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Thread: Is it possible to have everything in one source?

  1. #1
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    Default Is it possible to have everything in one source?

    In the popular groundfighting thread from the past few days, it seems that there are two camps. One seems to say that everything you need is already in the X-kans and that if you are no good on the ground it is because you are no good standing (similar to the belief if you are bad at weapons it is because the Taijutsu is bad). The other camp seems to say that you need to look elsewhere or at least train differently for certain things.

    I think that there is a lot of validity in the latter belief and compare it to languages.

    Imagine that you have a PhD in English and that you are extremely well read. You have a great vocabulary and command of grammar, verbs nouns, adjectives etc. etc. Your PhD supervisor is a fantastic professor with many books to his name and is widely respected as THE living expert on the English language. He has earned your trust totally.

    Now go on a vacation to Paris and try speaking there. What happens?

    Chances are that even if you pick up a few words on your first day, and even if your excellent grammar skills can help you make some sense of things, you will not get very far the first few days or weeks.

    Why is that? I mean all languages have the same essence. They all use verbs, nouns, adverbs, adjectives etc. etc. And human beings in England are basically built the same as human beings in France. When we speak, we all use lips, tongue and larynx don't we?

    Now consider what would have happened if you had been to weekly French classes for 3 months before your vaction.


    ----------------
    Braden Nicols

  2. #2
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    Default always

    There are many good points in every art.

    Some for everyone.

    The important point to being a complete student of the combative arts is to...

    #1, does your method of training or system have a gap in it that might allow you to be killed in a conflict?

    #2, come to the realization you have 4 ranges of combat.

    #3, find out if the system your are training in does not or does have 4 ranges of training and methodology to deal with conflicts.

    #4, make a choice if you really need the 4 ranges in your training or methodology to be effective, happy and healthy.

    #5, if so make a plan to change your views on the training and methodology of your views on conflicts.

    #6, if you are a professional trainer of combative arts then all of this is cut and dry.. your needs of the students over come your needs as a trainer and you MUST find out every angle to help others in any conflict they ask for or have problems with.

    #7, once you deal with this then go through the list and ask yourself the same questions with weaponry.

    I feel in the end putting aside ego and fear, you will make the correct choice where you are in your training and methodology.

    kamiyama, ralph severe
    Dallas Ninjutsu Academy
    www.artofcombat.com
    The best Japanese and Mexican Bugei in Dallas !

  3. #3
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    Default always

    The myth of cross training for the secret techniques.

    In my opinion cross training for this is not the way to go.
    Just because you train in a few arts doesn’t mean you will find the answer or does it mean you will be any better from where you started.

    The answer in my opinion is how you train from the start.

    Training techniques are silly and outdated.

    What you need is to deprogram your methodology of training to understanding the flow over techniques.

    This mainly comes from sanmitsu.

    Don’t look for what you don’t know.
    Look for the correct method of training what you have.

    I feel once you change your out look on these points you will come to realize it's not more that you need or is it complete.. but how you train what you have.

    Just another point of view..
    This goes back to the tape exchange..

    Open your ideas up to others to see if you need help or are able to help others..

    kamiyama, ralph severe
    Dallas Ninjutsu Academy
    www.artofcombat.com
    The best Japanese and Mexican Bugei in Dallas !

  4. #4
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    Default always

    This comes off my web site about this subject,


    ""I have been involved with sport and combative arts for most of my life. During this time my views and training methods have changed frequently because of my age, fitness levels and interest.
    The wonderful point of view I enjoy about being a full time student of Kamiyama Dojo ninjutsu is that it is always changing with the times and environment we live in.
    The main interest I have in Kamiyama Dojo ninjutsu is that it flows and adapts with the environment, conflict and attacker. This is where I believe I’m at right now in my personal development as a human being. In the non-technique rehearsed or programming form stage of my life.
    How many times have you personally seen students of martial arts doing techniques over natural reflective response? And how many times have you seen these same students not being able to respond to unrehearsed attacks? I to have been tapped in that mental position placing my trust in techniques against attackers and other type living conditions.
    Many martial artists have been programmed to believe that techniques and form is the key to confidence. We are programmed to believe we need to have something such as a special technique or special word or form so we can be important, more capable or at a higher level of understanding in the martial arts. I disagree. Dependency on this causes a lack of flow and understanding of nature, which is the very foundation of living skills. I feel the human being has a false confidence in techniques over natural response when techniques are a priority in their training. The methods of the Kamiyama Dojo have many different living outlines to follow. The one I enjoy the most is the sanmitsu method. It builds confidence in your personal methods of living. With confidence you begin to feel the forward motion of happiness and health living in your energy. Every thing flows smoothly with confidence.
    With the correct direction in your training methodology you can over come this programming of false confidence from techniques. In the Kamiyama Dojo methods this idea comes from failure and nature progressive drills. The point is to rid the student of the on-going frustration, confusion and lack of confidence they have with preprogram techniques by allowing him to be natural and himself. This is called going back to the ‘zero’ state of being. I have found when a student is allowed to be himself they begin to progress and to come alive with wonderful movement and skills that can be used in a stressful conflict. This is wonderful because they lose their static look and feeling to their movement and that of course allows them to progress more in their lives. ""


    kamiyama, ralph severe
    Dallas Ninjutsu Academy
    www.artofcombat.com
    The best Japanese and Mexican Bugei in Dallas !

