Aikido Flavours: Aikikai to Yoshinkan: What's in a Name?

[TLR]

Hi David,

In fact, a little more on that subject of the demo with the Judo guys. Back in the day they played the newsreels before movies instead of commercials and cartoons. Well Suzuki Sensei was at the Wailuku movie theatre one day and saw the Tohei Sensei demo on the news reel. He was a judo practioner 1st kyu. But he said although Judo was great for single encounters it was worthless during multiple attacks. He had first hand experience during WWII. You see he was a policeman and Japanese at that when the 80,000 Marines were stationed on the island preparing for their island hopping campaign. He said everyday he was in a fight with drunk sailors and marines and not just one but usually 5 - 6 at a time. he said Judo was good for 1 - 3 people but after that he could not handle anymore. Now Suzuki Sensei was a big man for Japanese probably 5' 10" and almost 200 lbs. He lifted weights and studied judo back in those days. So his wife was always nagging him as his uniform was being torn everyday due to the fights. So when he saw the newsreel of the judo guys being thrown he said what the hell I need to learn this art. Just months later he met Tohei Sensei and dedicated his life to training with him.

I have to say we get a lot of visitors at our dojo. We have a log of everyone who has trained there. From as far back as Yamada Sensei when he was like a yondan to everyone else. All styles Suzuki Sensei allows everyone to train no matter what. He has always been a very giving person when it comes to that.

He tells this one story wherein Tohei Sensei was given O'Sensei's iron fan. Well in 1974 or so he gave the fan to Suzuki Sensei and said you have trained with me for over twenty years I would like to give you O'Sensei's iron fan. Suzuki Sensei was so amazed as he had saw O'Sensei back in the late 50's and 60's carry that very fan. Suzuki Sensei politely turned him down and said this is a Japanese treasurer please give this to your son.

We are in the process of setting up a museum case of sorts where we display all of the things he does have. He has bokken signed by O'Sensei, Doshu, Tohei Sensei and Shinichi Sensei. Calligraphy is displayed in our dojo of O'Sensei (aikido and Take musu aiki) along with a rare piece by Abe Sensei which was given to Tohei Sensei by Abe Sensei (i think in honor of his 10th dan or something like that) Tohei Sensei gave it to Suzuki Sensei.

yes you are welcome to visit anytime. message me and I will give you my email if you would like privately about a visit.

I understand what you mean now. Well this of course is VERY advanced and I have seen Suzuki Sensei perform and his top student Curtis Sensei and yes we have practiced it on occasion but no one really else gets it yet.

aloha,

Tracy

[kimiwane]

Suzuki Sensei was at the Wailuku movie theatre one day and saw the Tohei Sensei demo on the news reel. He was a judo practioner 1st kyu. But he said although Judo was great for single encounters it was worthless during multiple attacks. He had first hand experience during WWII. You see he was a policeman and Japanese at that when the 80,000 Marines were stationed on the island preparing for their island hopping campaign. He said everyday he was in a fight with drunk sailors and marines and not just one but usually 5 - 6 at a time. he said Judo was good for 1 - 3 people but after that he could not handle anymore. Now Suzuki Sensei was a big man for Japanese probably 5' 10" and almost 200 lbs. He lifted weights and studied judo back in those days. So his wife was always nagging him as his uniform was being torn everyday due to the fights. So when he saw the newsreel of the judo guys being thrown he said what the hell I need to learn this art. Just months later he met Tohei Sensei and dedicated his life to training with him.

Wow. What a tough guy, scrapping with all those soldiers. He must have taken a lot of bruises. My father was a county deputy when they had to pin a badge to a sport shirt and strap a gun to their personal belt and go in alone to these roadside joints and bring out arestees. Those are real martial artists.

However, as to judo and multiple attackers, I've seen lots of references to Kyuzo Mifune's being involved in numerous fights with 10 to 15 people at once. Of course, he had two or three friends with him. Not totally alone, but that comes out to four or five guys each. Also, Suzuki sensei was 1st kyu in judo, so maybe he could have given it more time.

