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Thread: Daito ryu Goshinkai/ Jose Garrido

  1. #16
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    Default Update

    Mr. Garrido last replied to me on August 18th. Just after that reply, I emailed him back requesting that he answer two more questions for us:

    1) What is Shimpo Sensei's first name?

    2) How long did you study under Shimpo Sensei?

    These should be no-brainer questions for him to answer.

    On this email, I copied one of his students who has been offering assistance in answering our questions. Mr. Garrido has not answered either of these questions, and his student indicated that Mr. Garrido felt that he had answered enough questions.

    The problem is that these two questions are very important questions, since Mr. Garrido's entire legitimacy to using the Daito ryu name is based on his shodan in Daito ryu. I understand that Shimpo Sensei has been to America several times for short trips in past years, and during the time that Yonezawa Sensei was in charge, it is possible that he might have awarded certificates to students during his visits. If this is the case here, then Mr. Garrido's claim is quite misleading, since the rank would in effect still be a "Yonezawa" rank (presented by a visiting senior instructor).

    But in any event, even someone holding a legitimate shodan in an orthodox branch of Daito ryu would not have earned the right or permission to use the Daito ryu name and mon independently.

    Mr. Garrido is even listing open seminar experience with Kondo Sensei as part of his Daito ryu credentials and legitimacy (which is very different from DR Kodokai anyway). Can a shodan level student (even assuming it was earned) really break off and teach/issue ranks under a classical art?

    What is the story here?
    Last edited by Nathan Scott; 29th September 2003 at 23:47.
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

  2. #17
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    I should also mention the following information, offered by the aforementioned student of Mr. Garrido via PM:

    - Mr. Garrido has apparently severed their relationship with Joe Beckham's group, outside of (I believe) the NGA stuff. They should no longer be any Daito ryu references on their page.

    - As a point of clarification, Mr. Garrido apparently studied with Mr. DePasquale, Sr. - not Jr.

    - The Black & Gold DR influenced patch is specific to Joe Beckham's dojo, not Mr. Garrido's.

    HTH,
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

  3. #18
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    Originally posted by Nathan Scott
    I should also mention the following information, offered by the aforementioned student of Mr. Garrido via PM:

    - Mr. Garrido has apparently severed their relationship with Joe Beckham's group, outside of (I believe) the NGA stuff. They should no longer be any Daito ryu references on their page.

    - As a point of clarification, Mr. Garrido apparently studied with Mr. DePasquale, Sr. - not Jr.

    - The Black & Gold DR influenced patch is specific to Joe Beckham's dojo, not Mr. Garrido's.

    HTH,
    I would like to clarify the following:

    Jose Garrido severed ALL ties with Joe Beckham's group, including the NGA training. Joe Beckham's NGA rank is Nidan, as awarded by the Nihon Goshin Aikido Association. He holds no ranking from Jose Garrido.

    You are correct: He studied with Sensei DePasquale, Sr.

    If you are referring to the black & gold shoulder patch, then yes, it is a patch associated with Joe Beckham's dojo only.

    Justin Campbell
    Justin Campbell

  4. #19
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    Since it would seem that Mr. Garrido cannot answer my questions, I'll go ahead and tip my hand.

    In 1982, Yonezawa Katsumi was still leading instruction in Daito ryu in America. If you studied in America at that time, you were directly or indirectly under his instruction, and ranks were issued through him.

    From: http://www.daitoryugoshinkai.com/aboutus.html

    Mr. Garrido continued his training and was given a Black Belt in Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu Kodokai in 1982 (Shimpo)...
    A document was forwarded to me from an ex-Kodokai member that records that Shimpo Sensei from the Kodokai in Japan joined Yonezawa in a trip to America in 1982. At that time, a seminar was conducted in New Jersey, and was hosted by Joseph Conti, who is also a NGA teacher living in the same area, and I believe under the same NGA teacher as Mr. Garrido. According to Mr. Kopitov's website (if I'm reading it correctly), Mr. Garrido and Mr. Conti are/were both students under Steven Weber (not Richard Bowe, though Bowe may have written a letter conferring kyoju dairi in NGA to Garrido).

    http://nihongoshinaikido.com/history.htm

    Anyway, Mr. Conti and Mr. Garrido were both members of the Kodokai at that time (ca. 1982). Don't know for how long, but since Mr. Garrido will not post this information, we can guess that it was probably for a relatively short time.