  5. #5
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    Dear all,

    I would like to repeat what Tanemura sensei said about these things.
    In the Genbukan we have many ryuha because each of them have their strong and weak points. Some are good for short distance, others are good for weapons, etc.
    Tanemura sensei is also teaching Chinese martial arts. Especially the kinajutsu (chin na) is good for short distance.
    He once said that he could understand that you eg. study judo with your ninpo but he couldn' t understand the need to pick up boxing.
    I supose he ment that boxing was not complete enough or that we allready have all the necesary punching, kicking, blocking, etc. in our dakentaijutsu, koppojutsu and kosshijutsu.
    He also said that the grass is always greener on the other side.
    I think that it will not harm us to study other arts from video's,
    books, demo's, classes (once in a while), etc. I would also like to
    train with people form other arts. But most important of course is that we never forget about our core art ninpo.
    The more we know the better and that is very true if you are an instructor because you have the responsability to teach your
    students real things that can help them when needed.
    About the waza and kata I also think we have to keep them pure as they are handed down by our masters. It is our duty to help to preserve the tradition in it's original form.
    But we need to experiment with them also. Tanemura sensei does this through goshinjutsu. I see goshinjutsu as a testing lab. Tanemura sensei uses it to test the ability of transporting the waza, kata
    and strategies to modern day situations.

    Belgium is too far away from your place Rick and from your place too mister Severe. I would like to train with you both to learn something.

    A question for the moderators. Can you include any spellcheck possibility. This is not my native language and it's sometimes difficult to write down the words correctly.

    Sincerely yours.
    Marc Coppens
    Genbukan Tenzan dojo - Belgium
    www.tenzandojo.org

  6. #6
    Moko Guest

    Default The answer is...

    Yes. It is possible to have all the answers in one Art. HAtsumi Soke sems to think so.
    The problem is knowing what questions to ask and getting the basics wieghed off first. Too many of us want to get to the really cool stuff from the Ninjer mags and movies that we slough off the really important lessons like kamae and kukan. This gets worse if you're unlucky enough to be an Instructor. Now you're SUPPOSED to know the cool evesierating with a credit card techniques. And that's where some guys are getting confused. It seems normal and natural for Westerners. We have little patience and make bad ninja.

  7. #7
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    Dear mister Pfuetzenreuter,

    As far as I know Hatsumi sensei takes from several ryuha to make up his budo taijutsu and uses his experience with the arts he trained before he joined Takamatsu sensei. Correct me if I am wrong. So maybe it is safe to say that studying only one system like for example Koto ryu koppojutsu may not be enough to cover all aspects of combat. I believe no art has it all. Didn't they combine different arts like unarmed, sword and spear to name some in the old days. This is called sogo bujutsu.

    Sincerely,
    Marc Coppens
    Genbukan Tenzan dojo - Belgium
    www.tenzandojo.org

  8. #8
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    The more I think about it the more I realise that there is no single best martial art even though there may be a best art for a person individually. Very similar to religions I think. Everyone feels that their own religion is the best and most real, but they can't all be right or can they?
    ----------------
    Braden Nicols

  9. #9
    Moko Guest

    Default Budo

    Marc.
    I'm not sure about how much karate and judo you see in Soke's movements however I will bow to your expertise that Soke is using these sportt martial arts from your point of view. Please understand that from MY point of view he isn't using these things. It is a completly different set of skills. COMPLETLY.

    Bradenn.
    I'm so glad you have made up your mind. Enjoy your trip.

  10. #10
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    Dear all,

    I have absolutely no expertise in what Hatsumi sensei uses in his art. I only know his budo taijutsu is made up from the nine ryuha he is soke of. I read he has experience in other arts before he joined Takamatsu sensei so i suppose he maybe using principles of these arts (that's what I ment in my first post). I don't know he actually does and from what I saw in books and videos from him I can't find elements which can be labeled as pure judo, karate or others.

    Sincerely
    Marc Coppens
    Genbukan Tenzan dojo - Belgium
    www.tenzandojo.org

  11. #11
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    Default always

    Belgium is too far away from your place mister Severe. I would like to train with you both to learn something.

    kamiyama,
    Please go to my web site and check out the techniques under ninjutsu.
    The examples are clear and might give you a few outside the box pointers.
    Once the short flims go on web with Richard then you can view some of the ground combat skills with energy.
    I don't believe you will find to many of the computer experts here in those tapes. They seem to talk but not do..
    Effort is spelled in action not words...
    More or less same old BS..
    But I'm more than willing to help in any way I can.
    I have a few tricks up my leg anyway...
    Hope to hear more from you...

    Just ask.

    kamiyama, ralph severe
    Dallas Ninjutsu Academy
    www.artofcombat.com
    The best Japanese and Mexican Bugei in Dallas !

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