Not a criticism of him. I guess he was able to learn very quickly directly from Tohei sensei. But if he had learned from Kyuzo Mifune directly, he might have thought differently of judo. Well, Mifune sensei was gone by then. This was his destiny. They had en.

I have to say we get a lot of visitors at our dojo. We have a log of everyone who has trained there. From as far back as Yamada Sensei when he was like a yondan to everyone else. All styles Suzuki Sensei allows everyone to train no matter what. He has always been a very giving person when it comes to that.
... you are welcome to visit anytime. message me and I will give you my email if you would like privately about a visit.

Well, when will I get back to Hawii?

It's been many years since a Japan flight put me on hold in paradise. And I never went off Honolulu (isn't that the airport island? I'm thinking Maui doesn't have the big airport).

However, my wife and I would like to go see her parents about next May and who knows? I had a pretty good night's sleep in that airport once, Hawaiian breezes drifting through.

I understand what you mean now. Well this of course is VERY advanced and I have seen Suzuki Sensei perform and his top student Curtis Sensei and yes we have practiced it on occasion but no one really else gets it yet.

I have experienced aikinage by accident a few times in some 30 years of aikido. I did the aiki drop, where you drop in front of a shomen uchi attack and bow to the floor. We used to do that regularly, but one time it was of a different order. Just when I felt the uke about to give me her best shomen uchi, I took a half step back. This messed up her ma'ai and threw her off her plan. She scooted forward the same distance I had moved back and just as she was about to strike, I took another half step back. It was just intuition. In fact, this woman was a judo player. I don't remember what rank. So twice, very quickly, I had let her get to the edge of the attack, and moved just out of reach. The third time, she didn't wait to set, but rushed forward and I did the aiki drop.

It was weird, as if I had been stretching a rubber band--the sense of ma'ai between us was so strong--and on the third stretch, it was like she was yanked above me and went a bit beyond me. We both just flipped because the physical feeling was so tangible when we hadn't even touched. That was the only time I managed that with her even though we trained together for a few months.

Another time, a guy grabbed my wrist in a reverse grip and I started into the standard escape, but he had a pretty large hand and he was able to clamp down a grip. And I just surged into the release.

The guy came off his feet and flipped in the air and landed. We didn't have mats. Oooh!!! Fortunately, he was okay, but he didn't jump and I didn't mean to throw him. It was accidental aikinage and I never threw him like that again. I mean to say, I could not do aikinage at will, as Tohei sensei, apparently, was able to do.

One of the few times I was ever thrown by aikinage was by Murai sensei at the old yoseikan hombu. He was about 5', 100 lbs or so. Maybe less. He was very impressive in his aikido, but I just couldn't believe he could really be that good. So one day, during randori, I grabbed him by the shoulders from behind and tried to snatch him up off his feet.

And I went flying over his head, all by the power of my own grip.

That was the first time anyone really showed me that this was real. I really intended to snatch that little guy up and he sent me flying without touching me. He was a great pleasure to work out with. He was another one that laughed and smiled a lot in practice. But never over much. Just like a kind of lubricant for the group. He kept the mood from getting too serious.

Aikinage was one of the concepts that first drew me to aikido, but the yoseikan never emphasized it. Mochizuki sensei didn't trust it, I think. Rather than relying on the attacker's grip, he always got his own grip on the attacker and did something certain. So we never practiced it after the very earliest days. Murai sensei learned it directly from Morihei Ueshiba, but he was Mochizuki Minoru's student.

Seemed like Tohei was also famous for this kind of technique.

Well, thank you for the enlightenment. If it looks anything like I will pass through Hawaii next spring, I will get in touch.

Best wishes.

[Brian Owens]

...It's been many years since a Japan flight put me on hold in paradise. And I never went off Honolulu (isn't that the airport island? I'm thinking Maui doesn't have the big airport). ...

