Umbrella term for Grappling?

[Shinobi]

I was wondering if there is a encompassing/umbrella term for grappling arts in Japanese MA besides Jûjutsu/Yawara/Kumiuchi.

By grappling I mean from once one engages the enemy in the various forms of a clinch (kumi-kata) to the ground (ne-waza) and everything in-between.

Kumi-kata
Kansetsu-waza
Nage-waza
Shime-waza
Kime-waza
Katame-waza
etc

Most know that most koryû grappling arts including striking. And the most common term for striking in Japanese arts is Atemi/Atemi-waza.
I was wondering if there is something similar for grappling besides Jûjutsu since it is more then a grappling art.

Any thoughts or insights?

[MarkF]

I think grappling is just fine. Another term I like is Japanese combatives. It pretty much includes all of them, and most are tai-jutsu arts, if you are speaking of jujutsu without weapons and you are narrowing it to Japanese-style combatives.

If you include a sword, perhaps "playing with pointy things" is better.


Mark

PS: It is what it is. I don't think of it as more or less than anything else in regard to Japanese-based grappling.

[Shinobi]

Ok I guess I didn't make the question clear enough!

I'm looking for a nihongo umbrella term for grappling, kumiuchi, yawara, etc.

[George Kohler]

Originally posted by Shinobi
By grappling I mean from once one engages the enemy in the various forms of a clinch (kumi-kata) to the ground (ne-waza) and everything in-between.

How about "torite?"

But, maybe your answer lies at koryu.com . There is an article called "Jujutsu and Taijutsu." It can be found "here.

[Shinobi]

Thanks George and Russ, still no umbrella term though. Its been bugging me and it seems there is no standard term for grappling only.

Even Jûdô has striking in their curriculum and its a art that I don't study so I can't label what I do in terms of grappling as jûdô.

Torite "catching the hand or seizing" is good but not overall I think. George I see Tanemura-sensei uses the term for standing grappling waza that usually leads to the groud with a kime, but sutemi-waza isn't included under torite.

I'm looking for a term that encompasses it all if you follow me. I think its gonna be hard to find a answer unfortuanatelly. If you look up wrestling in a Japanese/English dictionary they say "kumiuchi". If you look up kumiuchi it says "grappling" so I was just wondering if there was another term that defined grappling overall.

thanks again!

[CKohalyk]

Shinobi,

For modern grappling (Abu Dhabi type stuff ie Shooto w/out striking) a new term has been adopted: ƒOƒ‰ƒvƒŠƒ“ƒO?C“l?@"Grappling Shooto" or just "Grappling" for short. Since "newaza" doesn't really cover standing tackling/throwing this new term was developed.

Just a point from the modern grapplers over here.

CK

[MarkF]

Eric,
You named a number of kata and waza of judo. If you need it to be in Japanese, doesn't taijutsu or budo taijutsu cover it? I'm not referring to ninpo in any way, I just think it pretty well covers "grappling" Japanese style. There is atemi in grappling, and atemi does not strictly mean the head, arms and feet, but sometimes a crashing in, using the entire body. The most painful atemi I've experienced is, not only being thrown to the floor, but also being thrown _through_ the floor (in effect, that is). Striking with the hands and kata ate, kicking, are almost entirely used for tsukuri/kuzushi (basically the same thing) of entering and off-balancing an opponent in a more efficient manner. There is blocking atemi, block and throw atemi-waza, etcetera.

Someone once asked me for the list of dominant forms in judo. I found when I listed them (dojime, etc.) that they pretty much included all dominent forms, it was still (also) "Jacketed Wrestling" though I didn't like the term when first presented when reading Robert W. Smith's work. I also can't find anything better.

As I said, including a lot of them Japanese jacketed wrestling, budo taijutsu is not necessarily ninpo at all, and my favorite ju-do or ju-jutsu combatives are Japanese budo combatives. That pretty much includes just about anything in that folder.

I recall a story and interview of the "shihan" of a classical, or koryu jujutsu system, I think in Black Belt Magazine, ca. 1964. I cannot recall his name but I'm sure the article is archived if you want to search for it. He said: "In the first twenty or thirty years, you are really only doing budo taijutsu, and after that, you *may* be doing judo. This, of course comes at different times for different students. Jujutsu leads to the path and understanding of ju, thus ju-do."

In Japan, where this interview took place, and particularly at the Kodokan Judo Institute, and the University clubs, one is judoshugyosha until 4-dan or 5-dan. Only then, can you be considered judoka.

Over all, taijutsu does include them all, if they are unarmed, and sometimes when they are not.


Mark