age for kata

[BDW]

My full name is Ben Wallace please fogive me for my lack of memory

[Shitoryu Dude]

Ben - go to your user cp and set your signature line to display your full name with each post. Forum Rules.

[Machimura]

Originally posted by Hank Irwin
Although I teach with traditional values when it comes to age & kata, I am also of the opinion that kata done properly is a beautiful and awesome thing. Age does not play a roll in that thinking. Constant repetition produces maximum results. The reasons behind kata are the basis for teaching it. To instill the technique within each kata, and provide a training regime for execution of bunkai within the physical practices of kata, work. I think otherwise kata becomes no more than a dance. I like to dance, do you? Doo Da, Doo Da!!

Hey as the kids say don't "front" on dancing! Hahahaha! Seriously though, rhythm is everything. Dictating tempo AND rhythm is everything. Music and dancing always helps, never stifles. The Okinawan fighting arts and classical arts have always been/are closely intertwined! (See Machimura's 'Bucho Ikko'). Oh, you already have? My bad. Have a great week Victor!!!

Bryan Cyr

[Hank Irwin]

Happy Easter everyone! Don't eat too many eggs,eh? I myself think all MA's should study dancing. It's a good way to let off steam and let yo' hair down. My daughter even uses kata moves sometimes in dance, subtle but there. But, some of the dance nowadays is bump and grind, grappling maybe Hahaha! But really, for the most part we need to let our kids be kids. The reality will set in way before you realize it. First they need values, then we can move on to more important things, honor,loyalty, patriotism, and a sense of duty to one's self and to others. These are things our kids need before we send them out. Too many dojo/dojang/kwoon do not instill this, many do though. The schools that are not business oriented IMO are the best places to start. I think though, education amongst parents is where it begins. heiwa everyone!!

[Markaso]

Originally posted by Hank Irwin
It's a good way to let off steam and let yo' hair down.

Please no hair jokes

Used to be I could let my har down now it only goes up and back

Well anyway Happy Easter back!!

[RobertW]

On this subject I will say this: If the student is at the right level of experience and has the right rank/# of hours training, then I will teach the next form. That is what someone's system is for. If someone wants to teach a Kata to a child so they can win at tournmaments then Karate becomes sports, and it loses its "artistic expression" The one thing I hope is that at said tournament I am not a judge because if I see that it is usually pretty obvious and I will mark it accordingly. unfortunately, I have seen a really crappy unsu win in that situation.

[Hank Irwin]

Rank has nothing to do with it nowadays. I have seen SanDans and YonDans that were no better than chudan (green/brown)deshi. Time IS the factor. If you don't have the time in, you shouldn't be learning more and more kata. Thorough study of ANY kata will take a year, and that's if you work at it EVERY day. Movement of applications should be as "fluid" as kata, with study, this takes time. I teach Ueichi-ryu Sanchin no kata as 1st kata. You study this for 6-12 months before next kata, depending on how much time you put in, in those 6-12 months. The serious student will put in a lot of time, hence, progressing faster. When I was young deshi, I couldn't get enough. I am still the same way though. Speaking of hair, I am lucky, I guess. At 47ish still have my ponytail(2'long), and head full of hair. Must be all that ginsing and Fo Ti Ting.

This thread is an important subject matter to all of us who teach kids. Too much is actually being lost to commercial values when it comes to passing down the traditions associated with teaching martial arts. Too many times martial arts are associated with Hollywood and it's glamor. That's what the general public sees. I believe that's where most of it comes from, the movies and TV. I was first fascinated with Cagney when a little kid. Can't remember the name of that damn movie though, war movie, fighting the Japs. Anyway, from there it went. I was lucky in my pursuit of a good teacher though, took me 2 trys but I found my destiny with the Sensei I have now.

Finding a good teacher for your kid is not easy, especially if you don't know what you are looking for. Martial Arts, no matter what the system, are combative in nature. Some more combative than others, depending on what you are looking for. At least with the general public becoming more internet savvy, they can find more info to help in their decision on where to take their kids. The biggest thing to remember in considering a school, is the school disciplines(school creed/kun), how they are taught to your kids, and how they are administered in class. Most schools will have them on the wall in plaque fashion and such. A parent should be involved with their childs life so, they should observe class when ever they get the chance. This is important. A parent that does not, I would be worried about that. A good Sensei will sense this also,... how much does his Dad/Mom come to class? Hmmm

I know myself, when I teach kata, it takes effort and sweat for both parties, and an obligation from the student... to practice hard, and then some. I teach NO bunkai until the student has learned the kata sufficiently, usually, maybe a year. Then I tell them when asked, "What do you think it means?" Then I show them.

[RobertW]

Mr. Irwin

I totally agree. True Karate is being lost with the Martial Arts conglomerate. The big business of Karate. Sports Karate. True Karate is not sports!

The reason I mention rank is that I try, in my Dojo at least, to match skill level and time to appropriate rank level. Although I am all to painfully aware of the lack of this elsewhere. I must say I teach a little more than one form pere year for the kids. More like two. Naihanchi first, then Pinan. In order of course. I find kids just can't take in much more. as for as Bunkai. My teacher says that ultimately, back in the day, you did'nt start learning that until you got your Shodan. At any rate, I am so busy working on basic and stances that I have little time at this point teach bunkai for my kids. A little for the adults, but that's it.

[Hank Irwin]

Ahh! Robertsan, what people want sometimes, amazes me, you know? It takes a long time, most of the time, until you find that one student. And sometimes in a long span, it's only that one student you find. My Sensei has taught 100's, yet I, and two of my brother students remain from the "Dark Days" as I will refer to them. In the early 70's we had a tribe of Shorinji Warriors. Real KarateDo takes a commitment that most do not comprehend until they are a few years into it. Most quit by the time they are Shodan, not realizing that the journey is coming, not been going on. For the most part it is a trial and error for the student up until Shodan. It took me 10 years to reach ShoDan, the old way. These days you can get Shodan in 2 years, and that's from a "traditional" school.


Robertsan, you teach Naihanchi Shodan as root kata for your system? Do you teach saika tanden principles within also? Ever hear of O'Naifanchi? Just curious. I teach Pinan Shodan 2nd, Nedan 3rd, Sandan/Wansu 4th, AnaKu/Naihanchi Sho/Matsumura non Kun Sho 5th, Seisan/Sakugawa no Kun 6th, Dai en Sho/Renai no Jo 7th(this is the time that I leave it up to the student to study another weapon, but by their choice,except kama, and sai, leaves many to choose from)This is up to brown belt level.(chudan) It will take at least 5-6 years of intensive study to achieve this. This is how it should be, at least within the principles I learned.


But the way I took is not necessarely everone else's way.



Every day, I bow before class, and I think of the one's that have gone before me, first. Heiwa