Honolulu is the big city (and the airport), on the island of Oahu.

[kimiwane]

Honolulu is the big city (and the airport), on the island of Oahu.

Right! I kept thinking Honolulu is the island and Waikiki was the city. But that's the beach.

That settles it. I need to spend more time in Hawaii.

Thanks for confirming that...

[Brian Owens]

...That settles it. I need to spend more time in Hawaii.

I've never been there.

But I used to watch Hawaii 5-0 a lot.

"Book him, Dano. Murder One."

[Utaz Suhaimi]

Of course, yes. The popularity is difficult to assess, since there is nothing really to compare it with. There are about 20 dojos in Hiroshima City and others scattered around the prefecture.

Best regards,

Dr. Goldsbury,

I read your interview with AJ. You mentioned that you trained with Aikikai Hombu shihans who visited Hiroshima and even with Shoji Nishio shihan. I read something like the trainings as much as you like with Nishio shihan were less frequent due to "politics". Is there a distinction between an Aikikai Hombu shihan and an Aikikai shihan in Japan? We, particularly who train outside Japan, feel that there is a Hombu preferred shihan and a non-preferred shihan eventhough the "shihan"ship are given by Aikikai Foundation and the "non-preferred" shihan could be higher in rank and senority.

For example in my country we are "advised" to stay away from Iwama-style and Nishio-style aikido (either trainings and in seminars) despite the fact that the instructors are legitimately recognised by Aikikai Hombu Tokyo. Those who swayed away are told that they would be barred from yudansha upgrading by Hombu dojo. In fact, there was a Malaysian student residing in Europe who took his upgrading test under the Iwama-style syllabus and the examiners included two European 6th dan recognised by Aikikai Hombu. He was told that he passed and the European Body concerned submitted his International Yudansha passport and membership card to Hombu for registration but some unseen hands in the Hombu had decided to hold back the passport. Without these documents to show, the person now is rankless in Aikikai. Another example is a senior instructor invited Ulf Evenas sensei to his dojo to teach some classes. He wrote an article about the visit and training in his dojo newsletter and submitted a copy to Hombu Tokyo. He was informed by the local Aikikai Hombu representative that he had been excommunicated.

I was told that Aikikai is an umbrella body covering a spectum of interpretations and preferred ways of doing aikido by O Sensei's direct students. It appears that some ways are much preferred than others as far as Hombu is concerned judging from the "politics" seen in my country.

Is this a global trend or just in Japan & Malaysia?

Warm regards

Suhaimi Rashid

[P Goldsbury]

To Utaz Suhaimi,

Thank you for your mail. Please be aware that my reply is made as a private individual, who has lived here for many years. It is not in any way official.

Dr. Goldsbury,

I read your interview with AJ. You mentioned that you trained with Aikikai Hombu shihans who visited Hiroshima and even with Shoji Nishio shihan. I read something like the trainings as much as you like with Nishio shihan were less frequent due to "politics".

The shihans who came/come to Hiroshima in my time here are: Shirata Rinjiro, Saito Morihiro, Yamaguchi Seigo, Arikawa Sadateru, Tada Hiroshi, and Fujita Masatake, the last four regularly for a two or three day seminar at least annually for the past thirty or forty years or so (Arikawa Sensei began coming after Yamaguchi Sensei died, so he came only for a short time; and he, too, has gone).

As for Nishio Sensei, I got to know him over the past few years but I never trained with him. There is a Nishio dojo in Hiroshima, with a long history, but I have never been there. However, my instructor colleagues in my dojo have trained with Nishio Sensei for many years and this is proving a good learning experience for me. It makes me regret that I never trained with him and that we only talked.

Is there a distinction between an Aikikai Hombu shihan and an Aikikai shihan in Japan? We, particularly who train outside Japan, feel that there is a Hombu preferred shihan and a non-preferred shihan eventhough the "shihan"ship are given by Aikikai Foundation and the "non-preferred" shihan could be higher in rank and senority.

