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Thread: Daito-ryu Saigo-ha Shodokai / Shukikan (Sogawa Kazuoki)

  1. #46
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    Me? I have never experienced Okamoto's technique. I just wanted to flag the obvious Saigo Ryu name.
    John Connolly

    Yamamoto Ha Fluffy Aiki Bunny Ryu

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Connolly
    Me? I have never experienced Okamoto's technique. I just wanted to flag the obvious Saigo Ryu name.
    Is this a problem with what people now are calling Saigo Ha or all of it in general? As far as I could tell doing research online about aiki jujutsu I obviously know it links to the Takeda clan but came across a lot of places claiming that it was also known as Saigo-Ha, Takeda-Ryu and then Daito-Ryu. Some even claim it goes back to Emperor Senwa Tenno. If this is an incurect history could someone please point me to somewhere I can find better information. I take Aiki Budo classes and would like to learn more about the history.

    ________________
    Ray Bellville

  3. #48
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    Ray,

    If you do a quick search of e-budo for Saigo ha or Takeda ryu, you will find much to be disappointed about.
    John Connolly

    Yamamoto Ha Fluffy Aiki Bunny Ryu

  4. #49
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    I received the book yesterday and i do find the title of the book misleading,since it contains no aiki no jutsu at all;it's foremost a jujutsu book.It does depict interesting locks and diagrams though,and contains some pressure-point stuff as well.

    So it's a nice book if you like intricate and sometimes artfull locking an throwing,but not aikijutsu
    Thomas Ossel

    Daito ryu aikijujutsu roppokai

  5. #50
    Mekugi Guest

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    There's another, bigger book out there as well called "Daito Ryu Hiden Daikan." It has pretty much everything you ever want to know (or didn't want to know) about Saigo ha Daito ryu.

  6. #51
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    Default Kazuoki Sogawa - Saigo ha

    I have read a number of threads regarding the questioning of his lineage as well as a number of threads on the various products (books/videos) he has offered. I have seen comment on a few occasions that his waza looks like aikido. My question is has anyone ever experienced his waza? Or does anyone have any suggestion as to where his skills base and curriculum come from?

    I don't think this is beating a dead horse but if it is I apologize.

    Thanks
    Jeff
    Jeff Brown

  7. #52
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    Hello,

    I haven't felt his techniques, but I've seen his videos and books, and would say it is founded in or at least heavily influenced by Aikikai Aikido. Although I haven't felt his techniques, I can make a pretty educated guess what they would feel like based on what I've seen, and my guess is it feels like fairly average aikido. He has added ground locking techniques, and made various other changes and additions, but the taisabaki is distinctly aikido (which is almost nothing like what I've seen of Daito-ryu).

    I'm going to merge this with the exising thread..

    Regards,
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

  8. #53
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    Default Update

    Those interested in this subject, please see the following thread with my post from 08-27-07:

    Saigo Shiro (aka: Shida Shiro) / "Yama arashi"

    Regards,
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

  9. #54
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    I have one of the Sogawa sensei's Daito-ryu seminar video, and I think I saw Omiya Shiro (famed author of "Hidden Roots of Aikido") in it..
    Ben Haryo (This guy has low IQ and uses a dialect which vaguely resembles Bad English).

  10. #55
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    Here is a clip I found on youtube of the group in questions. There are a couple of other clips posted by the same Youtube user.

    Jeff

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDnTFL5rZmg
    Jeff Brown

  11. #56
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    Default Wow

    I'll say this the guys Uki seems very good and he just keeps getting up and coming at the guy , I'm impressed with just that.
    James L. Fitzgerald
    Senso Ryu (99/03)
    Hakuho ryu Indy study group
    http://thejumonkan.webs.com

  12. #57
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    Default Wha?

    Not so much with the connection based on that clip.

    Quote Originally Posted by someguy View Post
    I'll say this the guys Uki seems very good
    Floating or did you mean uke?

    Be well,
    Jigme
    Jigme Chobang Daniels
    aoikoyamakan at gmail dot com

  13. #58
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    Default Daito Ryu Saigo Ha Shukikan curriculum

    Hello all,
    I thinking of purcasing a set of DVD's titled "Head of Saigo Ha Daito Ryu Aikibujutsu, Kazuoki Sogawa covers all aspects of the Daito Ryu Saigo Ha Shukikan curriculum in this 5 part series". Purely for research purposes and to add to my collection. I was wondering if anyone has viewed these vids and what their opinion of them is? I was also hoping that someone could verify that they are coming from an authentic Daito Ryu source, or are authentic Daito Ryu techniques. I am aware that there appears to be some issues relating to the lineage of this school, however this does not concern me as lineage seems to be an issue in many schools, not least my own. Many thanks in advance.
    Sean Halpin

  14. #59
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    Here's a link to a previous e-budo thread discussing that group:

    http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1856

    The consensus opinion seems to be

    1) no one can vouch for their history
    2) their techniques look a little bit off (I think in one post Nathan Scott describes it as looking like standard Aikido with a few of the Takumakai's leg lock techniques grafted on).

    I was thinking about buying some of their stuff just to round out my collection, but a senpai whose opinion I trust advised me to save my money.
    David Sims

    "Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum." - Terry Pratchet

    My opinion is, in all likelihood, worth exactly what you are paying for it.

  15. #60
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    Thanks for the information, I think I will pass on the DVD's. Sorry for ressurecting this.
    Sean Halpin

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