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Thread: SCARS

  1. #1
    ericDZR Guest

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    is anyone here familiar with the SCARS fighting system?

    http://www.scars.com

    although it sounds like they have a couple good ideas, there also seems to be a whole lot of junk. i'm under the impression that it's just another marketing sceme. what are your thoughts?



    [Edited by ericDZR on 08-28-2000 at 11:26 PM]

  2. #2
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    For a glowing look at Jerry Peterson's SCARS system, see Herb Borkland's article at http://fightingarts.com/magazine/borklandscars.shtml .

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    Good Old Scars and Mr. Peterson..,

    Give me a break! Maybe you should ask the kung fu San Soo people what they think of his system. Believe me, they've got quite a bit to say! I am not in a position to really comment on the art as I have never taken part in any of its training, but what I have seen and experienced, is russian martial arts. If Peterson claims that Speztnad training (as he does in his site) is far inferior to SCARS training and that it is infact molded after it( due to Soviet spies in the 80's coming over and observing SCARS training), then you've got to wonder whether or not he is out to lunch. Sure, the American Navy Seals are the only combat troops that have develloped a 100% "scientific" combat system. Krav Maga, chinese special forces, Spetznad, and other elite forces are only operating on 15% system effectiveness (as he says) because they've gathered lose techniques and tried to fit them into a system. Simply put.., the man can advertise. If you train for high stress, you will be effective in just about any style. If you truly want to learn "scientific" principles, then don't be surprised if it takes a longer time period to truly understand combat principles and apply them under stress. If everything is bang bang bang all the time, can you really break down body mechanics and understand them? I am by no means an authority here, but I hope someone else who is, has a look at the site and comes up with a more detailed answer. So in short, SCARS may be good and Mr. Peterson may be talented.., but they aren't THAT good or THAT talented. There are other "scientific" systems around that would serve an individual just as well.
    Michael Panzerotti
    Certified MookJong Slayer

  4. #4
    ericDZR Guest

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    here are just some of the impressions i picked up from Herb Borkland's article and the website. mind you i have never met anyone who has trained in the system or seen the system first hand so these are just impressions from what i've seen on the internet.
    ok i admit the "offensive mind set" sounds like a good idea and breaking down the system into a more "scientific" approach has it's merits but after checking out the website it sounds like a tv infomercial...on the internet. in addition the training seems incredibly irresponsible. for example, from Mr. Borkland's article:

    "How tough is SCARS? Our camp had already lost two guys by lunchtime on the first day. One man broke his wrist. He wasn't used to being thrown, especially by someone who wasn't used to throwing."

    that's not tough, that's poor and irresponsible training techniques. also teaching killing techniques, assuming they are as effective as they claim, to anyone with the cash shows a lack of ethics both on a business and a personal level. so while the system claims that individuals need to protect themselves with these techniques it doesn't teach any prison survival skills. considering how our legal system works, that's most likely where these guys would end up after maiming or killing their "attacker". the website is loaded with questionable information and that's why i'd like to hear from somebody with first hand knowledge of the system.

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    If you think those are somewhat over the top, you should read the full page ads in "Soldier of Fortune."

    But at five grand a week, I doubt too many folks on E-budo are going to have attended the training themselves. But if you do have that kind of disposable income, how about dropping me a line? I'll hook you up with some folks whose track records are indisputable, and probably save you some coin (and injuries) in the meantime.

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    Question

    "Jerry Peterson, who founded SCARS in 1987, yelled with military urgency. He served in the 173rd Airborne Charlie Company in Vietnam"

    This is fom the "Mens Health" article.

    I wonder how true it is??
    My dad was with the 173rd Headquarters 66/67
    and he told me that at that time all of Charlie Company was
    either killed or severly injured.

    Would like to see when he was there.
    Just curious.
    Joe Stitz

    Eagles soar high,
    But weasels will never get sucked into a jet engine.

  7. #7
    Michael Morning Guest

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    Regarding SCARS, I've reviewed the site in the past and also read the article with interest. My own belief is that he must have something fairly serious to offer only for the fact that he deals with some "heavy hitters" (FBI, various police forces, SWAT, etc.). These types of individuals have usually seen everything and don't take well to much of the more gimmiky martial arts. He's also spent quite a bit of money setting up various scenario training rooms for specific agencies. If he was pushing a load of crap, he'd be found out and trounced by those in the know pretty quickly. And offering such expensive training places him in the unenviable position of having to constantly defend what he does from detractors.

    On the other hand, a quick glimpse of the SAFTA website (http://www.navysealteams.com/Safta.htm) would have you believe that SCARS and Peterson are full of crap. They STRONGLY denounce his claims of having trained Navy SEALS (since SAFTA supposedly has documentation proving their own claim to SEAL training and site a complete lack of such documentation on Peterson's part).

    Be this as it may, it is a well known fact that the military has trained in numerous martial arts over the years. It may be possible that Peterson conducted a special seminar at one point, but was never "picked up" as regular SEAL training. But having conducted that one seminar (if that is in fact what happened) would allow him to advertise "SEAL training" as a marketing tool for his system.

    SAFTA is interesting, but I HATE their website. Last time I went into it, the first thing that popped up was something which read "Kick Ass with the Navy SEALs" . That type of advertising is pretty pathetic and could only appeal to the lowest common denominator. Not some of the best folks to be learning serious techniques.

    On a last note, I don't think that criticizing Peterson for teaching more deadly techniques is of any concern. His high-priced training is not going to pull in the average gang-banger. He teaches primarily government/police force agencies and his videos are merely primers for the live training (it's a requirement for live training that you have bought and studied the tapes). People such as the FBI, SWAT, and military need a wide variety of training - including lethal training - so Peterson wouldn't be doing right by his 5 grand fees if he didn't teach some seriously useful technique.