Yes, there is a distinction. (1) If you look at the Aikikai's website, you will see a list of shihans in the Instruction Department. These form a 'core', but some of them are very 'junior'. (2) Then there are other shihans who have been members of the Instruction Department but have left to form their own organizations elsewhere. An example is Morito Suganuma, in Kyushu. (3) There are many other shihans of high rank, who were not members of the Instruction Department, but who have regularly trained at the Hombu for 40-50 years. Hiroshi Kato is an example here (4) Then there are shihans who have trained for 40-50 years, not at the Aikikai Hombu, but at their own dojos, but have maintained a strong connection with the Hombu over the years. My own teacher is an example here. (5) Then there are those instructors who live abroad, who might fill any of the above categories.
So the designation 'shihan' covers a wide range of cases and only members of categories (1), (2) and some members of category (5) can claim to be 'Hombu shihan'. I have lived here long enough to be aware of these rather fine distinctions, but I can understand the perplexity of those who live abroad, especially when having to deal with questions of 'face'.

For example in my country we are "advised" to stay away from Iwama-style and Nishio-style aikido (either trainings and in seminars) despite the fact that the instructors are legitimately recognised by Aikikai Hombu Tokyo.

Do not forget that there might be sound pedagogical reasons for this, and I myself am now seeing the truth of these in a way I did not see before.
Both Saito Sensei and Nishio Sensei placed great stress on weapons-based aikido, right from the very beginning. Of course, you can argue that ANY aikido should be weapons-based from the very beginning, but there are different interpretations of what this actually means. Nishio Sensei developed a very coherent and compelling system, which included weapons, but it is really a system, in the sense that you have to be aware of the system, in order to benefit from the various elements of the system. The system that Kisshomaru Ueshiba developed did not include weapons, even though Kisshomaru studied weapons, though only to some degree.

Of course, apart from pedagogical reasons, there might be other reasons, perhaps to do with allegiance. In aikido, allegiance takes two forms: political allegiance (being a member of an organization for the benefits it supposedly brings) and the allegiance of a student to the 'master'. I think that this is essentially a personal relationship, but it is sometimes embedded in a political relationship, and there are problems when there is a clash here.
For example, there has been mutual antagonsim between my own teacher and Nishio Sensei for many years. He regards the personal and political relationship as two sides of the same coin (other teachers might not do this): if there is a personal relationship, then this will inevitably involve certain political choices.

Those who swayed away are told that they would be barred from yudansha upgrading by Hombu dojo. In fact, there was a Malaysian student residing in Europe who took his upgrading test under the Iwama-style syllabus and the examiners included two European 6th dan recognised by Aikikai Hombu. He was told that he passed and the European Body concerned submitted his International Yudansha passport and membership card to Hombu for registration but some unseen hands in the Hombu had decided to hold back the passport. Without these documents to show, the person now is rankless in Aikikai.

There are delicate issues here. For example, I have a new student. He was recommended to me by his instructor in the US, who wrote to me. So I have precise details of the student's aikido history, present rank etc and I know that he will be with me for three years, after which he will either return to the US, or go somewhere else (he is a US Marine). So he has a temporary aikido 'home' here and I will look after him (including grades) and then send him back to his main teacher. I think the Aikikai has rules for dealing with students who are away from their home dojo (having a 'home' dojo is an important principle with the Aikikai).
I myself have come to Japan to live and I do not plan to move anywhere else. However, my teacher here consulted with my earlier teachers before allowing me to take any grades.

Another example is a senior instructor invited Ulf Evenas sensei to his dojo to teach some classes. He wrote an article about the visit and training in his dojo newsletter and submitted a copy to Hombu Tokyo. He was informed by the local Aikikai Hombu representative that he had been excommunicated.

