To Block or not to block, That is the question !

[gmanry]

I don't really want to get into a discussion of what kata does and doesn't do. That has been beat to death with this crowd.

I will say this, some of the kata I practice is fairly (note I said fairly) explicit about footwork. However, it is kata, which to me is an archiving device and not necessarily the end all, be all of fighting.

Also, I don't preserve kata to the degree that some traditionalists desire. After having done them for some years, I let my movement become more natural. I actually let my footwork drift along more natural lines. Of course, I only practice about 3 kata even remotely regularly these days and they are not classical kata. Just another tool, and I just enjoy doing them from time to time.

I think we all know what everyone's opinions are on kata, kind of a waste of time to watch everyone thump their bibles.

[Bustillo, A.]

Originally posted by gmanry
Antonio,
I think you need to go back and actually read my posts, but then I have noticed that reading other people's posts from start to finish has not always been your strong point (just giving you sh*T, don't sweat it).

No sweat.
Tools are important. When it comes to fighting scenarios, I merely pointed out an example, taken from your description of your TKD match, that the way one goes about analyzing is important.

-------------------------------------------------------
(Glen M. wrote.)
"For the truly geeky, one could even set this up in an excel spreadsheet and run iterations, you will get the same base results over and over."
--------------------------------------------------------0

In that case, for the purpose of fighting, that tool goes in the wrong direction.

I guess my strong point is that I'm not a geek and I would never think of coming up with your suggestion.

[gmanry]

Hey man, geeks have their positive attributes. For instance, trivial pursuit...

The fact is, have the stuff in your house wouldn't exist if not for geeks. Now, I am a geek who is in really good shape and fights pretty damn well, if I may say so. So, my strength is I am tough AND I can think... .

Actually, putting stuff into iterations in engineering, computer science, etc. lets you see things you would never think of, but that do happen. I wouldn't make it the focus of a class on the mat, but I might come up with an interesting training scenario because of it. To each their own.

[Jay Vail]

Cheers, Prince Loeffler.

May I suggest several possible ways for dealing with a roundhouse kicker that I have used over the years to good effect.

As you note, tai sabaki, while great, is often hard to do. Here are a few ideas.

1. Kick to the groin, if it is allowed, as he kicks. Watch the opponent, see that he is a roundhouse kicker, invite a head kick, and shoot a side kick at his groin. (This also works against a side kicker.) I was reminded of this lesson very forcefully years ago. As a newly minted TKD black belt, I switched styles to Cuong Nhu. In one sparring session, I was parred with a brown belt, Vu Trihn, who is now a well know sensei in our system. I was used to throwing lots of high head roundhouse kicks. After the third or fourth one, he whacked me in the groin so hard I had to sit down. (I would add that Vu doesn't stand taller than my shoulder.)

2. Spinning back kick. Start same as before. Watch the opponent to see how he likes to kick. If a round kicker, he will often throw kicks to the air or kicks you can dodge trying to feel you out. Invite the kick by leaving an opening (usually the head). As soon as he moves, spin and throw the back kick. This should be a true back kick and not a side kick (although I have used a hook as well). It must come off the floor, rising as a back kick does. When it is done properly, it is hard to block and often scores. It can, however, be jammed by the forearms across the chest/stomach. It is useful to follow up with hands at that point if he is not defeated by the kick. He will be unprepared to deal with the hand follow up.

3. Back fist. As before, invite the kick. As he throws it, move forward and to the side, pivoting on the leading leg, and shoot a backfist at his head as he goes by you. This is more dangerous that a kicking response. Follow up after the backfist; it can often miss, but it is often very surprising and threatening. I once had a guy duck so forcefully to avoid the backfist that he fell down.

4. Catch the kicking leg. This is best done with a bit of sideways or even forward movement, but does not require it. Your defense is thus: your lead hand covers the head and the rear hand the body, so that they form an X or funnel with the lead hand up and the rear hand down. As the kicking leg makes contact, you fold your arms around it, trapping it. Follow up immediately with a throw, or lock the leg joint. This catch is hard to do, but often so surprises the opponent that he is unprepared to respond. But don’t count on him being inactive. I have had guys drill me in the head with a lead hand back fist after I have so artfully caught their leg and have been slow on the follow up.

5. Preempt his kicking attack with your own. I have found it tiring and rather unproductive to trade kicks against a kicker. Many people will react to a kick defensively and very successfully. For those whose defense is not to run, but who stand and block, you can do this: fake a roundhouse to the body or groin. The fake should whip out without power and you should be careful not to over commit it or allow yourself any backward lean. Remember, it is a feint and not a true blow. But it must appear to be a true blow. It should also have forward movement, a slight hop of skip. Snap it back, and continue your forward movement following up with an aggressive hand attack.

I hope this is helpful.

Yours in karate, JV

[bruceb]

There are parrys...

There are redirections ...

There are strikes....


But there are no blocks in karate .... unless you are looking to injury yourself?

Kicks? Well, that is a matter of learning reflex timeing to parry, redirect,or strike. In essence, if there are kicks, then there is imbalance present, and in the openings that present imbalance there is opportunity.

A person who is great at kicking has to be twice as fast because of the time it takes to present the kick and recover. This means, one should work on timeing to become as fast or faster than the kicker without kicking. When that happens .... there are more opportunities, aren't there?

As far as learning blocks .... forget about it, they are not blocks. Stop thinking in those terms because it is a dead end.

[CEB]

Originally posted by bruceb
...
But there are no blocks in karate ....

These statements of the absolute nature of Karate is based on what karate training? Who is your teacher? What is your rank? After all you present us with words that posess an authoritarian feel. We know you are a beginning grade student in Aikido. I'm curious what your karate background is since you seem to think you have a grasp on its true nature. Thank you for sharing with us.

[Gene Williams]

Jay, There are no "fake" techniques in true karate. Everything is thrown to hit. Tournaments teach terrible habits and strategy, which is why I quit participating years ago. If you want to use point sparring in a beneficial way, quit doing the hook kicks, spinning kicks, and quick point getting techniques like front foot roundhouse (a worthless technique) and silly little back fists and limit your techniques to what would also be strong in combat...lunge punch, reverse punch, front kick, and maybe a foot sweep or two followed by strong punches. You won't impress as many girls and junior students, you won't win as many trophies, and you won't get featured in Black Belt Magazine, but you will be a much better karateka and might even be able to defend yourself against a real opponent in the street. They do not fake, either. Gene

[gmanry]

Actually, I found that a lunge punch worked great in the few point tournaments I did a few years back. Unfortunately, they tend to make your ignorant opponents head snap back (because they don't really understand distance) and you get penalties. However, it is clear from observers who was winning the match based on hits and skill.

So, conceivably, a tournament could be a place to find lots of willing dummies to practice your more traditional techniques. You would have to be willing to put up with the incredibly biased judging you receive and all the dorks flipping their bo around like band majorettes...

[bruceb]

I see the moderator has split 'no blocks' off into another thread, we shall pursue this matter over at the new thead, Mr. Ed Boyd, CEB.