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Thread: Suio-ryu iai-kenpo

  1. #16
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    Default An Answer

    Hi Sven,

    A little history. This all started about three years ago. Without getting specific I was consulted on a legal basis about the consequences of an argument that broke out between one of the head instructors of a well known Japanese karate system and one of his students in England. The student in England responded to the argument by filing for and receiving a trademark on the system's name. He then informed his instructor and his Soke that they could not use the system's name at the organization's upcoming international tournament held in ... England. What a mess, yet the student was perfectly within his LEGAL rights.

    It was then I realized that individuals with little thought or who act on a whim can exercise control over the use of a name of a tradition hundreds of years old. It was also why I initiated the filings on behalf of Katsuse Soke to trademark Suio Ryu® and Suio Ryu Iai Kenpo®. The thread about what is going on in Argentina is a perfect example as to why this was done. From what I understand the individual in question also filed for a trademark in Argentina for the term "Suio Ryu" and received it. Nothing can be done about it now. Ergo NO ONE can use the term Suio Ryu in Argentina without receiving prior permission of Mr. Cirone.* (Filing for a trademark in Argentia and Brazil was my next step, but it had to be done through an attorney. Apparently I was "beaten" to the punch.)

    "Honor" can no longer protect that which we have a name for what we do. There are too many people out there who will use the legal system to further their own interests. The only way to protect from this is the defensive use of the legal system.

    Is this the future of koryu? Probably yes. If the systems do not defend themselves someone who has never been part of the school can file for, say, "Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu" and "TSKSR" in England or France or Argentina and they WILL own the name.

    By the way, on a personaly note I literally HATED being forced to file for a trademark. In my opinion it is absolutely outrageous that anyone would claim the right to the name of a system that does not belong to them and in which they may or may not participate can yet be GRANTED a sole, defendable legal right to it.

    Disgusted by all of this,

    Brian

    ps *B - THIS is precisely why I filed for a trademark.
    Last edited by Brian Stokes; 27th February 2007 at 19:42.

  2. #17
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    Hey, Brian, just a few quick questions along these lines: first, as I understand intellectual property law in the US, wouldn't the fact that you have prior use make it difficult for some guy to trademark the name and then prevent you from using it?

    Second, just out of curiosity, would there be any intellectual property issue between you and the company that prints Lone Wolf and Cub in English? Because they've been using the term "Suio Ryu" in print for a while now

    Finally, is there any chance you could send somebody with a baby carriage down to Argentina to sort this guy out?
    David Sims

    "Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum." - Terry Pratchet

    My opinion is, in all likelihood, worth exactly what you are paying for it.

  3. #18
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    Hello Brian,

    Hope you don't mind if I jump on the "Pick the Lawyers Brain" train.

    Does it make any difference to the trademark process if the name of the system is a family name with living descedents?

    For example, would trademarking Yagyu Shinkage-ryu be any different in a legal sense than trademarking Shinto Muso-ryu?

    On a personal note, I agree that having to do this with any art is pretty disgusting. It's especially galling when practioners of the art themselves are the cannibals you are defending against. I'm just wondering if certain type of linages will have an easier time fending off the nutters than others.


    Second, just out of curiosity, would there be any intellectual property issue between you and the company that prints Lone Wolf and Cub in English? Because they've been using the term "Suio Ryu" in print for a while now
    Does it make any legal difference that Tomisaburo doesn't do anything resembling actual Suio-ryu in the movies? Is there a such thing as simply using the name for "atmosphere" rather actual verisimilitude?

    (Likewise, the Yagyu clan doesn't remotely resemble the real tradition. My jo teacher also studies Yagyu-Shinkage ryu and I try to stay away from questioning him about the "raise the evil zombie" techniques that he may have learned.)

    Thanks.

    Kevin Cantwell
    Last edited by K. Cantwell; 28th February 2007 at 02:05.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by K. Cantwell

    Does it make any legal difference that Tomisaburo doesn't do anything resembling actual Suio-ryu in the movies?
    You mean to tell me that Suio Ryu's ultimate techniques don't involve submerging yourself in the water or making use of a baby carriage equipped with spring-loaded blades? Darn. There goes my favorite misconception.
    David Sims

    "Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum." - Terry Pratchet

    My opinion is, in all likelihood, worth exactly what you are paying for it.

  5. #20
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    You mean to tell me that Suio Ryu's ultimate techniques don't involve submerging yourself in the water or making use of a baby carriage equipped with spring-loaded blades? Darn. There goes my favorite misconception.
    I haven't watched the movies in awhile, but isn't there also some "signature" noto that he does? I remember some flashy manipulation that he does all the time, but I can't remember exactly what it was.

    When my son was young, I also made him choose between a bouncy-ball and a blade of death. To my eternal shame, he chose the bouncy-ball. To add insult to injury, it was one of those bright yellow ones with the smiley face. So, instead of the two of us embarking on a mission of carnage to strike down the evil Yagyu, we go to the McDonalds Play-Place and eat Mighty Kids chicken nugget meals.

    (To tell you the truth, it may be better this way. I think he is a little ADD, and he would probably space hitting the right button at the right time, and the ninja would get me.)

    Kevin Cantwell

  6. #21
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    Default Suio Ryu Iai Kenpo USA Shibu

    Greetings all,

    We have recently begun revising our website to include location information for each branch dojo in the Suio Ryu Iai Kenpo USA Shibu.

    http://suioryu-usa.org/dojo.html

    This would include Anaheim and Irvine in Southern California; San Francisco, California; Pawtucket, Rhode Island; Grove City, Ohio; Omaha, Nebraska; and Sequim, Washington.

    The Suio Ryu is one of the few extant koryu, or ancient systems of martial arts, practiced today. It was founded around 1600 by Mima Yoichizaemon Kagenobu, and has followed the traditional method of oral transmission. Today, the head of the Suio Ryu is Katsuse Yoshimitsu Kagehiro, who lives and teaches in Shizuoka City (formerly Shimizu city) in Shizuoka prefecture in Japan

    For more information on Suio Ryu Iai Kenpo in the United States, visit our website at:

    http://suioryu-usa.org/
    Britt Nichols
    Suio Ryu Iai Kenpo® USA Shibu

    AiTe wa Baka Ja Nai

  7. #22
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    Suio Ryu® and Suio Ryu Iai Kenpo® are trademarks of the Suio Ryu Iai Kenpo®, Japan


    Brian Stokes
    Suio Ryu® San Diego Shibu

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