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Thread: Takenouchi ryu jujutsu

  1. #1
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    Question Takeuchi-ryu

    Aloha all,

    I just wanted to ask if anyone can explain to me some of the basic principles in Takeuchi-ryu jujutsu. I've found a teacher here in Honolulu, but I haven't been able to get a hold of him to speak with.

    Mahalos.

    Joel
    Regards,
    Joel

    Isaiah 6:8

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    Default

    Joel,

    The best source on Takeuchi Ryu is Wayne Muramoto and he's probably who you are trying to get hold of.

    There is a link in the Jujutsu on the Internet thread that will get you to his website. Also try Koryu.com I remember that they had an article or two about it as well.

    Regards

    Neil

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    Cool in Hawai'i

    Aloha Neil,

    Yes, Wayne Muromoto is the sensei I was talking about. I went to practice with him tonight (Friday). It's a really laid-back but traditional place.

    Anyway...can anybody tell me some of the things (in general) I might learn in jujutsu? I have a shorin-ryu background and I'm kinda worried there's no striking at all in jujutsu. (insert laughing and knee slapping here).

    Honestly, the only jujutsu I've ever been exposed to is that of the Gracie's and I'm not particularly impressed. With their attitude mostly. Anyway...I'll stop blabbing.

    aloha and mahalo,
    Regards,
    Joel

    Isaiah 6:8

  4. #4
    Dan Harden Guest

    Default Jujutsu isn't Shorin Ryu

    Joel

    First, give it some time to absorb there Bud. Something which you have already done with your present art I'm sure.
    Second, if you are planning to spend time with Wayne in an art that certainly has jujutsu-maybe he is the one you should be asking these questions of.
    As far as anyone explaining the principles of that particular art's jujutsu to you-there may be two men in North America qualified to answer your questions about the principles you are about to encounter. Count yourself as an extremely fortunate fellow should Wayne choose to teach you. His art is a fine rarety. Trust us, that you may not know -just yet- how lucky you are.

    That said, I think you will find many jujutsu styles have striking and types of kicking-which may or may not be of different application than your used to. You may also find fundamental strategic differences in the approach to an opponent and what you will train to do once you are "there" on the inside. What I may consider inside may be different from what you have seen inthe graice style.
    As an example, depending on your training you probably have inculcated a response/timing automatic response in you to an attack. Do you think that same distance -hip movement- entering-and displacement will work in your new venture?
    I would guess ...no
    If not, how long do you think it will take to re-wire you to a jujutsu based response? Until this has been accomplished in you- you can't truly understand the differences anyway-only "talk" about them. And "talking," as you already know from your previous art, doesn't even begin to cut it.

    We all try to share here-there just aren't many of us who have a passion for budo....but unfortunately this medium doesn't work so much for Budo...yer just gotta train.
    In my opinion Jujutsu (good) jujutsu, is just a different animal.

    Sweat sure does answer alot of questions.

    Dan

    "When the effects of exercise build up unawares and pratice accumulates, thoughts of wishing to -quickly- develop skill disappear quietly, and whatever you do, you spontaneously become free from conscious thoughts..........your body, feet, and hands act without your doing anything in your mind, you make no misses, ten times out of ten.

    Yagyu Munenori
    A treatise on the Family traditions of the arts of war
    Last edited by Dan Harden; 30th September 2001 at 09:03.

  5. #5
    Benjamin Peters Guest

    Talking Takeuchi Ryu Jujutsu - taught to soldiers in ancient times?

    Was Takeuchi Ryu Jujutsu or any other koryu Jujutsu taught to soldiers as a mass? For instance, from bits I've heard certain sword school were taught to the soldiers. Was the same for JJ at any stage in Japanese history - if so what other JJ schools were taught to soldiers?

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    Wink Sort of....What I know is...

    Hi Benjamin.
    I think I am right in saying that most of the domains in Japan through the 'koryu' years had there own schools in-house that taught to the Samurai of their domain only. Like the Jigen Ryu Kenjutsu being taught only in Satsuma-han and only to members of Satsuma-han' Samurai population (Or commoner depending on the school).
    Schools that taught only in a specific Han are generally referred to as Otome Ryu and there are several instances of this through the years in Japan.
    Jujutsu was also treated in this fashion. It was common to find quite a few separate Ryuha within the domain all teaching various aspects of Martial arts whether it was Hojutsu, Jujutsu, Kenjutsu, Sojutsu or Heiho etc..This allowed the domain to build a solid base of warriors who had access to a choice of arts in order for them to strengthen their clans 'armies'.
    I know that schools like the Yagyu Shingan Ryu had teachings aimed at many levels of authority in the Samurai hierarchy, for instance the Ashigaru warriors would be taught different waza that were aimed at them (And the 'needs' of their particular class) and there were also teachings for 'inner guards' and others in the ranking systems....I would assume that a pattern similar to this was followed by other Han also around Japan at that time.
    Not sure if this helps answer the question but it is a start I guess.
    Abayo
    Ben Sharples.
    智は知恵、仁は思いやり、勇は勇気と説いています。

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    Default Nope, wasn't us...

    Hi...

    Nope. As far as the Takeunouchi (Takeuchi) ryu goes, it was never taught en masse to any fief's army. The founder, Hisamori, laid down a "house" rule that none of his descendants who were instructors in the style would ever serve a daimyo ever again, nor should they teach as a daimyo-sponsored martial arts instructor. If you were interested in studying the ryu, and was in the employ of a daimyo, then you were welcome to study, but from the beginning, our ryu avoided aligning with any particular daimyo or army. This was because Hisamori's earlier dealings in the wars between the Oda/Toyotomi and the Western daimyo (Mori) left a really bad taste in his mouth. He was disgusted with fighting for power-hungry daimyo and became a sort of gentleman farmer.

