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Thread: "Chihayaburu..." Poem Translation

  1. #1
    MindBlade Guest

    Default "Chihayaburu..." Poem Translation

    Would anyone know a translation for this poem. It is often said by the Sensei in some dojo after "Shinken haramitsu daikomyo". The poem follows:

    "Chihaya buru, kami no oshie wa totoshi ni tadashiki kokoro, mio mamoruran."

    Taharka Mena

  2. #2
    Don Roley Guest

    Default

    I have to warn you, I do not translate, I interpet very liberally. (Last night I turned to the class after Nagase said something about not trying the technique he just showed if the opponents arm has stopped moving by saying, "Inertia- it's not just a good idea- it's the law!") Oh yeah, and I have been drinking- run for the hills!

    But here is what I feel like saying it means- even if I kick myself tommorow.

    "No matter how much you pray- if you don't follow the rules laid down by the kami they ain't going to lift a damn finger to save your ass."

    A direct translation is a bit more complicated and needs footnotes. If you don't like the way I phrased it, you can always pay for a more proffesional effort. I'm going back to my beer.

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    Default

    there's pictures of the written form of that phrase here http://home.luna.nl/~risu/zijkant.htm along with a translation and a few other things
    Dean Eichler der Zweite
    Bujinkan Keiko Dojo
    Owner www.korisuya.com Ninjutsu tools

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    The meaning of this expression as written in Tanemura S.´s book Ninpô Hiden was :


    ' If one doesn´t have a pure heart, heaven will never permit any pleasurable times. '

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    However, a person who could be considered a Shadow Warrior told me the translation of these words the other way around. Something like :

    ' With a pure heart the Kami will guide you through a blessed life ! '

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    I find the last expression more positive to say the truth, although I don´t remember the precise words of both translations or interpretations !!?



    But anyway, I think neither one of these textbooks nor the gun at home will help or save you in a really serious conflict in the hard real world.

    So I think each one should take that to his or her heart as well as keep that in mind.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .

    Nevertheless I´m very interested in the meaning of a PURE HEART !!

    .
    .
    .
    .


    Could we discuss that in a mindful manner please instead of playing ignorant fools who -- from my point of view -- know more or less nothing and unfortunately enough doesn´t seem to see the human beings as the creations they are.

    With BODY, Mind and H e a r t .

    DEEP BREATH -- o.k. : Don´t you think a pure heart´s energy, could be best described by the fusion-energy (sp?) who will be the most powerful in the future although not avaiabla YET (!!) or do you suppose nuclear fission might be something cleaner from your point of view.

    What do you thing ? ? Eehhh !! !

    Thank you very much for your input.

    PS: And yes, I´ve also read about the four dimensions of the term
    " SHIKIN " from " Shikin haramitsu dai komyo " and would like to include the meaning of this fourdimensioned expression in this discussion in order to shed more light on the question. And regarding that, can you tell me something about the requirements from the KAMI to give their HELP , please ?

    I´m R E A L L Y interested in good answers to these important questions, so please help .... !!!!!

    Thank you very much. Domo arigatou gozaimasu.

    And kind regards, RM .
    Last edited by Robert Meier; 2nd December 2002 at 13:38.

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    Question gokui no uta - Shikin Haramitsu Daikomyo

    So whilst searching around the net, I found this page (in Spanish...I think) that has the all familiar "Chihaya buru ......Shikin haramitsu daikomyo".... but there were 4 more lines that followed.....


    http://www.geocities.com/planetasur_...lto/mikkyo.htm
    ---------------------------
    GOKUI NO UTA (5 cantos del cielo)

    1º Chihaya buru kami no oshie wa tokoshieni tada shiki kokoro mi o mamoruran shikin haramitsu daikomyo.

    2º Bou saki de kyoku wo tsura nuite wagatesaki tegotae- areba gokui narikeru shikin haramitsu daikomyo.

    3º Minokamae yu wo arawasu bu no nakani shin no gokui wa kokoro narikeru shikin haramitsu daikomyo.

    4º Tsukikage no terasanu sato wa nakaredomo nagamuru hitono kokoroni zo sumu shikin haramitsu daikomyo.