I think this is an issue only if there are clear rules for inviting visiting shihans and these rules are disregarded. In Hiroshima, I would not dream of inviting a visiting shihan to teach in my dojo without consulting my instructor/Dojo-cho. I think that if there is a shibu-cho (branch representative), then local dojos just do not have the option of inviting outside shihans, UNLESS the shibu-cho agrees.

I was told that Aikikai is an umbrella body covering a spectum of interpretations and preferred ways of doing aikido by O Sensei's direct students. It appears that some ways are much preferred than others as far as Hombu is concerned judging from the "politics" seen in my country.

Well, an umbrella has a central stem and several 'vertical' bars connected to this central stem. There is no lateral relationship between the bars, apart from the cloth that covers the bars. In other words, being in an umbrella group does not automatically mean that there is a free flow of horizontal relationships within the umbrella group. If you continue with the metaphor, you can see that the centre has to have an equal relationship with the bars, otherwise the umbrella will not open and fullfill its function. What I am saying is that the 'umbrella' metaphor can be understood in various ways.

Is this a global trend or just in Japan & Malaysia?

I am aware that there are problems in Malaysia at present. I think it would not be appropriate to comment on these problems in an Internet discussion forum. However, you are free to contact me by private mail if you wish.

Best regards,

[Utaz Suhaimi]

Hello Dr. Goldsbury

Originally Posted by Dr. Goldbury
Thank you for your mail. Please be aware that my reply is made as a private individual, who has lived here for many years. It is not in any way official.

Thank you, Dr. Goldsbury, for your explicit reply based on an expatriate who has lived and worked in Japan for such a long time. My perplexity on the “politics” in Aikikai has much been reduced by your clear explanations:

On distinction of Aikikai Shihan

Yes, there is a distinction. (1) If you look at the Aikikai's website, you will see a list of shihans in the Instruction Department. These form a 'core', but some of them are very 'junior'. (2) Then there are other shihans who have been members of the Instruction Department but have left to form their own organizations elsewhere. An example is Morito Suganuma, in Kyushu. (3) There are many other shihans of high rank, who were not members of the Instruction Department, but who have regularly trained at the Hombu for 40-50 years. Hiroshi Kato is an example here (4) Then there are shihans who have trained for 40-50 years, not at the Aikikai Hombu, but at their own dojos, but have maintained a strong connection with the Hombu over the years. My own teacher is an example here. (5) Then there are those instructors who live abroad, who might fill any of the above categories.
So the designation 'shihan' covers a wide range of cases and only members of categories (1), (2) and some members of category (5) can claim to be 'Hombu shihan'. I have lived here long enough to be aware of these rather fine distinctions, but I can understand the perplexity of those who live abroad, especially when having to deal with questions of 'face'.

I agreed indeed that it is primary a matter of ‘face’.

On “cross-training” within Aikikai Aikido

Do not forget that there might be sound pedagogical reasons for this, and I myself am now seeing the truth of these in a way I did not see before.
Both Saito Sensei and Nishio Sensei placed great stress on weapons-based aikido, right from the very beginning. Of course, you can argue that ANY aikido should be weapons-based from the very beginning, but there are different interpretations of what this actually means. Nishio Sensei developed a very coherent and compelling system, which included weapons, but it is really a system, in the sense that you have to be aware of the system, in order to benefit from the various elements of the system. The system that Kisshomaru Ueshiba developed did not include weapons, even though Kisshomaru studied weapons, though only to some degree.

Of course, apart from pedagogical reasons, there might be other reasons, perhaps to do with allegiance. In aikido, allegiance takes two forms: political allegiance (being a member of an organization for the benefits it supposedly brings) and the allegiance of a student to the 'master'. I think that this is essentially a personal relationship, but it is sometimes embedded in a political relationship, and there are problems when there is a clash here.
For example, there has been mutual antagonism between my own teacher and Nishio Sensei for many years. He regards the personal and political relationship as two sides of the same coin (other teachers might not do this): if there is a personal relationship, then this will inevitably involve certain political choices.