    Anyways...

    Wayne Muromoto

  8. #8
    Benjamin Peters Guest

    Default

    Out of interest, have would it be fair to say that takenouchi ryu has influenced most JJ schools? Which ones?

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    Default takeuchi-ryu influences

    Benjamin Peters wrote:
    "Out of interest, have would it be fair to say that takenouchi ryu has influenced most JJ schools? Which ones?"

    I don't have my texts in front of me, but the list is long. Off the top of my head, there's the influence it had, documented directly or indirectly on the Hontai Takagi Yoshin-ryu (or Hontai-Yoshin-ryu), Araki-ryu, Fusen-ryu, Takenouchi Santo-ryu, and even Kodokan judo newaza. A lot of grappling schools after the Takeuchi-ryu were influenced by it, especially in the Edo period, when there were a lot of dojo and some inter-dojo grappling contests, where different ryu seeded each other with various new contest-type techniques. No doubt the influences came back too, as techniques from other schools (taryuden) were tested and used in its competitive training. There's a picture of Jigoro Kano posing in front of the Kyoto Butokuden with several Kansai area jujutsu masters who probably helped him develop the judo kata. About three of them have some connections with the Takeuchi-ryu.

    Wayne Muromoto

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    Default Takenouchi Ryu Jujutsu

    Would anyone happen to have any information on this particular style of Koryu Jujutsu? I actually came across this style in Serge Mol's book and wanted to learn more about it. Any help would be appreciated.
    Sincerely,

    Eric Joyce
    Otake Han Doshin Ryu Jujutsu

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    Default

    Eric,

    I understand Wayne Muromoto-sensei's Seifukan dojo website includes an introduction to the Takeuchi-ryu taught at his dojo. I think you should be able to access it via www.furyu.com.

    Sincerely,
    Daniel Lee

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    Default

    Thanks Daniel. I did check this out and it helped.
    Sincerely,

    Eric Joyce
    Otake Han Doshin Ryu Jujutsu

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    Default hello dere

    Hi.

    Any questions? Sometimes I do answer my email at wmuromoto@hotmail.com regarding takeuchi-ryu. Any other stuff that looks like junk mail, I trash immediately. Other stufff sometimes takes a while, but I try...

    The Mol book is...hmmm. Inter-esting. Has some interesting stuff in it, but some oddities as well. It's been dissected at length by others on this site. Suffice it to say that it introduces the Takeuchi/Takenouchi-ryu but that's about all you're getting...a very brief intro. Anything beyond that...even some of the waza...is somewhat curious. Interesting. Hmmm.

    Wayne Muromoto

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    Default takeuchi-ryu origins

    Hello Russ,

    Not having Diane Skoss' collection in front of me right now, I hesitate to make a comment, but basically...The most direct interpretation of the origin myth I got was that the founder, Takeuchi (or Takenouchi) Hisamori, after several days' worth of fasting, training and praying, had a vision upon awaking from a fatigue induced slumber. Someone that looked like an old mountain priest appeared on a cloud and beat the crap out of him, split his long bokken in half and told him to concentrate on a dagger half the length of his bokken, and then yanked out a kudzu root and taught him some rope binding methods (hojojutsu).

    This was as Sannomiya shrine, but Hisamori considered the apparition to be a manifestation of Atago Gongen (which is related to the Shogun Jizo and to the Buddhist Fudo Myoo and Marishiten), so Atagosan is the ryu's mountain/patron.

    Before and after that event, Hisamori and the Takeuchi family had experienced several battles, the last of which was that between the Mori of Western Japan and that of Oda Nobunaga's forces, led by Hashiba Hideyoshi, the result of which was a truce and the death of Shimizu Muneharu.

    The second and third masters of the school also underwent shugyo and experienced their own versions of a visionary enlightenment.

    In fact, my sensei warned me that were I continue training for several more years, one day I might end up being told to consider undergoing rites for the upper level ranks, which, he said, should rightfully include the time-honored tradition of fasting and training for several days to receive my own enlightenment into martial arts satori (although not many really do it anymore...it seems to have gone optional since so many students are busy working all the time). For me, as someone who loves his daily square meals and added snacks while watching TV, that prospect sounded rather daunting . No food? No TV? No...Joe Millionairre or CSI? Augh.

    And, to also answer a related thread that questioned whether or not "koryu jujutsu" had actual "battlefield applications," I must say that historically and technically speak, at least in the case of our ryu, there is no question that its root techniques, particularly in the kogusoku forms, came out of classical combative situations in warfare...They were probably actually used. Forms based on duels, within a castle during peace time, "self defense" or competition also exist, but they are additions to, not modifications of, the original kogusoku forms.

    And no, for this kind of info, I don't have to kill you. :-) Maybe buy me a beer one day, however.

    Wayne

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    Default info on Takenouchi ryu

    Hi Eric,

    QUOTE: Would anyone happen to have any information on this particular style of Koryu Jujutsu? I actually came across this style in Serge Mol's book and wanted to learn more about it. Any help would be appreciated.



    Also, you can have a look in Draeger's book on koryu bujutsu.
    There are some nice pictures to boot.

    Gambatte,
    Al Heinemann
    www.shofukan.ca

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