    5º Koku fu ni karasu wo nui hakushi ni sagi wo egaku shikin haramitsu daikomyo.

    ----------------------------

    where is this from? (yes I know mikkyo buddhism....blah blah blah...)any specific texts...does the text in the site talk about this? what do the other 4 lines mean?

    Thanks for all your help

    Cory Leistikow
    An Inquiring Mind

  6. #6

    Default

    Hello,
    These are all additional phrases or poems that Manaka sensei gave out years back while still in the Bujinkan at some of his workshops. They are various selections from some of the Ryu that the Bujinkan and Jinenkan are comprised of. It appears that whoever posted these just added Shikin Haramitsu Daikomyo to the end.
    Things like when thrusting or swinging the chobo in the air you should feel the tip striking its target.
    Hope this helps!
    Best,
    Todd Schweinhart
    Louisville Kentucky

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    Default The bowing ceramony

    I would like to know about bowing ceramony at the start and at the end of training.

    How is it performed?

    What is the correct wording for the bow in?

    I had a sheet with this information and loaned it to a friend, of which I have not seen in again.

    Any answers would be helpful.

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    Here is what we do at the Genbukan hombu dojo.
    Some of it might not apply to what you are doing.

    If the dojo is equiped with a kamidana, the senior most student is responsible for preparing it for class. This includes putting 5 new candles in the holders, with the wick bent 90 degrees facing the front (for easy lighting). When the teacher signals for the class to begin by saying, the senior most student says “seiretsu” and the students sit down in seiza by rank from right to left, as the senior student lights the candles. The 2nd most senior student says “mokuso” to signal to the rest of the students to enter meditation by closing their eyes and forming their hands in a circle in front of their lower stomach, with the right hand on top. After the senior student finishes lighting the candles, he sits down on the far right end and enters mokuso. The teacher then approaches from the right side and sits between the kamidana and the students facing them. The teacher enters into mokuso and remains so for a period of time, or recites the ninja seishin spritual prayer. At the end, the teacher commands “mokuso yame” to signal the end of the meditation. Everyone then opens their eyes and places their hands on their upper thighs. The teacher turns to his left and faces the kamidana. He then brings his hands up into gassho. Bowing his head slightly, he says the following in 4 distinct parts:

    Chihaya furu
    Kami no oseiwa tokoshieni
    Tadashiki kokoro
    Mio mamoruran

    The teacher then raises his eyes back towards the kamidan and says: “shikin haramitsu daikomyo.” The students repeat the phrase and everyone claps together twice, making sure to match the timing of the claps with that of the teacher. Everyone bows together, claps again, and bows one more time. The teacher then turns to his left to face the students.

    The senior student commands “shisei o tadashite Sensei ni rei.” Everyone, including the teacher bows together and says “onegaishimas.” If the teacher issues specific instructions for the training, it is appropriate to bow one more time in recognition of this. The teacher then gets up, followed by the senior student and then the rest of the students.
    John Lindsey

    Oderint, dum metuant-Let them hate, so long as they fear.

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    Default Reiho in Bujinkan and Genbukan

    Greetings to all of you. I looked through the E-Budo posts and did not see anything specifically about this, so I thought I would pose my question here.

    I have noticed that during the bowing in procedure, the "Tadashi Kokoro Kaisetsu" poem is recited, ending with "Shikin Haramitsu Daikomyo" ("Powerful Light of Wisdom"). The poem begins with "Chihayaburu kami no oshie wa...". I have noticed that in the Genbukan, the leader of the class actually says the poem aloud, then everyone follows by saying the last verse. In the Bujinkan, the poem is never uttered in class, only the last verse. I'm curious as to why this is. Is it that "Shikin Haramitsu Daikomyo" is not part of the poem, but just added as affirmation of sorts, or do the Bujinkan instructors simply not know the entire poem (or have not been taught it, or care about it, etc.) and just say the last phrase (or does the leader utter it to himself silently, then voices the last phrase?). Pardon any offense taken, I'm just curious as to this subtle difference in Reiho between the two groups.

    Bill Haynes
    Bill Haynes

    #1 pickup line of all time: "Hey, does this rag smell like chloroform to you?