Personally, I put less weight on the pedagogical reasons for the instructions/advice not to train Iwama-style or Nishio-style aikido. After all, both are just systems that lead one to the same technical and spiritual goal. Perhaps the Iwama and Nishio (and even the Ki Aikido and Yoshinkan) may offer shorter and more comprehensible paths to the students. IMO This is evident in the communications of the first generation of Aikikai shihan who had received instructions from K Tohei, Yamaguchi, Saito, Osawa, Kisshomaru in 1950s and 1960s versus subsequent generations of shihan who have/had received instructions from just one or two primary teachers.

I put more down to political allegiance; in Aikikai case, as I agree with you, is essentially a personal relationship (a student and his master or our fathers were good friends).

On gradings away from ones home dojo

There are delicate issues here. For example, I have a new student. He was recommended to me by his instructor in the US, who wrote to me. So I have precise details of the student's aikido history, present rank etc and I know that he will be with me for three years, after which he will either return to the US, or go somewhere else (he is a US Marine). So he has a temporary aikido 'home' here and I will look after him (including grades) and then send him back to his main teacher. I think the Aikikai has rules for dealing with students who are away from their home dojo (having a 'home' dojo is an important principle with the Aikikai).
I myself have come to Japan to live and I do not plan to move anywhere else. However, my teacher here consulted with my earlier teachers before allowing me to take any grades.

The world has gone much smaller since the days O Sensei traveled to Hawaii and the numbers of students who travel aboard to work and to study for periods of two to years are increasing everyday. This is probably a reason for the International Yudansha Passport issued by Hombu. I believe in the Malaysian student‘s case ‘face’ and ‘political allegiance’ were the issues.

On instructions/seminars by visiting Shihan

I think this is an issue only if there are clear rules for inviting visiting shihans and these rules are disregarded. In Hiroshima, I would not dream of inviting a visiting shihan to teach in my dojo without consulting my instructor/Dojo-cho. I think that if there is a shibu-cho (branch representative), then local dojos just do not have the option of inviting outside shihans, UNLESS the shibu-cho agrees.

There are no rules in Malaysia relating to invitations to visiting shihan/high ranking teachers to teach at ones dojo. One is expected to use ones discretion and etiquette. Normally if the visiting shihan is coming out from Japan, Hombu is informed and the information is passed down to the local Aikikai Hombu representative. The affected instructor is a dojo-cho and the status of him being “excommunicated” remains unclear until his International Yudansha passport is returned by Hombu following his recent grading by a visiting Aikikai shihan.

On Aikikai Foundation being an umbrella body

Well, an umbrella has a central stem and several 'vertical' bars connected to this central stem. There is no lateral relationship between the bars, apart from the cloth that covers the bars. In other words, being in an umbrella group does not automatically mean that there is a free flow of horizontal relationships within the umbrella group. If you continue with the metaphor, you can see that the centre has to have an equal relationship with the bars, otherwise the umbrella will not open and fullfill its function. What I am saying is that the 'umbrella' metaphor can be understood in various ways.

Thank you for the above illustration. Considering the “multitude” of personal relationships and embedded political allegiances in Aikikai, the position of being a Doshu is indeed delicate and probably explains his crop of gray hairs. I for one would happily decline his seat, I could end up bald

From a growth point of view (propagation of aikido), the numbers game requires that all the bars grow albeit at different rates. Crossing the bars is not desired and may cause ones master to lose ‘face’ in the Aikikai community.

On problems in Malaysia

I am aware that there are problems in Malaysia at present. I think it would not be appropriate to comment on these problems in an Internet discussion forum. However, you are free to contact me by private mail if you wish.

Thanks for offer.

Best regards

[EDGordon]

I've been fascinated to read this thread with so much rich information from senior aikido practicioners. Thank you for your time and contributions.