    So in conclusion, it is possible that Shimpo Sensei presented a "black belt" (literally?) to Mr. Garrido during this NJ seminar in 1982, since Shimpo Sensei would have been the senior instructor present. But considering that Mr. Garrido can't even tell us the first name of Shimpo Sensei, and considering the fact that Shimpo Sensei's students are in Japan, it is safe to guess that the black belt issued to Mr. Garrido is in fact a "Yonezawa ranking". As such, to say "given a Black Belt in Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu Kodokai in 1982 (Shimpo)" is more than a little misleading.

    I don't mean to sound as though I'm out to bash Mr. Garrido, but these do appear to be the facts, and it is unfortunate in my opinion that Mr. Garrido cannot place more faith in his own methods without feeling the need to misuse the Daito ryu name.

    Regards,
    Last edited by Nathan Scott; 30th October 2003 at 22:47.
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

  5. #20

    Default

    Sensei Garrido was a direct student of Shihan Bowe. Sorry that the chart is not clear on that.

    Mr. Conti left NGA and joined Yonezawa's organization and was put in charge of it for a period of time. At a later date Goldberg Sensei took over. Hope that helps to clear things up a little.
    Walter V. Kopitov

  6. #21
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    Mr. Kopitov,

    Thanks for the correction. I was hoping that you would post if I misunderstood your chart.

    Regards,
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

  7. #22
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    I just came across an "aiki blog" on the Aikido Journal website with some interesting statements:

    Kondo Sensei seminar
    Posted by Ron DeKett on June 21st, 2006

    http://www.aikidojournal.com/?id=2096

    "As a student of Tatsuo Shimpo, he earned a shodan in Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu Kodokai."

    "The three-day seminar will be Oct. 6-8 at the Spartan School of Self-Defense in Cliffside Park. Shihan Jose delCristo Garrido will host Kondo Sensei’s visit at the school, which is the most spacious dojo I’ve ever visited."
    I see Garrido is apparently still claiming to be a "student" of Shimpo Sensei. Congratulations BTW on finding out his first name. That must have been tough.

    But I was suprised to read that Garrido is already a Shihan in Kondo Sensei's Daito-ryu!

    It looks like there are still some mysterious misunderstandings being generated here from the Garrido's dojo. I for one would like to see either a retraction posted about the above or proof that it is true.

    Regards,
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

  8. #23
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    Dear Nathan et al,

    I'm sure Mr. Garrido or a student will be able to clarify his position better then I can, but I'll make a quick post to try to clear some things up before anyone gets confused. As far as I know Mr. Garrido holds no rank or title from Kondo sensei (please correct me if I'm wrong). He is a study group head under Kondo sensei, much like Mr. John Goss and Mr. Rick Fine. These are administrative as well as technical positions until a formal dojo can be created. As of now there are no formal shibucho in the USA other then Mr. Mark Sumi. I am assuming Mr. Garrido holds the title of shihan and I think 8th or 9th dan from another source, maybe aikido? I have met Mr. Garrido many times at seminars and he seems like a very nice guy, and his students are very devoted to him. I hope someone else can give more info. then I can.
    Christopher Covington

    Daito-ryu aikijujutsu
    Kashima Shinden Jikishinkage-ryu heiho

    All views expressed here are my own and don't necessarily represent the views of the arts I practice, the teachers and people I train with or any dojo I train in.

  9. #24
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    Gentlemen,
    Let me clarify this for the last time. I am not claiming Shihanship in DTR. I am currently functioning as a study group leader under Kondo sensei. I suggest that any further speculation about my relationship with Kondo sensei be asked of Kondo sensei directly.