    I guess someone is just going to have to cough up the money for the tapes and training to end the discussion

  8. #8
    ericDZR Guest

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    interesting point of view Michael. i've noticed over the years that some instructors who have taught a couple of SEAL members will advertise themselves as providing offical SEAL training as well, but i was also under the impression that hand-to-hand combat is not a major goal of SEAL units and therefore most training is sought independently or in small units. (can anyone elaborate on this?)

    as far as Mr. Peterson teaching deadly techniques to professionals is concerned, i do not have a problem with that. but i still disagree with teaching these techniques to any civilain with the cash. it's purely a profit making scheme in my opinion. similar to the instant self-help and financial schemes i've seen advertised on TV. many of these require purchasing tape/videos/info before being allowed to attend the seminars. the videos may be primer for the students but it's cash in the pocket for Mr. Peterson and SCARS is definatly targeting the lowest common denominator. as i said before, the entire website is laid out like an infomercial.

    i also have to disagree with the idea that the pricetag will help to keep those of questionable character out of the program (cash certainly doesn't equal morals/ethics). but regardless of my opinions i would still like to hear from an "insider" since i doubt i could watch these guys in action or on video without paying a bit of cash.

    thanks for the SAFTA url, i've been meaning to do a search for that site.

  9. #9
    Lewis Christopher Guest

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    I don't know about the SEALS, but most police DT instructors that I know laugh when they see Jerry's tapes. I know I did. As far as "lethal" tachniques, he isn't teaching any strikes that a Karate sensei or Kung Fu Sifu doesn't teach and Judo/Jujutsu teaches many more "lethal" chokes. SCARS is all entry level martial arts stuff that you could learn anywhere. I really laughed at the tapes when they blacked out the screen so you couldn't see what the demonstrators were doing, you could only hear them. The tape said they were doing techniques that were just too lethal to be seen. Give me a break. Junk!!!

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by JS3
    "Jerry Peterson, who founded SCARS in 1987, yelled with military urgency. He served in the 173rd Airborne Charlie Company in Vietnam"

    This is fom the "Mens Health" article.

    I wonder how true it is??
    My dad was with the 173rd Headquarters 66/67
    and he told me that at that time all of Charlie Company was
    either killed or severly injured.

    Would like to see when he was there.
    Just curious.
    I don't know anything about SCARS or Peterson (or much else ), but what I can say is that a unit can be classified as a total loss without every single soldier being dead. My grandfather's unit in WWII was classified as destroyed twice.



    (BTW, these new smilies are the best!)

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  11. #11
    Michael Morning Guest

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    I have to agree with Eric regarding SCARS looking like one long infomercial. Too true. That type of advertising really makes me gag. 'Course, as bad as it is I think SAFTA is even worse. I've known quite a few ex-military/special forces people in my day and many of them were pretty 'gung-ho', but these types of advertising ploys really take the cake. I think I would avoid them just on principle. Why contribut to what you most dislike?

    One last note that urks me about the SCARS/SAFTA advertising is the notion that what they offer is soooooo far superior to anything that's come before. I'd say that's pretty absurd, regardless of what they teach, considering all those who've come before.

    As for teaching civilians lethal technique, it is surprising that there wouldn't be a civilian version of the program and a law enforcement personnel version. Teaching someone fresh off the street "lethal" technique is risky since you never know who it is you're teaching. At least in the traditional dojo/dojang there's a seasoning period (usually of years) where an instructor can get to know his students before jumping into the serious stuff. I always made it a point in my schools to weed out the troublemakers long before they became senior students.



  12. #12
    Rhomyn Escalante Guest

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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by JS3
    [B]

    My dad was with the 173rd Headquarters 66/67
    and he told me that at that time all of Charlie Company was
    either killed or severly injured.

    Peterson was probably there with Charlie Co., but I can't remember what battalion he said he was with. And I thought it was '67/'68? Point is, how bad does everyone want to know? I can find out, just a phone call away. Charlie Co. 1st/503d was 'hurt' after "Junction City" and I think also during combat in the Iron Triangle during that time. But in '67 & '68 they were very 'healthy'. Let me know.

    Rho Escalante. HHC 1/503Infantry, 173rd Airborne Brigade (Seperate), RVN 1967 & 1968.

    Note: As far as his SCARS. Way behind the learning curve. Just fact. I have no (sic) opinion.

  13. #13
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    Red face

    I may be mistaken
    my dad was 2/503 and he was at Junction City
    I'm just relating info 2nd hand and you know how that goes.
    He said the no one "made it home" during the time that he was there. But he may have been thinking of a specific battle.
    Just curious, I usually doubt claims like this when there used in advertising.


    PS
    welcome home
    Joe Stitz

    Eagles soar high,
    But weasels will never get sucked into a jet engine.

  14. #14
    Rhomyn Escalante Guest

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    Yeah. Your Dad probably meant that no one 'made it home' meaning that in his squad or maybe a fire team, but platoon and company wise- no. Now casualties were high, a hallmark of duty with the 173rd Airborne Brigade, and a company(s) (Charlie and/or Bravo, 2nd/503d, I believe) may of become under-strength, but they were always operational. I was serving with A Co. 1st/502nd Infantry, 101st Airborne Division in 1967 when 1st and 2nd Battalion/503d Infantry, 173rd Airborne Brigade (Sep) lost a lot of men at Dak To on Hill(s) 875, and later 881 and 882. And I was transferred because of those losses. But even then 2nd Bat was operational, just under strengthed. I think only the 1st CAV (Airborne) had a battalion go non-operational after I Drang? Not sure though.

  15. #15
    Nikos Guest

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    If I remember correctly Peterson was with 1st Bat in '68, but I am not sure either. As far as SCARS goes, no one I know uses it anymore.

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