I have also practiced across the spectrum, receiving my shodan in Seidokan (a branch of what is commonly called Ki-Aikido) after a short beginning in Aikikai. I fell madly in love with Nishio style aikido, due to my sword addiction. Politics kept me away, and I never should have let them. In the meantime, I took up a sogo-budo with a focus on weapons. I still enjoy aikido and judo, with the right people, and there are many "right people" in aikido, some of the best.

This is what I miss least about aikido, the politics.
My sensei (also a public affairs geek) has an interpretation of politics:

Poly (from the Greek meaning many)
Ticks (nasty blood-sucking insects)

Threads and forums like this where everyone talks are truly wonderful.

Thank you.

Emily D-G

[aikihazen]

Sorry you stopped practice by placing personality above principle Emily. After Nishio Shihan died, things got political for a bit, but everyone is now focused on passing the flame on to a new generation. Come back soon.

William Hazen

[P Goldsbury]

So you were training in the US near the time of Osensei's death?
Were you witness to the schism, removal of Tohei's photos and such?

Of course, I never met Tohei, but when I began training, in 1975, "Aikido in Daily Life" was one of our main written references. Other than Kisshomaru Ueshiba's "Aikido", that was about all there was to read. Dynamic Sphere, of course. But Tohei's ideas were very energizing and encouraging. So I liked him, but over the years, all the talk...

I don't have anything at stake in discussions of Tohei/Aikikai, no hard preferences as to who is better, worse, right wrong, whatever. I just try to look at them all as students of Morihei Ueshiba, sharing the inspiration, each in his own way. I find all the old-timers fascinating.

Best wishes.

Although this thread is many years old and David Orange posted this in 2005, I never replied to it. I do not know why, but I need to rectify this mistake.

In all the years I knew Kisshomaru Ueshiba, he never mentioned Tohei Sensei or the split. I think that this is an example of what the Japanese call mokusatsu. In some conflicts the other side simply ceases to exist. Of course, this is not a particularly effective method of conflict resolution.

Kisshomaru Doshu visited Boston in 1974, on his way to Hawaii and there was some gossip in the dojo about why Doshu was going to Hawaii. Kanai Sensei accompanied Doshu to Hawaii and I believe was present at the meeting. Tohei Sensei's picture was never displayed at any US dojo I visited.

Later, I had a long discussion with Arikawa Sadateru Sensei in Hiroshima. He was very close to Kisshomaru Doshu and he told me how Kisshomaru had been torn apart by the split. He was Doshu and felt responsible for the whole of aikido, as an inheritance from his father (pace Amir's remarks about Korindo aikido). Of course, I am sure that Tohei Sensei was also torn between his allegiance to the Aikikai and his belief that he had to follow a certain path.

Now, on the basis of my 25 years experience in Japan, I can see that the Japanese (and especially Japanese martial arts experts) are singularly ill-equipped by their culture to deal with conflict resolution, where this does not involve actual fighting. Negotiation is almost never a meeting of equals: it is invariably a power-play between the more powerful and the less powerful, the overriding aim being to preserve the tatemae: the impression of wa or harmony. Tohei Sensei had to break the tatemae, but he also destroyed the wa. Of course he had no choice, but it was he who broke, not Kisshomaru.

An interesting comparative example is the powerplay between Minamoto Yoshitsune and Minamoto Yoritomo. Yoshitsune was hounded down by his brother Yoritomo, who became the first shogun, but it is Yoshitsune who is popularly remembered for freshness and purity of purpose, while his brother Yoritomo is remembred as the 'villain', ruthless and deadly sure of his aims, but also 'necessary' in the overall Japanese scheme of things. Similarly, Kisshomaru is remembered negatively for being the one who caused the split, i.e, who forced Tohei Sensei to act first and break away.