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    Not sure if you're interested in the Jinenkan response to this. From what I've seen, the full poem is recited by the head of the class and more quietly by those else in the class who know it (I know I've said it before and not been scolded or anything, as well as seeing the upper level Yudansha also reciting it), but then everyone ends with 'Shikin Haramitsu Daikoumyou'. However, as I've been in and out of the dojo at odd frequencies over the past few years, I am not sure if the Jinenkan has solidified a reihou as of yet. Some of the other Jinenkan folks may have something of much more current detail.
    Cheers,
    Drew Sutton
    Jissen Kobudo Jinenkan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Haynes
    In the Bujinkan, the poem is never uttered in class, only the last verse.
    Sure it is! Depends on the dōjō though.
    May people are to lazy to recite the lengthly prayer.
    Most people don't even care to learn it by heart!

    The prayer that is recited in Genbukan only is the "Ninniku Seishin":

    "Ninja seishin towa, shin shin shikio shinobu. Ninniku seishin o konpon to suru. Chijoku o shinode urami o hojisaru, nintai seishin o yashinau kotoni hajimaru mono de aru.

    Nin to wa, kokoro no ueni yaiba o oite, yaiba de hito o kizutsuketari suruyona monodewa naku, kajo waraku, hana no gotoki joai o motte heiwa o tanoshimu mono de aru.

    Yueni, tai o motte shizen nin aite no ken o sake, sugata o kesu, kyojutsu tenkan no myo o e, icho kuni no tametoka, gi no tame ni: chi, sui, ka, fu, ku, no, daishizen o riyoshite, aite o taosu (seisuru) koto ga, ninja no konpon gensoku de aru."
    Achim Steigert
    Bujinkan Te-Nage Dōjō
    Bujinkan Budō Taijutsu
    Shodan - translated: beginners grade

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    This is a very interesting thread. I look forward to reading the replies.
    Jason Chambers
    Owner,
    Tatsujin Photography & Design

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    BTW: there are people who just CAN'T learn it by heart, just like me.
    I really need to feel what it means in order to learn such texts by heart.
    "Shikin haramitsu dai komyō" is okay, that's short enough.
    The entire mamoruran thing is way too long and I don't have a clue about the correct intonation, the correct pauses and the likes.
    Achim Steigert
    Bujinkan Te-Nage Dōjō
    Bujinkan Budō Taijutsu
    Shodan - translated: beginners grade

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kennin
    BTW: there are people who just CAN'T learn it by heart, just like me.
    I really need to feel what it means in order to learn such texts by heart.
    "Shikin haramitsu dai komyō" is okay, that's short enough.
    The entire mamoruran thing is way too long and I don't have a clue about the correct intonation, the correct pauses and the likes.
    You should buy the "Spirit of Budo" CD by Tanemura Sensei. hehehehehehe

    http://www.genbukan.org/cgi-bin/site..._productID=177
    Ryan Buckley

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    Quote Originally Posted by kennin


    Sure it is! Depends on the dōjō though.
    May people are to lazy to recite the lengthly prayer.
    Most people don't even care to learn it by heart!

    The prayer that is recited in Genbukan only is the "Ninniku Seishin":

    "Ninja seishin towa, shin shin shikio shinobu. Ninniku seishin o konpon to suru. Chijoku o shinode urami o hojisaru, nintai seishin o yashinau kotoni hajimaru mono de aru.

    Nin to wa, kokoro no ueni yaiba o oite, yaiba de hito o kizutsuketari suruyona monodewa naku, kajo waraku, hana no gotoki joai o motte heiwa o tanoshimu mono de aru.

    Yueni, tai o motte shizen nin aite no ken o sake, sugata o kesu, kyojutsu tenkan no myo o e, icho kuni no tametoka, gi no tame ni: chi, sui, ka, fu, ku, no, daishizen o riyoshite, aite o taosu (seisuru) koto ga, ninja no konpon gensoku de aru."
    I'm not sure this is only recited in the Genbukan. It is absolutly, entirely possible I misheard and I've misremembered but I think I've heard at least one Japanese Shihan in the Bujinkan recite it before class. It's hard to tell though, because my Japanese is bad and it was said under his breath, as the other one usually is.

    I think I remember hearing the "chi, sui, ka, fu, ku" part....
    Stephen Kovalcik

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