than the organisation I train with - they use Japanese tech names, wear Hakamas at black belt, include a lot of (Japanese) weapon work.

This isn't meant to be a criticism of TJF, but that "Jitsu" thing just feels... kinda weird.

If I recall correctly, the most popular romanisation before the Gracies came along was "Jiu-Jitsu" - that's always how I remember seeing it writen as a kid. Nowadays that particualr spelling seems pretty much reserved for BJJ.

Cheers,

Mike

[Budoka 34]

Mike:

Shinto Yoshin ryu still uses the "Jiu-jitsu" spelling also.

[MarkF]

Rorion Gracie (or one of the youngsters) copyrighted Gracie Jiu Jitsu so it stays and properly separtes it from all JMA martial arts because it isn't Japanese.

The Japanese use the jujitsu spelling as well in some organizations to this day.

Judo was written as Jiu-do, jiudo, jyu-do or jyudo, and jiu jitsu pretty much until the 1950s, perhaps into the early sixties. In older days, the original judo, Jikishin ryu, judo was probably written jiu no michi or yawara no michi, all correct pronunciations of judo kanji.

The funny thing is that when I started judo training in 1963 we received handouts which "jujutsu" was given a short history and it was spelled just as I did, IOW, correctly. I didn't even notice the difference until someone opened a "jujitsu" dojo in 1964 nearby my dojo.

Today, I've seen all sorts of spelling of judo which is supposed to recognize a newer, more correct way of spelling it, eg, juudoo and judoo or jiudou. You will find the old spellings in the old books on judo or Kano jiu jitsu or Kodokan ryu jiu jitsu.

The hyphen seems to be there to make sure words or terms are properly separated. Probably, simple ju jutsu would be fine.


Anyway, even those in Japan who spell it jujitsu should probably know better, as it doesn't mean that being Japanese means you know everything about one's own language or culture. How many spell well in their native tongue such as English, always getting it right? It would seem that those who learn it as a second language spell better than natives.
*****

I should end it here so I don't get caught. I've all ready caught a number or errors and I'm finishing my third proof read. I know Tony Kehoe (kimpatsu) will come trolling for misspellings any time now.


Mark

[ghp]

Technique; art

The real problem between jitsu and jutsu [meaning "technique; art"] is in the way these two words sound if you use a Japanese accent. But let's not say "Japanese accent" because too many Westerners will then tighten up their eyes and give a vaudvillian, clipped, pseudo-Japanese accent. Instead, let's use a modified Italian accent which actually is a closer approximation.

In English we Americans pronounce the romanized spelling "jutsu" as "Juht-zoo". However, the Japanese prono unce this same romanization as "jewtz" [almost a "jitz" with a soft "i" sound]. Sometimes they even vocalize the "almost-silent" ~u ending.

When hearing the proper Japanese/"modified Italian" pronunciation complete with the vocalized ~u ending, "jutsu" sounds like "jitsu" to we Americans. Therefore, early romanization was "jitsu."

Truth; reality

The kanji for "truth" is romanized as "jitsu". Again, to we Americans, it looks the same as I described above. However, when you hear a Japanese read this kanji and romanization, it will sound like "jee-tzu" [a long "e" sound]. So when you hear a Japanese say, "Jitsu wa ..." he/she is saying, "in actuality/truthfully/honestly speaking..."

Oops ... looks like I've muddied up the waters again.

Regards,
Guy

[Jim London]

This Kanji was posted on another thread on e-budo as the one for Jitsu=truth.

It would help me, as I do not speak Japanese, if someone would post some kanji for jujutsu.

Thanks
Jim London

[rupert]

Hope these kanji come out OK.

êõâú - can't seem to make them any bigger.

Rupert Atkinson

[Jim London]

Sorry Rupert,

My browser didnt show those characters as Kanji. Do you have a GIF or JPEG?

I know every Kanji has other translations. What is the broader translation of ju-jutsu?

Thanks
Jim London

[tommysella]

Jim,

Jutsu have the following tranlations: art, technique, skill, means, trick, resources or magic

Regards,
Tommy

[Neil Hawkins]

Here is jujutsu in kanji...

Regards

Neil

[Jim London]

Thanks Neil, Tommy.

I have heard the other translations, but that is the first time I have heard magic used for jutsu. It would sort of make sense, in line with the tricks part. One old instructor I had simply refered to all of his techniques as tricks.

Jim London.

"Any technology that is sufficiently advanced that we would not understand it would appear as magic" Arthur Clarke.

[rupert]

Majutsu is magic, sorcery, or witchcraft, and the kanji for 'ma' is 'devil', therefore, I guess you could call it the 'Devil's Art!'

If you can read it - تâú

Rupert Atkinson

[ghp]

Shujutsu is "hand art/technique" and it means surgery. Go figure!

--Guy

[Jim_Jude]

It's JUTSU.