To Amir,
Of course you sre right. The name aikido is really a description of an art and not a proper name, like the name of a person. So I am sure that Minoru Hirai believed that the name was not tied to any particular person. Of course, this raises many questions, but I do not have the time to discuss them here. My earlier posts were based on the belief that in Japan the name is very closely tied to Morihei Ueshiba and this has been the case ever since the name was established in 1942.

To Emily DG
Thank you for your kind words about this forum and thread. Like you I think it is a good example of an open and productive Internet discussion.

Best wishes,

PAG

[EDGordon]

Sorry you stopped practice by placing personality above principle Emily.

Good gracious, I never stopped practice! I just don't do much aikido any more. In terms of personality/principle, it could be construed as such, but my decisions were frankly more circumstantial. You would have to have worn my shoes at the time, and frankly, I can't recommend them.

The principle of pure training can be more valuable than personality, so long as those training keep it so. I simply found something that filled the niche I was looking for, checked it out and stayed. I'm honestly surprised that it worked for me.
It was both far more difficult and more deeply personal.
(www.the-dojo.com is where I practice now)

I am now very careful of both the principles and people I train with.

After Nishio Shihan died, things got political for a bit, but everyone is now focused on passing the flame on to a new generation. Come back soon.
William Hazen

I'm so glad it's getting passed forward. That's what really matters. It's one of the best, as far as I'm concerned, right up there with Rocky Road ;-> .

I'm not sure I'll ever come completely back to aikido, though I keep an eye on it and try to contribute and participate when I can. Practicing with Sugano Shihan in Aspen in June, I realised that, unless there is some connection, aikido is, at best, a spectator sport for me now.

This is part of why I so appreciate the efforts of Peter Goldsbury, Stan Pranin and others who try to open the doors and keep clear the reality of the history of aikido. There's as many different interpretations as there are bodies and minds interpreting.
It's better embraced, than denied.

Looking in from the outside, it's all ice cream, but sometimes there's nuts in.

;-)
Emily D-G
(fond of butter pecan myself)

[aikihazen]

Good gracious, I never stopped practice! I just don't do much aikido any more. In terms of personality/principle, it could be construed as such, but my decisions were frankly more circumstantial. You would have to have worn my shoes at the time, and frankly, I can't recommend them.

The principle of pure training can be more valuable than personality, so long as those training keep it so. I simply found something that filled the niche I was looking for, checked it out and stayed. I'm honestly surprised that it worked for me.
It was both far more difficult and more deeply personal.
(www.the-dojo.com is where I practice now)

I am now very careful of both the principles and people I train with.



I'm so glad it's getting passed forward. That's what really matters. It's one of the best, as far as I'm concerned, right up there with Rocky Road ;-> .

I'm not sure I'll ever come completely back to aikido, though I keep an eye on it and try to contribute and participate when I can. Practicing with Sugano Shihan in Aspen in June, I realised that, unless there is some connection, aikido is, at best, a spectator sport for me now.

This is part of why I so appreciate the efforts of Peter Goldsbury, Stan Pranin and others who try to open the doors and keep clear the reality of the history of aikido. There's as many different interpretations as there are bodies and minds interpreting.
It's better embraced, than denied.

Looking in from the outside, it's all ice cream, but sometimes there's nuts in.

;-)
Emily D-G
(fond of butter pecan myself)

There are no politics without personalities I am afraid... and I am sorry I did not mean to convey that you had stopped practice entirely only our
interpretation of Aikido which is more Martial than most and does tend to bring out the "personalities" of those involved. I am stoked you found something you like and wish you all the best. Namaste'*

(*along with Aikido a great way for me to enjoy the nuts I get with every dish of ice cream)

William Hazen

[Brian Owens]

Please remember to sign all posts with your real name, as you agreed to when you joined. The easiest way is to add an auto signature in your User Control Panel.

[Ron Tisdale]

Yoshinkan in the name of a dojo...Yoshinkai is the name of an organization...

Gozo Shioda (reverse for proper Japanese order) was the founder of the dojo and organization. I believe he has more than one son...

Best,
Ron