    My shihan rank is in Jujutsu from the Federation of Practicing Jujutsuans an organization that was headed by Michael DePasquale Senior.

    Now, let's not re-hash this nonsense again, and let's just train. If anyone wants to discuss things further with me or discuss my relationship in DTR please attend the October seminar all persons will be there in person to answer all questions.

    Yours in Budo,
    Jose garrido
    Jose' delCristo Garrido
    Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu Mainline Tradition
    NYC Metro Area Branch Dojo
    facebook.com/daitoryudojonj

  10. #25
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    Also, Mr. Scott, for future reference, his name is Shimbo Sensei, not ShimPo.
    Rick Jones
    _____________
    Nichi nichi kore kojitsu
    Every Day is a Good Day!

  11. #26
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    Default Sticking my nose in someone else's business

    I hope Mr. Jose Garrido the best of luck with his study group under Kondo Sensei. I am glad Mr. Garrido has found his place in Kondo Sensei's Daito ryu. Congrats.

    I have followed Mr. Garrido career since his interest in Daito Ryu. I am glad Mr. Garrido association with Daito Ryu now has found fertile ground where he can develop roots. And all his past ventures and dealings with other Daito Ryu groups will now be unimportant, falling to the wayside, in the light of him heading a prestigious Daito Ryu study group.


    jonesin, hear of that old saying, of don't assume because it can make an ...Well you know the rest. Treading on assumptions is dangerous. Just a friendly word of caution.

  12. #27
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    Default Hmmm

    Mr. Robison, please elaborate where you feel I may be assuming something. Because I tend to try not to make an a_s out of myself (doesn't always work though). Please, enlighten me.
    Rick Jones
    _____________
    Nichi nichi kore kojitsu
    Every Day is a Good Day!

  13. #28
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    Dear Mr. Jones,

    It might be your authoritarian post towards Nathan, about the spelling of Mr. Shimpo/Shimbo's name? You state it so matter of factly like everyone should know the Romanization of his name, when on 4/7/06 you called him "Shimpo" in a post, too.

    "You would not do yourself an injustice to visit Mr. Joe Conti in Dunellen, NJ. He studied Daito-Ryu Aiki Jujutsu, Kodokai for 9 years with Katsumi Yonezawa and Shimpo Sensei. (Hosting them in his home in NJ, (Yonezawa regularly, Shimpo sporadically)). When the scrolls... "


    Just a thought. Anyway let's follow Mr. Garrido's advice and train!

    Peace,
    Christopher Covington

    Daito-ryu aikijujutsu
    Kashima Shinden Jikishinkage-ryu heiho

    All views expressed here are my own and don't necessarily represent the views of the arts I practice, the teachers and people I train with or any dojo I train in.

  14. #29
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    Mr. Covington, you are correct that I typed the name incorrectly on that previous thread. I was typing quickly at the time and later realized my mistake. Not posting much on these sites, I did not know how to edit the post at the time and had fogotten about it.

    When I read the name again in this post, I wanted to be sure that I had it correct also.

    Also, I didn't feel I was being matter of fact (or authoritative by any means, since I have little if any knowledge of the Japanese language), but just being polite and concise, with the knowledge that I do have. From reading the extensive work and research that Mr. Scott has done, I consider him a knowledge sponge, and figured he would like to be accurate with what he has created as a running history of the arts. I would always ask for anyone to correct me if I am not doing something as accurately as humanly possible...otherwise why study anything or try to improve?

    Lastly, Mr. Scott, if the post seemed short, it was just to get the information across to you. Nothing more, nothing less.

    As far as training, I agree. That's why you don't see me posting much here...
    Rick Jones
    _____________
    Nichi nichi kore kojitsu
    Every Day is a Good Day!

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonesin
    Also, Mr. Scott, for future reference, his name is Shimbo Sensei, not ShimPo.
    Jonesin,

    Please read our rules about signing with your FULL name. Thank you.
    George Kohler

    Genbukan Kusakage dojo
    Dojo-cho

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